Trades and UFA’s - Trade Deadline Edition

[TheShape]

It wasn't really anything other than an opinion and for fun from what I gather.

I think at the end of the day, the Leafs could probably increase the quality on defense regardless of handedness, hope it provides enough to go far in the playoffs, and re-assess in the off-season. By that I mean, Brodie is likely gone, as well as Giordano. McCabe moves into a RD Brodie role probably, Leafs target a RHD and voila. It could look something like:

Hanifin - McCabe
Rielly - UFA RHD
Benoit - Liljegren

Hanifan will be offered more on the open market than we can afford, I don't think he's staying in Canada either, sounds like Boston is the front runner.

I think Tre will go after Zadorov and Tanev though. Liljegren on the 3rd pair would be ideal but it's going to depend on what his ask is on next contract, if it's 3.5-4m+ we may have no choice but to pull the trigger on a trade.

I would not trust McCabe on a shut-down pairing. He's good with Benoit as a 3rd pair, but he really struggles when asked to do more.

I agree, I like McCabe but on a true contender Benoit-McCabe is your 3rd pair.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Nothing against Soros specifically but we have seen good goalies change teams before and underperform

The flip side of that, who’s a goalie that put up elite numbers on a mediocre team with good defense that continued to put up elite numbers after leaving that team? I genuinely can’t think of any unless we want to count Bobrovski’s run last year.

 

[LaPlante94]

I don't get why we keep wanting to add more left shot defenders. Brodie has looked horrible on the right side. He's too slow and his puck handling isn't the greatest as is and it's just 10x harder on him playing the right side as a left shot defender. Last game he looked his best in a long time and it's because he actually got to play his strong side. Liljegren is our only right shot defender and I feel like he could be traded because he hasn't turned into the player we hoped for and Keefe doesn't seem to like/trust him that much anymore. With Rielly out you'd think he'd get 20+ mins and PP1 time but he played like 18 mins and got barely any PP time. You look at pretty much every legit cup contender and they all have a mix of right shot and left shot defenders who can play their strong sides.

 

[Menzinger]

Nothing against Soros specifically but we have seen good goalies change teams before and underperform

I don't really see the attraction from the Leafs pov.

If anything the team would be better off looking at a more proven vet than a young guy (the team already has Woll that they're trying to work in).

If they're going to make a bigger trade, aim for a D man

 

[SprDaVE]

Hanifan will be offered more on the open market than we can afford, I don't think he's staying in Canada either, sounds like Boston is the front runner.

I think Tre will go after Zadorov and Tanev though. Liljegren on the 3rd pair would be ideal but it's going to depend on what his ask is on next contract, if it's 3.5-4m+ we may have no choice but to pull the trigger on a trade.



I agree, I like McCabe but on a true contender Benoit-McCabe is your 3rd pair.

Hanifin is unlikely for those reasons. But the assumption would be that he'd re-sign if traded for obviously. I was just commenting on the trade proposal and what it could mean if it ever happened.

I'd have zero interest in Zadorov because he's a true bottom pairing defenseman. The Leafs need quality and if they can't get a really good upgrade, then going for a bad option just for the sake of it isn't a good alternative. Tanev fits what they need for sure, but age/regression/health is questionable.

I disagree about McCabe and I feel like he's a fairly good mid pair defenseman on a good team. He also hits like a truck, which is something we lack, to go along with a capable 2-way game. I don't understand any notion he's a 3rd pairing defenseman or not very good... it blows my mind quite a bit and makes no sense.

 

[SprDaVE]

I don't get why we keep wanting to add more left shot defenders. Brodie has looked horrible on the right side. He's too slow and his puck handling isn't the greatest as is and it's just 10x harder on him playing the right side as a left shot defender. Last game he looked his best in a long time and it's because he actually got to play his strong side. Liljegren is our only right shot defender and I feel like he could be traded because he hasn't turned into the player we hoped for and Keefe doesn't seem to like/trust him that much anymore. With Rielly out you'd think he'd get 20+ mins and PP1 time but he played like 18 mins and got barely any PP time. You look at pretty much every legit cup contender and they all have a mix of right shot and left shot defenders who can play their strong sides.

Brodie has been a RD for all his career and has been very good at it. Recency bias is hitting hard on your assessment. He hasn't been great for a little while but he's still very much competent defensively.

