Trades and UFA’s - Trade Deadline Edition

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SprDaVE

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Sep 20, 2008
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Sure glad we have a real hockey man in charge to make sure he signs Ryan Reaves as his priority of the off-season.

I can't wait to see what kind of rabbit he can pull out of the hat to make sure this team doesn't tail spin to crap.
 

dubplatepressure

Registered User
Jul 10, 2007
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Wasn't Columbus supposed to be shopping D for a while now? Seems like there could be something there. We don't have the depth to replace Lilly with Timmons also down, and Gio isn't capable of increased minutes. Something has to give.
 
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WTFMAN99

Registered User
Jun 17, 2009
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Wasn't Columbus supposed to be shopping D for a while now? Seems like there could be something there. We don't have the depth to replace Lilly with Timmons also down, and Gio isn't capable of increased minutes. Something has to give.

I'm guessing Kokkonen is coming up next?
 
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horner

Registered User
May 22, 2007
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Trade Jarnkrok and Kampf for picks

If Calgary is going to burn it down

Anderson signed for 3 yrs
for
1st ( 2024) + 3rd + Niemela + Robertson
This proposal Is just for Anderson


or
Zadorov
or
Tanev

Jake McBain would you trade
3rd + Minten for him
 
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Fogelhund

Registered User
Sep 15, 2007
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Reaves rugged
Phil soft

Haven't you heard? Our entire bottom needs to be mean mugs, that's our problem :laugh:

I’d like a rugged team, who can play hockey.

But we don’t have a rugged team, and there is no place for a guy who can’t play hockey. If we are going to be skilled and soft, might as well be that top to bottom.

Be something.. this is just a cobbled mess right now.
 

uncleben

Global Moderator
Dec 4, 2008
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Acton, Ontario
Trade Jarnkrok and Kampf for picks

If Calgary is going to burn it down

Anderson signed for 3 yrs
for
1st ( 2024) + 3rd + Niemela + Robertson
or
Zadorov
or
Tanev

Jake McBain would you trade
3rd + Minten for him
I like Andersson and Zadorov but Tanev is a big no
Look how quickly people soured on McCabe not being a top D at $2M cap hit.
Tanev at $4.5M (or even a retained $2.25M) and the cost a 1st, two of our top prospects and a 3rd is going to age horribly.
He'll block shots, sure, but his defensive play is not much better than anything we already have. A few games of Tanev's turnovers and I'm sure the fanbase will just be looking to buy the next defenseman on the market.


The price in general too... oof. Half the fanbase is still complaining about Dubas because he brought in players they wanted but got rid of picks and prospects. The other half is trying to trade out the leftovers we have lol
You've got to give to get and Andersson at 2 more years remaining is a good buy, but I'd be wary about the price for a rental. They really need to change our game for the better at that price
 

Fogelhund

Registered User
Sep 15, 2007
23,454
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Trade Jarnkrok and Kampf for picks

If Calgary is going to burn it down

Anderson signed for 3 yrs
for
1st ( 2024) + 3rd + Niemela + Robertson
or
Zadorov
or
Tanev

Jake McBain would you trade
3rd + Minten for him

Why does Arizona do that trade though?
 

ACC1224

Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
Aug 19, 2002
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I’d like a rugged team, who can play hockey.

But we don’t have a rugged team, and there is no place for a guy who can’t play hockey. If we are going to be skilled and soft, might as well be that top to bottom.

Be something.. this is just a cobbled mess right now.
Pretty good summary of this team. :thumbu:
 

Americanadian

Registered User
Sep 11, 2016
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Michigan
Jarnkrok played a decent game last night. He’s the least of my worries.

Klingberg, Kampf, Reaves, Bertuzzi, Domi…. Happy to fire them into the sun.

The challenge is who would take them, and what do we have left in assets to obtain gains.

