Trades and UFA’s - Trade Deadline Edition

[acrobaticgoalie]

Didn’t Toronto offer Liljegren, and LA preferred Durzi?

From what I remember it was either Liljegren straight up for Muzzin or a 1st plus Durzi and Grundstrom who were both just B prospects at the time.

 

[SprDaVE]

Yeah. Fair point. I'd argue Hronek isn't as valuable as Andersson as he is purely offense and the Trouba situation really forced Winnipeg's hand to trading him to a specific place.

With the cap situation across the league as dire as it is, I'd argue that his value is higher than those previous players due to a fairly low cap for a few more years. I'd be willing to bet a team would offer a prospect on the same level of Knies in a deal like this.

If there's a team willing to part with a young ELC power forward contributing in their top 6 to get Andersson then more power to them. There aren't many around. We'll see.

I think most teams that desperately want him will offer multiple first rounders and prospect(s) a few years away, which is how it usually goes.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Grundstrom wasn't a NHLer at the time of the trade and nowhere near putting up the same amount of points at the same age.

Okay

I thought my package of

1st
Liljegren
Robertson
Kampf

Was a reasonable start

I'd include Holmberg, 5th and 7th for a RHD / Overpayment to force them to say yes.

Andersson is younger than Muzzin and has an extra year

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Knies is not to be offered unless we're trading for A superstar which we're not.

 

[LeafParade]

I think there are more sellers than buyers. Just wait for the deadline and see if you can grab a piece on the cheap, otherwise you got the cap to target some d in free agency.

 

[SprDaVE]

Okay

I thought my package of

1st
Liljegren
Robertson
Kampf

Was a reasonable start

I'd include Holmberg, 5th and 7th for a RHD / Overpayment to force them to say yes.

Andersson is younger than Muzzin and has an extra year

The first part seems to be pretty fair, it's a lot of good value for them. Going further to acquire him is starting to be sunken cost and makes no sense anymore, we're literally trading 3 NHLers and 1st round pick. Andersson isn't THAT good.

Not sure it'll be enough for Calgary to do it because they really have no pressure to do it. After Tanev and Hanifin are gone, maybe they table those talks for the off-season or the next deadline.

 

[Knies iT]

I would say no prospect/U25 player in our system should be off-limits for Andersson. The only exception would be Knies.

Now he’s the guy you get to be riellys partner don’t give ‘em lily though

I have no interest in trading Liljegren, but for an Andersson piece, he’s not off limits at all. RA was always Liljegren’s ceiling (in a perfect world) and IMO that ship has likely sailed.

 

[dubplatepressure]

Okay

I thought my package of

1st
Liljegren
Robertson
Kampf

Was a reasonable start

I'd include Holmberg, 5th and 7th for a RHD / Overpayment to force them to say yes.

Andersson is younger than Muzzin and has an extra year

I don’t see that package as a “force” move. It’s a “we want to change direction and need depth” move from their end. A package like that starts to turn into forced moves once you replace Kampf with one of our A prospects - Minten, Cowen, and Greb.

I think a package of Lilly, Robertson, our 1st, and Minten would get a lot of interest, rightfully so. I just don’t know if we should even be doing that. Depends on the player(s) coming back I suppose.

 

[Knies iT]

I think we are delusional thinking we could get Andersson without moving Knies.

Maybe so.

Andersson would cost more than anyone on that list given his age, contract, handiness and overall impact. CGY likely wants a blue chip C prospect, which we don't have. TOR's best offers would likely look like:

1st + Liljegren + Minten + ?

or

1st + Knies + Niemela

The lack of 2nd round picks would make it hart to compete with other bids. He'd go for a ransom.

 

[Leaffan1991]

I would prefer to not lose any of our top prospects like Cowen Minten and Grebs. Wouldn't mind offering Lilly Robertson and Niemela or anybody else besides those three

 

[MarMarSab3]

They haven’t earned it?

So give them nothing because TOR doesn’t deserve a chance to try another go at the playoffs?

If there is piles of cap space next season don't you think it'll be absorbed by Matthews/Nylander's new contracts? Also if the plan is to hit the UFA market, won't it be another list of new players on inflated contracts?

I'm not sure what I'd so if I were Treliving, but Toronto's stars won't be young forever. They cannot wait 4 years for 1st round picks to emerge and become impact players.

The fans have earned it, this core has not demonstrated anything that shows the commitment required to win a Stanley Cup

 

[Kiwi]

If the coach and management are down on Liljegren and Robertson perhaps an option is to get two players in a similar situation and give everybody a change of scenery

Liljegren for Fabbro and Robertson for Kaliyev

 

[The Podium]

Unless we are grabbing a young player with term (or who will re-sign), I'd rather Tre didnt go big game hunting.

I dont think this team is as far off as everyone here seems to think. Especially if we get some internal surplus value on guys who arent quite where they should be (Eg. Bertuzzi) in the playoffs.

