Trades and UFA’s - Trade Deadline Edition

[WTFMAN99]

So Kevin Weekes is talking about Andersson...I tried a mock off-season....as per usual rip away, my particular thoughts on the roster flaws at the bottom;

1.6M approx in case you feel any of my values are off

Centre is strong, you could make the roster even deeper at the TDL if you got another good winger to put JT to 2-3C

I question the speed and overall grit of the roster.

PK ability is much improved.

Andersson adds some secondary offense to the back end

I feel like the package offered for Andersson is probably in line with what LAK got for Muzzin, arguably better.

 

[Fogelhund]

Was

I would literally clean out whatever we have left in the cupboards if it meant getting Andersson and Hanifan. Probably a pipe dream, I’d settle for either one. But hot damn Andersson is literally thee! Guy we need on the blue line. If we could attach Hanifan or a forward to the deal empty the cupboards

You’d have a very talented back end, without much physicality. I might suggest you’d want more balance.

 

[stickty111]

Muzzin was a 1st + Durzi + Grundstrom.

He was a similar age, salary and had 1 yr left on his deal (Andersson has 2).

There's certainly a bit of a template there.

In this case, it would be 1st, Chadwick? Maybe Minten?
This one is tough. Chadwick probably has more value than Durzi had at the time, and Minten a bit more value too, but I'd do it if thats the trade. You could argue Grundstorm's value was inflated at the time.

 

[notdoneyet]

Posters on here want to improve the team with guys like hanifin and Andersen but only want to give up Timmins.
Timmins shouldn’t be on our team but our defense is so poor we need his cheap contract.
If we go for a top two dman it’s going to hurt. Calgary will laugh if we offer timmins

 

[Fogelhund]

Anderssen would cost a ton... far more than people are suggesting here....

Here is what one Buffalo fan proposed. If he was available I would go whole hog from Detroit and offer Berggren, 2024 1st, 2025 1st, Wallinder and Maatta to clear a spot on defense.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Robertson is the only real depth scoring piece we have and his deployment is...something. If we actually ran 4 lines properly he'd be a real asset. Since we're not doing that, I can see why we'd trade him. Goofy ass team only wanting to run 2 lines

 

[Dreakmur]

In this case, it would be 1st, Chadwick? Maybe Minten?
This one is tough. Chadwick probably has more value than Durzi had at the time, and Minten a bit more value too, but I'd do it if thats the trade. You could argue Grundstorm's value was inflated at the time.

Didn’t Toronto offer Liljegren, and LA preferred Durzi?

 

[WTFMAN99]

Anderssen would cost a ton... far more than people are suggesting here....

Here is what one Buffalo fan proposed. If he was available I would go whole hog from Detroit and offer Berggren, 2024 1st, 2025 1st, Wallinder and Maatta to clear a spot on defense.

Pretty great offer

Minimum and max offers for me would be;

1st 2024
Robertson
Liljegren
Kampf

My max

1st 2024
Robertson
Liljegren
Kampf
Holmberg
5th 2024
7th 2024


Muzzin trade was Durzi's rights, Grundstrom (in the AHL) and a 1st

1st = 1st
Robertson probably worth more than Grundstrom
Liljegren now is worth more than what Durzi was
Kampf is salary

Holmberg, 5th and a 7th would put it well into overpayment territory.

 

[TheShape]

Rasmus Andersson was the guy to target in the past when CGY was loaded with D. Of course I still think he’s worth’s it now as we could get 3 playoff runs out of him. Liljegren for sure would be going back the other way along with a C prospect and a 1st.

I’ve said it before, everyone should be available on the flames but ownership may feel differently. I get the vibe they believe they can retool quickly on the fly, that team needs a scorched earth rebuild.

 

[Avilaj07]

To Toronto-
Hanifin (extended 7yrs x 7.5 aav)
Andersson

To Calgary-
Liljegren
Jarnkrok
Timmons
Minten
Niemela
2024 1st Round Pick
2025 3rd Round Pick

Rielly-Anderson
Hanifin-Brodie
Benoit-McCabe

 

[Kurtz]

To Toronto-
Hanifin (extended 7yrs x 7.5 aav)
Andersson

To Calgary-
Liljegren
Jarnkrok
Timmons
Minten
Niemela
2024 1st Round Pick
2025 3rd Round Pick

Rielly-Anderson
Hanifin-Brodie
Benoit-McCabe

This is one of them super old school NHL 2K trades where we send out a bunch of mediocrity to get back 2 very good players, and the cap doesn't exist.