Free players include Kane, Phil and Comtois.
As of right now both of Domi, Bertuzzi are dispensable but I'd lean towards keeping Bertuzzi because there's a good chance that he's still a good player and his playoff numbers have been great at every level. Jarnkrok is dispensable to me because we know who he is in the playoffs and that's a nothing player. Arguably below replacement level.
 

TMLAM34

Registered User
Oct 15, 2020
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I’d definitely keep Bertuzzi, yes he’s off to a slow start but he’s too good to be this bad for very long. I’m sure he’ll turn it around.

Domi on the other hand has been completely useless.

Domi and Kampf combined make 5.4 million. Robertson or McMann would easily replace what Domi has brought to this point leaving around 4.5 million to spend on a third line center and we’d instantly be better IMO.
 
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TMLAM34

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Oct 15, 2020
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With Liljegren getting injured and most likely missing significant amount of time, I think it’s definitely time to call Columbus and make a deal for Peeke.
 
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Dragao6

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Dec 25, 2013
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What ever happened to this Niemela prospect everyone here keeps bragging about
If he’s that good and our d is that bad how is he not getting a look???
 
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weems

Registered User
Jul 3, 2008
18,635
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I’d like a rugged team, who can play hockey.

But we don’t have a rugged team, and there is no place for a guy who can’t play hockey. If we are going to be skilled and soft, might as well be that top to bottom.

Be something.. this is just a cobbled mess right now.

Good post.
It feels like we'll need a reset/retool to get to that sweet spot of being a well balanced team that can play whichever style is needed to win 1 game.
 
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WTFMAN99

Registered User
Jun 17, 2009
34,208
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What ever happened to this Niemela prospect everyone here keeps bragging about
If he’s that good and our d is that bad how is he not getting a look???
Needs a little bit to adapt to North America and you need a role for him.

He's not a defensive type guy, we still have Rielly and Klingberg healthy.
 

Fogelhund

Registered User
Sep 15, 2007
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Meandering complaining.

Say what you want about Dubas, but he went out and found pieces that fit together. He found guys who could work with Kampf, and maximize what that line could do. He found Hyman and Bunting, who worked with, and helped make Marner and Matthews better. He found Brodie, and Muzzin, brought in Schenn... all good pieces, that helped us play together better. Most often, the pieces he added, fit with what he had, and worked.

I'm not saying he was great, or perfect, clearly we didn't achieve the goals we set out to, and gave away a lot of picks and futures.. particularly for failing to achieve the goals.... But, the parts he had, he founds ways to bring in new parts that helped. Sure, plenty of flaws too, and goals not achieved... There was a plan.

But this guy, he's just assembled people. He paid Kampf probably too much, and then gave the team players that don't particularly work with Kampf... I mean... if you are going to pay a 3rd/4th line C like that, at least find some complimentary pieces, that maximize your investment....

Reaves... ah... F it... that's been done to death... we all know.

There is no plan here.... none... Ok, Acciari and Schenn got overpaid... but they were two guys, we probably should have tried to sign before UFA... tried to get back... they had some identity, and made the team better. It just felt like we didn't even try to bring them back.

I honestly have no idea what this guy is doing... and I look at Calgary, and the mess they are in... and that's his mess too.

Ultimately it speaks to Shanahan.... and it also speaks to our core. There is just a lack of fight here... I don't mean just "fighting"... but these guys... they don't show up when they are needed the most, they don't support each other, no pushback, no fight to win... whatever the costs are. For a time... you go, well, they are young it's taken others years to learn, but I don't see any learning either...

We can criticize Dubas, Keefe and Treliving and Shanahan... and there are good reasons for each of them to be criticized.. but at the end of the day, you play the cards you are dealt with, and try to make the best of it. If your cards are guys who just don't have the full winning mentality, then you aren't going to win... and that's just kind of that. It doesn't matter who you surround them with, which coach, which GM, which supporting players... and it isn't even about the contracts either.. give them slightly better supporting cast, and they still are the guys who aren't there when it counts, in any way, shape or form.

