Trades and UFA’s - Trade Deadline Edition

[LeafParade]

Isn’t he a repeated healthy scratch?

He is either 1st pairing RHD or scratched.
Preds fans find it amusing. I think he played on the 1st pair last game again.

 

[Malachi Crunch]

I'd like to go the Artem Zub route. A name not mentioned here.

Ottawa is a mess right now, players want out. He's a RD with term that plays the right way. I think he can bring a lot to the table.

Zub would be amazing. A big RHD who can pair up with Rielly. He has a lot of term and comes at a pretty good price (4.6 million). The question is what would Ottawa want? I'm thinking a 1st and Minten or Grebyonkin?

 

[Fogelhund]

Teams usually don't "wax poetically" about irrelevant, worthless prospects, or talk about how they extensively scouted and targeted them. His offensive potential hasn't really changed. He had the same lack of production in lower leagues pre-draft. He was drafted for his defense and PK ability, and he's coveted now for his defense and PK ability. Whatever loss of belief in offensive potential would be outweighed by him proving his defensive potential in higher leagues.

I mean, this is a perfect example of the phenomenon. People go crazy over a shiny late 1st. But put together a package equal to a late 1st, by utilizing prospects, and people find reasons to devalue and dismiss them, and then act like it's paying less.

I assume you mean Dallas. It cost Dallas a 2nd round pick, a prospect recently drafted in the 2nd round that's having a good year as a 20 year old rookie in the AHL, a conditional 3rd, and a 4th for Tanev (75% retained) and a throw away contract.

Yes, I meant Dallas, and covered what they paid here.

Dallas paid a little more in the deal, mostly to retain to NJ. That 4th round pick is worth about 0.3. SO net, Dallas paid 2.5 for Tanev, with double retention, which is still second round value.
But this isn't the value of a late first.... The best piece, is still a late second.... Even rating Grush at his draft position, it's still a second round value return.
This is what some Dallas fans are saying.

Most likely he won't(Make the NHL), of course there is a chance but if you watch him in the OHL, development camps, prospect tournament, and now the AHL.. he isn't anything amazing. Might make it as a 5-6 for a few years tho.
Grushnikov was a wildcard, hail mary pick from the COVID-affected 2021 draft where Dallas took players mostly sight unseen.
Worked for Wyatt Johnston. Didn't for Grushnikov. He didn't develop the puck skills for the NHL IMO.

Not really sure how people are justifying it as two seconds, would Calgary have traded a 2nd round pick for Grushnikov? I think the answer is no. He is no longer valued as a 2nd rounder, each season since being drafted has been underwhelming. Not bad, but his value has certainly dropped.

How much value, does an averaged size, defensive LD, with no offense have? Five points in 44 games at the AHL level, 29 points, in 120 games in the OHL. His defensive game, is really going to have to be something special, for him to have a NHL future at all. If we drafted a no offense, average size, defensive LD with a second round pick, how many people would be happy here?

Bottom line, is that Calgary got back a late second, and a prospect that might become a 5/6...maybe. Dallas did well here, and I don't think what Calgary received was terrible, but I wouldn't call it a great return either.

 

[OVO16]

Haven't seen this name brought up much, but Jan Rutta could be a sneaky good trade target if the cost is reasonable. Signed at 2.75M per year for 1 season after this one. Plays 16 mins a night at 5v5 (Tanev plays 16:20), and has solid defensive underlying metrics.

Tanev vs Rutta this season:

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

I mentioned him a few pages back. I think he's a legit target to be honest. He makes a lot of sense. Could be had for cheap.

Playing big minutes, has good underlying defensive metrics and has a nasty side to him as well

 

[Fogelhund]

I'd like to go the Artem Zub route. A name not mentioned here.

Ottawa is a mess right now, players want out. He's a RD with term that plays the right way. I think he can bring a lot to the table.

I've mentioned him a few times as well. He would be a good fit for sure. The pushback that I've received, has mostly that people don't think they'd move him.

 

[horner]

At least a big physical D man, who can handle that play, even if he's not tough in the drop gloves way. We brought in Reaves, Bertuzzi, Domi to play a more playoff style.... Whether they are in the lineup, and play is another matter. Reaves, at least hasn't been the steaming pile of poop he was early in the season, and if he keeps up recent form, perhaps should get games.