Knies - Matthews - Marner/Nylander
Bertuzzi - Tavares - Marner/Nylander

Should be just fine as a top 6

Reilly - XXXX
McCabe - Brodie/Lilly
Benoit - Lilly/Brodie

This is where we improve, ideally someone like Andersson/Hanifin would fill in next to Reilly and Brodie moves down the lineup where he wouldnt be as exposed. Could always go budget option like Walker or Carrier, but then Brodie would be sitting higher up in the lineup and wed be improving 2nd/3rd pairing instead.

Overall, McCabe, Benoit, Lilly are 3/4 of a good bottom 4 on D, the top pairing is really the main issue.

The bottom 6 is a disaster. No identity, no role, no good. Wonder if they can shuffle the deck chairs in some sort of buy/sell combo with limited net assets in/out just to spark something. Who is even out there?

 

[WTFMAN99]

Unless we are grabbing a young player with term (or who will re-sign), I'd rather Tre didnt go big game hunting.

I dont think this team is as far off as everyone here seems to think. Especially if we get some internal surplus value on guys who arent quite where they should be (Eg. Bertuzzi) in the playoffs.

Knies - Matthews - Marner/Nylander
Bertuzzi - Tavares - Marner/Nylander

Should be just fine as a top 6

Reilly - XXXX
McCabe - Brodie/Lilly
Benoit - Lilly/Brodie

This is where we improve, ideally someone like Andersson/Hanifin would fill in next to Reilly and Brodie moves down the lineup where he wouldnt be as exposed. Could always go budget option like Walker or Carrier, but then Brodie would be sitting higher up in the lineup and wed be improving 2nd/3rd pairing instead.

Overall, McCabe, Benoit, Lilly are 3/4 of a good bottom 4 on D, the top pairing is really the main issue.

The bottom 6 is a disaster. No identity, no role, no good. Wonder if they can shuffle the deck chairs in some sort of buy/sell combo with limited net assets in/out just to spark something. Who is even out there?

I don't think this is the year, it's not what a lot of people want to hear but we have too many holes, 2 top 4 RD, a 3rd line centre, top 6 LW and...yea.

I think our job (Tre's) job in the off-season is to solidify the roster. A few of us on here have had ideas on ways to improve the roster...I know I am guilty of posting a lot of capfriendlys but we should try to get 4 quality defenseman in place. It's hard to find a #1 stud D but we can certainly find 2 good top 4 defenseman for this roster. I'd try to find guys that are better on the PK and even the coaching is likely to be different.

If we approach next trade deadline saying "Hey, we need a top 6 or top 9 winger" and that's it, I would be okay with ponying up assets for that. You can't re-make your team like Dubas did last year.

 

[The Podium]

I don't think this is the year, it's not what a lot of people want to hear but we have too many holes, 2 top 4 RD, a 3rd line centre, top 6 LW and...yea.

I think our job (Tre's) job in the off-season is to solidify the roster. A few of us on here have had ideas on ways to improve the roster...I know I am guilty of posting a lot of capfriendlys but we should try to get 4 quality defenseman in place. It's hard to find a #1 stud D but we can certainly find 2 good top 4 defenseman for this roster. I'd try to find guys that are better on the PK and even the coaching is likely to be different.

If we approach next trade deadline saying "Hey, we need a top 6 or top 9 winger" and that's it, I would be okay with ponying up assets for that. You can't re-make your team like Dubas did last year.

This year isnt a favourite year, but this year could be the year. Their worst roster in a while yes, I had said it at the beginning of the season, but no one was taking Florida to get to the finals. Just show up and you have a chance.

Just because its not the year on paper, doesnt mean they cant improve this season and beyond with moves at the TDL. Rasmus Andersson for example can be one of those top 3 RHD signed 2 more years at a reasonable 4.5 mil cap hit. Maybe costs are inhibitive, but thats a deal you make if reasonable that helps them these playoffs and the next 2 with one less thing to go shopping for in the offseason.

Suddenly, this doesnt look too bad:
Reilly - Andersson
McCabe - Brodie
Benoit - Lilly

Top 6 LW would be ideal, but that top 6 LW come playoff time may just very well be Bertuzzi. Hes not been that this season, but he really stepped up in the playoffs last season with Boston. That could be an add without adding.

The bottom 6 may be improved with 1 or 2 late picks, could maybe sell on Kampf/Domi/etc and flip the acquired asset for lateral moves that may be better fits.

It doesnt have to be a 5 player add big splash, just has to be a better mix to what we currently have and the team to get hot at the right time.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

The fans have earned it, this core has not demonstrated anything that shows the commitment required to win a Stanley Cup

Which is what?

You don't have to love the current version of the Toronto Maple Leafs, but with this type of cynicism how can you muster the courage to call yourself a fan?

 

[WTFMAN99]

This year isnt a favourite year, but this year could be the year. Their worst roster in a while yes, I had said it at the beginning of the season, but no one was taking Florida to get to the finals. Just show up and you have a chance.