The players are the guys on the ice.... scoring when they need to, supporting each other when they need to... and winners win, and losers don't.... At some point, our losses aren't because Reaves was a bad signing... Our playoff losses aren't because Holl and Kerfoot weren't good enough.... It's the same every single game, every single season, and every single playoffs... we lost, because the core wasn't good enough, or didn't show up that day. I think I'd keep Nylander, but Matthews and Marner... I don't think we win with them... Your leaders and best players set the tone... what tone exactly are they setting?
 
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weems

Registered User
Jul 3, 2008
18,635
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Meandering complaining.

Say what you want about Dubas, but he went out and found pieces that fit together. He found guys who could work with Kampf, and maximize what that line could do. He found Hyman and Bunting, who worked with, and helped make Marner and Matthews better. He found Brodie, and Muzzin, brought in Schenn... all good pieces, that helped us play together better. Most often, the pieces he added, fit with what he had, and worked.

I'm not saying he was great, or perfect, clearly we didn't achieve the goals we set out to, and gave away a lot of picks and futures.. particularly for failing to achieve the goals.... But, the parts he had, he founds ways to bring in new parts that helped. Sure, plenty of flaws too, and goals not achieved... There was a plan.

But this guy, he's just assembled people. He paid Kampf probably too much, and then gave the team players that don't particularly work with Kampf... I mean... if you are going to pay a 3rd/4th line C like that, at least find some complimentary pieces, that maximize your investment....

Reaves... ah... F it... that's been done to death... we all know.

There is no plan here.... none... Ok, Acciari and Schenn got overpaid... but they were two guys, we probably should have tried to sign before UFA... tried to get back... they had some identity, and made the team better. It just felt like we didn't even try to bring them back.

I honestly have no idea what this guy is doing... and I look at Calgary, and the mess they are in... and that's his mess too.

Ultimately it speaks to Shanahan.... and it also speaks to our core. There is just a lack of fight here... I don't mean just "fighting"... but these guys... they don't show up when they are needed the most, they don't support each other, no pushback, no fight to win... whatever the costs are. For a time... you go, well, they are young it's taken others years to learn, but I don't see any learning either...

We can criticize Dubas, Keefe and Treliving and Shanahan... and there are good reasons for each of them to be criticized.. but at the end of the day, you play the cards you are dealt with, and try to make the best of it. If your cards are guys who just don't have the full winning mentality, then you aren't going to win... and that's just kind of that. It doesn't matter who you surround them with, which coach, which GM, which supporting players... and it isn't even about the contracts either.. give them slightly better supporting cast, and they still are the guys who aren't there when it counts, in any way, shape or form.

The players are the guys on the ice.... scoring when they need to, supporting each other when they need to... and winners win, and losers don't.... At some point, our losses aren't because Reaves was a bad signing... Our playoff losses aren't because Holl and Kerfoot weren't good enough.... It's the same every single game, every single season, and every single playoffs... we lost, because the core wasn't good enough, or didn't show up that day. I think I'd keep Nylander, but Matthews and Marner... I don't think we win with them... Your leaders and best players set the tone... what tone exactly are they setting?

Yep your star players are the ones who set the culture and the ones who spend the most time on the ice and the ones you need to routinely come through consistently in big spots if you want to win a championship.

It feels like our fanbase and management to this point have tried extremely hard to ignore the shortcomings of the core or even the 4 forwards and 1 D setup but it's becoming more and more clear that this group of players and this design isn't leading to the levels of dominance it should and what were the expectations from the start.
 

horner

Registered User
May 22, 2007
8,612
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I like Andersson and Zadorov but Tanev is a big no
Look how quickly people soured on McCabe not being a top D at $2M cap hit.
Tanev at $4.5M (or even a retained $2.25M) and the cost a 1st, two of our top prospects and a 3rd is going to age horribly.
He'll block shots, sure, but his defensive play is not much better than anything we already have. A few games of Tanev's turnovers and I'm sure the fanbase will just be looking to buy the next defenseman on the market.