Another tough forward probably just replaces Reaves, so it's a marginal improvement. I haven't seen any realistic names, that are available for forwards, higher up in the lineup who would help.

It's all about Mathew's Marner and Nylander buying in to play tough playoff hockey they or we will fall.

At least a big physical D man, who can handle that play, even if he's not tough in the drop gloves way. We brought in Reaves, Bertuzzi, Domi to play a more playoff style.... Whether they are in the lineup, and play is another matter. Reaves, at least hasn't been the steaming pile of poop he was early in the season, and if he keeps up recent form, perhaps should get games.

Another tough forward probably just replaces Reaves, so it's a marginal improvement. I haven't seen any realistic names, that are available for forwards, higher up in the lineup who would help.

It's all about Mathew's Marner and Nylander buying in to play tough playoff hockey they or we will fall.

 

[Fogelhund]

It's all about Mathew's Marner and Nylander buying in to play tough playoff hockey they or we will fall.


It's all about Mathew's Marner and Nylander buying in to play tough playoff hockey they or we will fall.

I agree.

I agree.

 

[Contenderorpretender]

I'd like to go the Artem Zub route. A name not mentioned here.

Ottawa is a mess right now, players want out. He's a RD with term that plays the right way. I think he can bring a lot to the table.

Zub is an absolute stud and would be an awesome addition. No clue on cost and would be shocked if he's actually available. Ottawa is a weird team. They have extremely talented d core but it's all offensive minded except zub and he still puts up ok points.

 

[Fogelhund]

Interesting reading Canes fans about Pesce in this thread.

Speculation: - Brett Pesce's next contract

I know points aren't everything for a Dman, but Pesce seems to be having a very poor year offensively by his caliber. Likewise, I've heard many Cane fans even dating back to like December saying how poorly he's played overall. What do you expect his next contract to be? Will he even re-sign with...

forums.hfboards.com

Still a very good player, but with age, he's lost some speed, and that's beginning to be an issue at times, and will become more pronounced as time goes by. They would keep him for 2-3 years max.

 

[Stephen]

The funny thing is Friedman said the leafs offered a first in their package for Zadorov and Tanev.

Instead Calgary settle on a 2nd, 3rd, 5th and a prospect for the two.

Unreal the length some teams will go.

Although if you subscribe to previous regime logic, trading a higher pick for many lower picks is seen as a positive. So maybe Calgary wanted the balance there. But in summary, who cares about the Flames anyway.

 

[SprDaVE]

If the Preds are selling Fabbro is the guy we should be chasing

He's their Liljegren in many ways. I think he'd be a good "buy low" target for sure and could be someone that needs a fresh start somewhere. He's got all the tools.

 

[ULF_55]

Retool more so than rebuild.

They can't go into rebuild mode a couple reasons.

1. Fans don't want it and isn't Toronto where they don't care about winning.
2. Kadri
3. Weeger
4. Huberdeau

And even with some of the overpays, they're in good shape going into free agency.

 

[Dekes For Days]

But this isn't the value of a late first.... The best piece, is still a late second.... Even rating Grush at his draft position, it's still a second round value return.

It doesn't matter what the best piece is. A 2nd + 2nd + conditional 3rd + 4th is pretty close in value to a late 1st, especially this year where there's expected to be a drop off soon after the mid 1st round.

This is what some Dallas fans are saying.

I don't really care what "some Dallas fans" are saying about the 20 year old defensive defenseman they just traded away, that most of them likely haven't seen, let alone know how to properly evaluate. This is the problem. A draft pick is a mystery box. It has no flaws. It is the perfect idea of what you can dream it to be. A prospect has the flaws that that draft pick soon will, and fans are historically bad at estimating their market value relative to draft picks.

If we drafted a no offense, average size, defensive LD with a second round pick, how many people would be happy here?

He's 6'2" 194 lbs at 20 years old. I don't know why you keep acting like size is an issue. Defensive ability in defensemen has value. We had people up in arms because we didn't do that with a mid-1st in 2020. Heck, we did that with a 5th overall pick in 2008.