 

[I am Canadian]

I think we are delusional thinking we could get Andersson without moving Knies.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

If we wanted to go full NHL 24 GM mode we could trade Marner for Hanifin + Andersson and come out spending less money

 

[nuck]

Rasmus Andersson was the guy to target in the past when CGY was loaded with D. Of course I still think he’s worth’s it now as we could get 3 playoff runs out of him. Liljegren for sure would be going back the other way along with a C prospect and a 1st.

I’ve said it before, everyone should be available on the flames but ownership may feel differently. I get the vibe they believe they can retool quickly on the fly, that team needs a scorched earth rebuild.

If they have two guys that are already walking they aren't going to let a cost controlled guy with term who happens to be their #1 leave. That blows their defense up for a couple of years. He isn't aged out and he doesn't want out so could be their possible incentive? Yes in the past as you say, at least maybe, with enough of an overpay. Every team thinks they are two years away with a bit of luck and the Flames are no different.

 

[Sypher04]

They haven’t earned it?

So give them nothing because TOR doesn’t deserve a chance to try another go at the playoffs?

If there is piles of cap space next season don't you think it'll be absorbed by Matthews/Nylander's new contracts? Also if the plan is to hit the UFA market, won't it be another list of new players on inflated contracts?

I'm not sure what I'd so if I were Treliving, but Toronto's stars won't be young forever. They cannot wait 4 years for 1st round picks to emerge and become impact players.

Agree completely. I get people aren’t thrilled with the way we’ve played for a lot of this season, I’m right there with you all, but the idea we should stand pat and not try to upgrade this team for the playoffs is a pretty bad one.

Effectively throwing in the towel on a year you are going to make the playoffs and where you core is in their primes is mismanagement, plain and simple.

Now, if you are out there trying to find a deal to improve the team and you ultimately pass because prices are too high, that’s understandable, even desirable. But if you can make a hockey trade at an acceptable price to bring in a player with term who helps now and going forward you have to do that.

As you rightly pointed out, our stars won’t be young forever. Delaying building around them just delays when we could see this team put it all together.

Don’t buy rentals. Don’t blow all your assets on guys of questionable impact. But also don’t assume this team is a shoe-in to be able to be retooled entirely through UFA either. Odds are you are losing a lot bidding wars for UFAs due to cap constraints. And if some of these pieces will need to be added through trade anyways, which they will, then start adding what you can as soon as possible.

Some say this team hasn’t earned upgrades at the deadline, I’d argue, given we all knew the D was going to be a problem in the offseason and we didn’t fix it, Treliving hasn’t earned the right to not do anything to shore it up and help his team.

If they have two guys that are already walking they aren't going to let a cost controlled guy with term who happens to be their #1 leave. That blows their defense up for a couple of years. He isn't aged out and he doesn't want out so could be their possible incentive? Yes in the past as you say, at least maybe, with enough of an overpay. Every team thinks they are two years away with a bit of luck and the Flames are no different.

If they do it would be the clearest possible indicator that they are going scorched earth rebuild, which I do doubt.

 

[SprDaVE]

I think we are delusional thinking we could get Andersson without moving Knies.

I like Andersson a lot but he's not a big star here. I don't think it's realistic at all to expect us to move Knies in this kind of deal. Not many teams would have a Knies to part with either. If that's their hill to die on, Andersson isn't being moved.

With that said, what would be a comparable to Andersson traded in the last 3-5 years?

 

[Fogelhund]

""

Some good discussion on this years draft, who has a lot of picks, and what the value of this years picks means for a team like Toronto.

If Toronto wanted to add a player like Hanifin they would have to invest their first-round pick, one of their fifth-round selections (I would ask for the Chicago fifth in 2025 if I were the Flames because it should have the most value) a depth roster player (possibly Bobby McMann or Nick Robertson) and one of their prospects (possibly Fraser Minten).

Rielly-Anderson
Hanifin-Brodie
Benoit-McCabe

Tons of skill, not much grit... I think you need more balance than this.

Rielly XXX
McCabe Andersson
Benoit Lilly

With the XXX being a Larsson/Gudas "type" player, probably results in more success, even though your lineup is the more skilled lineup.