The price in general too... oof. Half the fanbase is still complaining about Dubas because he brought in players they wanted but got rid of picks and prospects. The other half is trying to trade out the leftovers we have lol
You've got to give to get and Andersson at 2 more years remaining is a good buy, but I'd be wary about the price for a rental. They really need to change our game for the better at that price
The 1st a 3rd and prospects were for Anderson NOT Tanev or Zadorov
 
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WTFMAN99

Registered User
Jun 17, 2009
34,208
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Meandering complaining.

Say what you want about Dubas, but he went out and found pieces that fit together. He found guys who could work with Kampf, and maximize what that line could do. He found Hyman and Bunting, who worked with, and helped make Marner and Matthews better. He found Brodie, and Muzzin, brought in Schenn... all good pieces, that helped us play together better. Most often, the pieces he added, fit with what he had, and worked.

I'm not saying he was great, or perfect, clearly we didn't achieve the goals we set out to, and gave away a lot of picks and futures.. particularly for failing to achieve the goals.... But, the parts he had, he founds ways to bring in new parts that helped. Sure, plenty of flaws too, and goals not achieved... There was a plan.

But this guy, he's just assembled people. He paid Kampf probably too much, and then gave the team players that don't particularly work with Kampf... I mean... if you are going to pay a 3rd/4th line C like that, at least find some complimentary pieces, that maximize your investment....

Reaves... ah... F it... that's been done to death... we all know.

There is no plan here.... none... Ok, Acciari and Schenn got overpaid... but they were two guys, we probably should have tried to sign before UFA... tried to get back... they had some identity, and made the team better. It just felt like we didn't even try to bring them back.

I honestly have no idea what this guy is doing... and I look at Calgary, and the mess they are in... and that's his mess too.

Ultimately it speaks to Shanahan.... and it also speaks to our core. There is just a lack of fight here... I don't mean just "fighting"... but these guys... they don't show up when they are needed the most, they don't support each other, no pushback, no fight to win... whatever the costs are. For a time... you go, well, they are young it's taken others years to learn, but I don't see any learning either...

We can criticize Dubas, Keefe and Treliving and Shanahan... and there are good reasons for each of them to be criticized.. but at the end of the day, you play the cards you are dealt with, and try to make the best of it. If your cards are guys who just don't have the full winning mentality, then you aren't going to win... and that's just kind of that. It doesn't matter who you surround them with, which coach, which GM, which supporting players... and it isn't even about the contracts either.. give them slightly better supporting cast, and they still are the guys who aren't there when it counts, in any way, shape or form.

The players are the guys on the ice.... scoring when they need to, supporting each other when they need to... and winners win, and losers don't.... At some point, our losses aren't because Reaves was a bad signing... Our playoff losses aren't because Holl and Kerfoot weren't good enough.... It's the same every single game, every single season, and every single playoffs... we lost, because the core wasn't good enough, or didn't show up that day. I think I'd keep Nylander, but Matthews and Marner... I don't think we win with them... Your leaders and best players set the tone... what tone exactly are they setting?

Lots of problems...

I mean we did need to get out of a lot of Dubas's problems such as Mrazek and Ritchie

We all know about Reaves

The defense didn't make sense... sign Gus for a fraction of what Klingbeg makes and keep Schenn, even at his current price, he brings so many elements of what we need.

3C is a problem or the bottom 6 is in general

I think we all thought Bertuzzi was gonna be a great fit but it's not.

I really want to see this roster with a different head coach and it would make life a lot easier because then you really know what you need to do.
 

pspot

Registered User
Dec 20, 2004
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Kitchener
funny thing is these problems aren't knew, they've changed the supporting cast a few times now but i feel like we've been talking about D, G, and team toughness for 4 or 5 years now
 
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kb

Registered User
Aug 28, 2009
15,311
21,867
Lots of problems...