 

[Fogelhund]

It doesn't matter what the best piece is. A 2nd + 2nd + conditional 3rd + 4th is pretty close in value to a late 1st, especially this year where there's expected to be a drop off soon after the mid 1st round.

I don't really care what "some Dallas fans" are saying about the 20 year old defensive defenseman they just traded away, that most of them likely haven't seen, let alone know how to properly evaluate. This is the problem. A draft pick is a mystery box. It has no flaws. It is the perfect idea of what you can dream it to be. A prospect has the flaws that that draft pick soon will, and fans are historically bad at estimating their market value relative to draft picks.

He's 6'2" 194 lbs at 20 years old. I don't know why you keep acting like size is an issue. Defensive ability in defensemen has value. We had people up in arms because we didn't do that with a mid-1st in 2020. Heck, we did that with a 5th overall pick in 2008.

Again... i used actual values, from the Athletic... and the value was a second round value. That is basic math. If you want to go ahead and say it's second, and close to a first, and that makes you happy today... go for it.

Ah... Dallas fans, who might have paid attention to their draft picks, and might discuss it on a discussion board, don't know as much as you.... fair enough.

Artyom Grushnikov at eliteprospects.com 6'1" 194

AHL has him as 6'1"

Schenn was 6'2", 210 at draft. He put up more points in his draft year, than Grush did in two years. There is a reason Schenn was ranked high in everyone's draft boards, and Grushnikov was ranked 102nd by McKeen's, 68th by McKenzie (a poll of NHL scouts) NHL Central had him 24th of Euros, This was a consensus very early third round pick, that went early, and has disappointed since... that's really the whole story.

But, if you must defend Grushnikov, because of all of your viewings, and incredible knowledge of him..... feel free..

 

[Ianturnedbull]

My Dude,

What do you think Treliving is up to now. Will he go after at Center and a RHD? Can he get these things with their 1st and a 3rd?

Now that Tanev is gone, what do you think will happen?

 

[Budz]

I think everyone should prepare themselves for a very quiet Toronto tradeline.

You’ve been warned…

 

[ULF_55]

I think it's safe to say that Grushnikov hasn't progressed nearly as well as what you'd typically be hoping for from a 2nd round.

I'm curious, what is the perception of Chadwick?

Would you value him as a 6th. round pick or as a developing prospect?

 

[Commander Clueless]

I think everyone should prepare themselves for a very quiet Toronto tradeline.

You’ve been warned…

I have to agree.

I expect to add a defenseman, but probably not a big name. Hopefully someone who can gel with Rielly.

Wouldn't expect much more than that.

 

[DarkKnight]

I think everyone should prepare themselves for a very quiet Toronto tradeline.

You’ve been warned…

With Tanev off the board, there isn’t much of interest left in the names we’ve heard, in terms of big impact.

 

[stats1]

Yeah honestly I won’t even be mad if we don’t make a big move. I think a guy like Mario Ferraro could be a decent low cost type of pick up for depth on the back end. I don’t expect our FRP or any of our top kids to be moved. There’s no one out there from what we’ve heard that moves the needle that much. The exception being Hanifin but we all know Treliving doesn’t move FRP’s for rentals. I think also a lot people have to get used to the fact Treliving is a lot different than Dubas.

Treliving is more conservative, methodical in making moves, Dubas is more of a flame thrower, he likes to be active, make big moves. Treliving is not like that

 

[Fogelhund]

My Dude,

What do you think Treliving is up to now. Will he go after at Center and a RHD? Can he get these things with their 1st and a 3rd?

Now that Tanev is gone, what do you think will happen?

Probably a lesser name RD.... and that's it. Low cost.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Acquiring Tanev + Zadorov together would've been a huge move. Another one of those likely isn't out there.

 

[Kiwi]

Isn’t he a repeated healthy scratch?

He's also been on there top pair the last few seasons, he's worth the risk imo

 

[Fogelhund]

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[OVO16]

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Pretty much confirms that its mainly gonna be depth trades. He's def gonna get a Right Shot defenseman. But prolly a depth type of guy