 

[Jacquestrapless]

I don't get why we keep wanting to add more left shot defenders. Brodie has looked horrible on the right side. He's too slow and his puck handling isn't the greatest as is and it's just 10x harder on him playing the right side as a left shot defender. Last game he looked his best in a long time and it's because he actually got to play his strong side. Liljegren is our only right shot defender and I feel like he could be traded because he hasn't turned into the player we hoped for and Keefe doesn't seem to like/trust him that much anymore. With Rielly out you'd think he'd get 20+ mins and PP1 time but he played like 18 mins and got barely any PP time. You look at pretty much every legit cup contender and they all have a mix of right shot and left shot defenders who can play their strong sides.

Leafs need a long-term solution to the 2nd pairing, and they can't afford to be picky about it. McCabe is only here for one more season after this, will be 32 when his new contract kicks in, and is seen more as a complimentary player than one to anchor a pairing.

The Leafs have nobody in the system step up.

After this season, the D looks something like

Rielly - ?
McCabe - ?
Benoit - Liljegren

Since McCabe can play both sides, it might be worth getting, say Hanafin(w/ an extension ofc), to anchor the 2nd pairing and have McCabe be the RHD for one more season. It would probably be easier than finding 2 top 4 RD. And then try again later in the 2025 off-season for another RHD.

I mean, If Tre can sign RHDs Matt Roy + Brett Pesce this offseason, that solves a lot of problems. You'd still need a long-term solution to the LHD tho. Liljegren is a wild card because IDK what Tre will do with him. So here's hoping.

 

[LeafEgo]

The flip side of that, who’s a goalie that put up elite numbers on a mediocre team with good defense that continued to put up elite numbers after leaving that team? I genuinely can’t think of any unless we want to count Bobrovski’s run last year.

Freddy rocked 920 for three straight 60 game seasons when we were worse than mediocre, then did 920 plus and won the Jennings in Carolina.

He broke, but maybe Saros doesn't.

I think with Saros he's done enough to show that you ain't going to get any more of a sure thing in the most important and difficult to fill position, and his age lines up with our timeline.

It would be such a relief.

 

[LaPlante94]

Brodie has been a RD for all his career and has been very good at it. Recency bias is hitting hard on your assessment. He hasn't been great for a little while but he's still very much competent defensively.

Games changed and is a lot faster now. Left shot defenders on the right side used to be much more common. We were told after that Florida series he just had a bad series and he would get back to himself. Half way through February and still waiting for that to happen so I don't think it really counts as recency bias anymore.

 

[LeafEgo]

I don't really see the attraction from the Leafs pov.

If anything the team would be better off looking at a more proven vet than a young guy (the team already has Woll that they're trying to work in).

If they're going to make a bigger trade, aim for a D man

Saros is 29 soon and coming off of two 65 game seasons and seven years at ~920, he is the proven vet you want.

 

[LaPlante94]

Leafs need a long-term solution to the 2nd pairing, and they can't afford to be picky about it. McCabe is only here for one more season after this, will be 32 when his new contract kicks in, and is seen more as a complimentary player than one to anchor a pairing.

The Leafs have nobody in the system step up.

After this season, the D looks something like

Rielly - ?
McCabe - ?
Benoit - Liljegren

Since McCabe can play both sides, it might be worth getting, say Hanafin(w/ an extension ofc), to anchor the 2nd pairing and have McCabe be the RHD for one more season. It would probably be easier than finding 2 top 4 RD. And then try again later in the 2025 off-season for another RHD.

I mean, If Tre can sign RHDs Matt Roy + Brett Pesce this offseason, that solves a lot of problems. So here's hoping

Niemela might make the team next year and play on the 3rd pair. I'm sure Benoit gets another contract so those 2 could be the 3rd pair. If Liljegren isn't moved then I'd assume him and McCabe is the 2nd pair. If we can sign Roy then I guess that could make the d core look like this:

Rielly-Roy
McCabe-Liljegren
Benoit-Niemela
Either Kokkonen or a FA signed to a league minimum contract as the 7th.

Doesn't look too bad but like I've said before I just don't know if Keefe likes/trusts Liljegren anymore and I think Keefe has destroyed any confidence Lili ever had. So who knows what happens to him.

 

[Kurtz]

The flip side of that, who’s a goalie that put up elite numbers on a mediocre team with good defense that continued to put up elite numbers after leaving that team? I genuinely can’t think of any unless we want to count Bobrovski’s run last year.