Just because its not the year on paper, doesnt mean they cant improve this season and beyond with moves at the TDL. Rasmus Andersson for example can be one of those top 3 RHD signed 2 more years at a reasonable 4.5 mil cap hit. Maybe costs are inhibitive, but thats a deal you make if reasonable that helps them these playoffs and the next 2 with one less thing to go shopping for in the offseason.

Suddenly, this doesnt look too bad:
Reilly - Andersson
McCabe - Brodie
Benoit - Lilly

Top 6 LW would be ideal, but that top 6 LW come playoff time may just very well be Bertuzzi. Hes not been that this season, but he really stepped up in the playoffs last season with Boston. That could be an add without adding.

The bottom 6 may be improved with 1 or 2 late picks, could maybe sell on Kampf/Domi/etc and flip the acquired asset for lateral moves that may be better fits.

It doesnt have to be a 5 player add big splash, just has to be a better mix to what we currently have and the team to get hot at the right time.

The difference between Boston Bertuzzi and Toronto Bertuzzi is one got top PP unit time.

The issue I have is "This could be the year" - but there's no reason to believe it.

 

[Skullz]

It does not make any sense to trade Lily for Andersson. We've put six years into him, and he is finally getting close to what we need. If we trade for Andersson, it should be to add him to a D core with Lily, which would give us two young, two-way RHDs.

That said, we should put a lot on the table for Andersson. He has two more years under contract and fits exactly what we need. I must agree with other posters though that trading Knies for him is nonsensical. Knies you keep unless trading for an absolute star, which Andersson is not.

If we use the Muzzin deal as a framework (1st, Durzi (promising second-round pick) and Grundstrom (less promising second-round pick), a potential deal could look something like:

To Toronto: Rasmus Andersson

To Calgary: 1st 2024, Topi Niemala, Roni Hirvonen, 3rd 2024. (Maybe not enough, because I think both prospects are worse than Durzi or Grundstrom where at the time)

 

[DarkKnight]

Posters on here want to improve the team with guys like hanifin and Andersen but only want to give up Timmins.
Timmins shouldn’t be on our team but our defense is so poor we need his cheap contract.
If we go for a top two dman it’s going to hurt. Calgary will laugh if we offer timmins

He’s the new Jeremy Bracco, has zero trade value, but we think other teams want him. As soon as I see him in a trade I lose interest reading further, he’s nothing.

 

[Knies iT]

It does not make any sense to trade Lily for Andersson. We've put six years into him, and he is finally getting close to what we need. If we trade for Andersson, it should be to add him to a D core with Lily, which would give us two young, two-way RHDs.

That said, we should put a lot on the table for Andersson. He has two more years under contract and fits exactly what we need. I must agree with other posters though that trading Knies for him is nonsensical. Knies you keep unless trading for an absolute star, which Andersson is not.

If we use the Muzzin deal as a framework (1st, Durzi (promising second-round pick) and Grundstrom (less promising second-round pick), a potential deal could look something like:

To Toronto: Rasmus Andersson

To Calgary: 1st 2024, Topi Niemala, Roni Hirvonen, 3rd 2024. (Maybe not enough, because I think both prospects are worse than Durzi or Grundstrom where at the time)

That offer gets you nowhere close. Quantity for quality and will get beat out by other teams.

You can't make restrictions on trading for a top pair, 27 year old RHD like Andersson. Liljegren tops out as a #4 if we're lucky, unless something drastically changes in his development. That's not a deal breaker for an impact D on a 4.5m deal with term.

Likely doesn't happen anyways so its a moot discussion, but trades of that caliber hurt and you will give up pieces you don't want to part with.

 

[MarMarSab3]

Which is what?

You don't have to love the current version of the Toronto Maple Leafs, but with this type of cynicism how can you muster the courage to call yourself a fan?

Because I've spent 46 years waiting for a cup and would love to win one in my lifetime, throwing away future assets for this core doesn't make sense.

 

[al secord]

With the Leafs you must always doubt it. Its amazing the amount of playoff revenue they have lost over the decades and yet they just dont seem to care and fake it every year. I still remember the ceo saying " Dont worry we will win a cup." Now look at us. No one thinks they can even win 2 rounds.

I remember no one thinking we'd win a round.

 

[Suntouchable13]

I remember no one thinking we'd win a round.

Yea, they fluked one. Great.

 

[baton elevated]

I like Andersson a lot but he's not a big star here. I don't think it's realistic at all to expect us to move Knies in this kind of deal. Not many teams would have a Knies to part with either. If that's their hill to die on, Andersson isn't being moved.

With that said, what would be a comparable to Andersson traded in the last 3-5 years?

Chychrin?

I like Andersson a lot but he's not a big star here. I don't think it's realistic at all to expect us to move Knies in this kind of deal. Not many teams would have a Knies to part with either. If that's their hill to die on, Andersson isn't being moved.

With that said, what would be a comparable to Andersson traded in the last 3-5 years?

Chychrun?

 

[darrylsittler27]

Yea, they fluked one. Great.

Pretty much . They blew so many they were bound to win one against an old beat up TB team that was ready to go camping with their kids. They then melted like butter.