 

[Fogelhund]

Robertson is the only real depth scoring piece we have and his deployment is...something. If we actually ran 4 lines properly he'd be a real asset. Since we're not doing that, I can see why we'd trade him. Goofy ass team only wanting to run 2 lines

Which takes you back to how we were built previously. Two lines to score, two lines to basically play prevent D.... I don't think it would be too expensive to field two lines of shutting down the game, playing possession, and some physicality... obviously we don't have the right bodies for that now.

 

[Judas Tavares]

""

Some good discussion on this years draft, who has a lot of picks, and what the value of this years picks means for a team like Toronto.

If Toronto wanted to add a player like Hanifin they would have to invest their first-round pick, one of their fifth-round selections (I would ask for the Chicago fifth in 2025 if I were the Flames because it should have the most value) a depth roster player (possibly Bobby McMann or Nick Robertson) and one of their prospects (possibly Fraser Minten).

Interesting article. It does seem like this draft isn't all that great, but shipping out a 1st still worries me since we don't have one in 2025. I'd feel a lot better knowing one could be recouped like with the Sandin trade.

 

[I am Canadian]

I like Andersson a lot but he's not a big star here. I don't think it's realistic at all to expect us to move Knies in this kind of deal. Not many teams would have a Knies to part with either. If that's their hill to die on, Andersson isn't being moved.

With that said, what would be a comparable to Andersson traded in the last 3-5 years?

Hard to find a comparable for an Andersson trade imo as a RHD
Hronek, Weegar, Trouba maybe? Those deals were more complicated imo and different types of players.

Probably around what Muzzin got. 1st, good prospect? There's going to be a big RHD tax, as well as a good manageable caphit.

1st
Knies/Minten/Cowen
Roster player [Liljegren?]
3rd?

 

[SprDaVE]

Hard to find a comparable for an Andersson trade imo as a RHD
Hronek, Weegar, Trouba maybe? Those deals were more complicated imo and different types of players.

Probably around what Muzzin got. 1st, good prospect? There's going to be a big RHD tax, as well as a good manageable caphit.

1st
Knies/Minten/Cowen
Roster player [Liljegren?]
3r

Muzzin and Hronek fits quite a bit. Trouba as well a bit.

I don't think none of them had to include a prospect like Knies. Trouba was a 1st and Pionk, who was somewhat similarly valued to Liljegren at the time of the trade probably. Hronek was straight up a 1st and 2nd. Muzzin was a 1st and 2 prospects (Durzi and Grundstrom) nowhere near Knies or Cowan in potential.

The cap hit is definitely a big up in value but at the end of the day if you're removing one of your better NHL young players playing a top 6 role.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Muzzin and Hronek fits quite a bit. Trouba as well a bit.

I don't think none of them had to include a prospect like Knies. Trouba was a 1st and Pionk, who was somewhat similarly valued to Liljegren at the time of the trade probably. Hronek was straight up a 1st and 2nd. Muzzin was a 1st and 2 prospects (Durzi and Grundstrom) nowhere near Knies or Cowan in potential.

Would Robertson not be the Grundstrom fill in?

 

[SprDaVE]

Would Robertson not be the Grundstrom fill in?

Grundstrom wasn't a NHLer at the time of the trade and nowhere near putting up the same amount of points at the same age.

 

[Maple Leaf]

BIg trade is coming I can feel it

 

[I am Canadian]

Muzzin and Hronek fits quite a bit. Trouba as well a bit.

I don't think none of them had to include a prospect like Knies. Trouba was a 1st and Pionk, who was somewhat similarly valued to Liljegren at the time of the trade probably. Hronek was straight up a 1st and 2nd. Muzzin was a 1st and 2 prospects (Durzi and Grundstrom) nowhere near Knies or Cowan in potential.

The cap hit is definitely a big up in value but at the end of the day, it doesn't matter if you're emptying your cupboards.

Yeah. Fair point. I'd argue Hronek isn't as valuable as Andersson as he is purely offense and the Trouba situation really forced Winnipeg's hand to trading him to a specific place.

With the cap situation across the league as dire as it is, I'd argue that his value is higher than those previous players due to a fairly low cap for a few more years. I'd be willing to bet a team would offer a prospect on the same level of Knies in a deal like this.