That's less of a message board question and more of an extensive project. To get a meaningful sample size you'd have to make a list of all traded goalies over the past decade or two, then evaluate the teams they've left by building some sort of a metric to try to isolate their team defense independent from the goalie's own performance (I guess measuring vs backup?) ...then doing the same for the team they've joined. It's a mess.

What we know is goalies will steal series. We had it done to us by Columbus, Montreal and Florida. We haven't had a goalie steal us one since Eddie. Samsonov/Wall is not a Stanley Cup capable setup, I think we can be quite sure of that. We have a number of holes to fill, no real way to fill all of them, and the only way to really compensate for that is to find a goalie who can steal you games.

 

[Jacquestrapless]

I think to shore up the D, Tre will incorporate more forward prospects on their ELCs to allocate more of the cap to the back-end.

Prospects like Holmberg, Cowan and Minten(if not traded) will play prominent roles.

I could see Tre signing a winger tho, just in case Cowan struggles. Players with a history of producing and looking for one more payday could take a cheap 1 year deal again. Players like Mantha, Duclair, Beauvillier, Kubalik could play the middle six. Or just use Jarnrkok, I guess.

But if Minten struggles, would Domi or Kampf take over? Perhaps, they turn to the rental market after giving Minten 3/4 of the season to figure it out.

I'm still on the trade Kampf and Reaves wagon though. Their 2 cap hits could be Domi's new contract.

 

[Dreakmur]

I disagree about McCabe and I feel like he's a fairly good mid pair defenseman on a good team. He also hits like a truck, which is something we lack, to go along with a capable 2-way game. I don't understand any notion he's a 3rd pairing defenseman or not very good... it blows my mind quite a bit and makes no sense.

He's marginally passable as a #4 to a partner who can carry the second pair. That's certainly not ideal for the top-4.

 

[Evilhomer]

the only way to really compensate for that is to find a goalie who can steal you games.

I think they already have that goalie in Woll.

 

[Kurtz]

I think they already have that goalie in Woll.

Think or hope? I hope we do too, but he's never had the pedigree of a future star and he's always been injury prone. It'd be good to bring him up slower without pinning our cup hopes on him immediately. Wouldn't be a bad scenario to have a proven elite #1 and a promising #1 in the wings behind him.

A situation like that has worked out quite well for a few teams in the past. Fleury/Murray and Bishop/Vasilevsky immediately come to mind.

 

[Martin Skoula]

That's less of a message board question and more of an extensive project. To get a meaningful sample size you'd have to make a list of all traded goalies over the past decade or two, then evaluate the teams they've left by building some sort of a metric to try to isolate their team defense independent from the goalie's own performance (I guess measuring vs backup?) ...then doing the same for the team they've joined. It's a mess.

What we know is goalies will steal series. We had it done to us by Columbus, Montreal and Florida. We haven't had a goalie steal us one since Eddie. Samsonov/Wall is not a Stanley Cup capable setup, I think we can be quite sure of that. We have a number of holes to fill, no real way to fill all of them, and the only way to really compensate for that is to find a goalie who can steal you games.

Yeah but every goalie that’s ruined our season was drafted or developed by the team that beat us, all the big ticket deadline trade goalies I can think of looked like shit on the new team and most of those teams lost early. Schneider was good with NJ but they weren’t competitive and it wasn’t a deadline deal, Kuemper sucked and wasn’t a deadline deal but didn’t suck enough to ruin Colorado’s run, Miller was a disaster through and through.

I get the criticism that Hedman and Vasi make less than Tavares + whoever but the cap isn’t the reason we don’t have these guys, the reason we don’t have them is that when a team drafts and develops a perennial Norris/Vezina candidate why would they ever let them go for less than a massive blatant overpay unless there’s something horribly wrong behind the scenes?

The only thing worse than not having a good goalie is paying 1st++++ for someone else’s and still not having a good goalie.

 

[Kurtz]

Yeah but every goalie that’s ruined our season was drafted or developed by the team that beat us, all the big ticket deadline trade goalies I can think of looked like shit on the new team and most of those teams lost early. Schneider was good with NJ but they weren’t competitive and it wasn’t a deadline deal, Kuemper sucked and wasn’t a deadline deal but didn’t suck enough to ruin Colorado’s run, Miller was a disaster through and through.

I get the criticism that Hedman and Vasi make less than Tavares + whoever but the cap isn’t the reason we don’t have these guys, the reason we don’t have them is that when a team drafts and develops a perennial Norris/Vezina candidate why would they ever let them go for less than a massive blatant overpay unless there’s something horribly wrong behind the scenes?