I mean we did need to get out of a lot of Dubas's problems such as Mrazek and Ritchie

We all know about Reaves

The defense didn't make sense... sign Gus for a fraction of what Klingbeg makes and keep Schenn, even at his current price, he brings so many elements of what we need.

3C is a problem or the bottom 6 is in general

I think we all thought Bertuzzi was gonna be a great fit but it's not.

I really want to see this roster with a different head coach and it would make life a lot easier because then you really know what you need to do.
Do those moves have any relevance whatsoever to the big picture? Ritchie and Mrazek? They got Lyubushkin and Minten for them.

This is getting rather petty if you think those moves set the team back.
 

The Management

Registered User
Jun 8, 2009
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... but at the end of the day, you play the cards you are dealt with, and try to make the best of it...

Yeah, this is what I've always said as well.

Matthews, Marner, and Nylander were all the right picks at the time they were made, and they've been every bit as good as you hope for in the skill department. Rebuilding teams can only hope they land three players with that kind of talent in their top ten / top five selections. It could've been Dylan Strome instead of Mitch Marner, or Jake Virtanen instead of William Nylander.

But it's like that Jean-Luc Picard quote: "It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose." You can draft the best player, or trade for the best supporting pieces, but it's a competitive league and the team across the hall doesn't care how many individual trophies you've won or records you've broken. The playoffs are a different road, and for better or worse, we go where our best players drive us.

Trying to forcibly nail grit and leadership onto the edges of this hockey club never worked under Kyle Dubas, and I'm not sure it going to work under Brad Treliving, if the performance of the recent signings are any indication. I think you just hope, some postseason, they figure it out and everything clicks at the same time. Lightning in a bottle.
 

WTFMAN99

Registered User
Jun 17, 2009
34,208
12,348
Yeah, this is what I've always said as well.

Matthews, Marner, and Nylander were all the right picks at the time they were made, and they've been every bit as good as you hope for in the skill department. Rebuilding teams can only hope they land three players with that kind of talent in their top ten / top five selections. It could've been Dylan Strome instead of Mitch Marner, or Jake Virtanen instead of William Nylander.

But it's like that Jean-Luc Picard quote: "It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose." You can draft the best player, or trade for the best supporting pieces, but it's a competitive league and the team across the hall doesn't care how many individual trophies you've won or records you've broken. The playoffs are a different road, and for better or worse, we go where our best players drive us.

Trying to forcibly nail grit and leadership onto the edges of this hockey club never worked under Kyle Dubas, and I'm not sure it going to work under Brad Treliving, if the performance of the recent signings are any indication. I think you just hope, some postseason, they figure it out and everything clicks at the same time. Lightning in a bottle.

I agree with all of this but at the same time, there have been times to make a big addition or big change and through the early days, Dubas never seemed interested in even entertaining a thing which doesn't help at all.
 

kb

Registered User
Aug 28, 2009
15,311
21,867
I agree with all of this but at the same time, there have been times to make a big addition or big change and through the early days, Dubas never seemed interested in even entertaining a thing which doesn't help at all.
Then Dubas goes to Pitts and immediately gets Karlsson in a big deal.

I pretty sure you might be pointing the finger at the wrong person here.....but keep at it!! It's been long known that Shanny wanted no part of trading the core.
 

BertCorbeau

F*ck cancer - RIP Fugu and Buffaloed
Jan 6, 2012
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I think the reason is obvious as to why Dubas left when Shanny wouldn't give him the autonomy he asked for in roster decision.

Says a lot, really.

I think @Fogelhund hammered the nail on the head though about it, really well summarized IMO. The only thing he didn't mention is bringing in Tavares as well to solidify the 1-2 centre punch. And while JT, production wise, has been quite strong (not $11 mill AAV strong) but he has remained highly productive, his leadership as captain has been forgettable.
 
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