The only thing worse than not having a good goalie is paying 1st++++ for someone else’s and still not having a good goalie.

In Nashville's case though I think we know the reason - they want to give the crease to Askarov, who's been hyped as the next great for years now.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Leafs need a long-term solution to the 2nd pairing, and they can't afford to be picky about it. McCabe is only here for one more season after this, will be 32 when his new contract kicks in, and is seen more as a complimentary player than one to anchor a pairing.

The Leafs have nobody in the system step up.

After this season, the D looks something like

Rielly - ?
McCabe - ?
Benoit - Liljegren

Since McCabe can play both sides, it might be worth getting, say Hanafin(w/ an extension ofc), to anchor the 2nd pairing and have McCabe be the RHD for one more season. It would probably be easier than finding 2 top 4 RD. And then try again later in the 2025 off-season for another RHD.

I mean, If Tre can sign RHDs Matt Roy + Brett Pesce this offseason, that solves a lot of problems. You'd still need a long-term solution to the LHD tho. Liljegren is a wild card because IDK what Tre will do with him. So here's hoping.

That is exactly as I would have the pairings.

Sort out the D this offseason.

Then when Tavares comes off the books the following offseason, sort out the forwards.

Golden.

 

[Evilhomer]

Think or hope? I hope we do too, but he's never had the pedigree of a future star and he's always been injury prone. It'd be good to bring him up slower without pinning our cup hopes on him immediately. Wouldn't be a bad scenario to have a proven elite #1 and a promising #1 in the wings behind him.

A situation like that has worked out quite well for a few teams in the past. Fleury/Murray and Bishop/Vasilevsky immediately come to mind.

I would certainly not be against acquiring a number one goalie, but I don't think it's something the team will pursue.

 

[All Mod Cons]

He's marginally passable as a #4 to a partner who can carry the second pair. That's certainly not ideal for the top-4.

I think he'd be fine as a 4 if the 3 is good enough.

No team is perfect and you have to give a little at certain spots.

The important thing I think is to have Benoit and Liljegren as our 3rd pair.

Rielly on the top with a steady guy next to him.

And then McCabe with a solid number 3 next to him.

Next year figure out which Marlies forwards and prospects can contribute to whatever role in the lineup.

And then finalize the whole thing with JTs money and go into the 25-26 season in really good shape.

 

[Dreakmur]

I think he'd be fine as a 4 if the 3 is good enough.

No team is perfect and you have to give a little at certain spots.

The important thing I think is to have Benoit and Liljegren as our 3rd pair.

Rielly on the top with a steady guy next to him.

And then McCabe with a solid number 3 next to him.

Next year figure out which Marlies forwards and prospects can contribute to whatever role in the lineup.

And then finalize the whole thing with JTs money and go into the 25-26 season in really good shape.

The main problem is that Rielly's pairing can't really be the key defensive pair. That would make the second pairing the shut-down pair by default.... is the main defensive pairing where you want to "give a little"?

 

[Kiwi]

I must admit i just had a read through and I think I'm losing my mind

This team lacks either a 3C or top 6LW depending on how you feel about a Robertson Domi Bertuzzi third line and the defense is a mess
There's more holes back there than swiss cheese

Instead im reading about goaltenders, we don't have the assets to get Soros and sort out our other problems
God could be our goaltender but we aren't doing anything with that lot in front of him

Goaltending is the least of our problems, fix the skaters, especially the defense core before anything else

 

[Knies iT]

I must admit i just had a read through and I think I'm losing my mind

This team lacks either a 3C or top 6LW depending on how you feel about a Robertson Domi Bertuzzi third line and the defense is a mess
There's more holes back there than swiss cheese

Instead im reading about goaltenders, we don't have the assets to get Soros and sort out our other problems
God could be our goaltender but we aren't doing anything with that lot in front of him

Goaltending is the least of our problems, fix the skaters, especially the defense core before anything else

Commit to fixing the defense and pool all assets/cap necessary to do that.

We’re going to look back on an era with 4x elite forwards and think - how obvious was it to just focus all efforts and resources on building a strong blue line with the remaining pieces. Too many half measures and band aid fixes on the back end over the past 8 ish years.

The secondary scoring issue shouldn’t even be discussed until the above is taken care of.

 

[BigFatCat999]

I have to ask, what type of D-man does Toronto need?