Trades and UFA’s - Trade Deadline Edition

[nuck]

Should have held off on overpaying Styles, it was the only bargaining chip that could have been packaged for a good return, instead they’re stuck with 8 more years of mail it in efforts from 88……

Yeah don't know why they chose that point. Were they afraid he was going to win the scoring title and cost them even more? I'm not sure if that was a Shanacall to keep him at all costs or if the offers were so legit bad because teams knew he would be unsignable but he bent them over with sand for lube.

Just spitballin but.... I have given this a bit of thought. If its me I would have tried to move him for a max return of any kind and then juggled the return to fill lineup needs. But this summer they would have just gone through telling the board the plan is still on track, the coach is still legendary, so they are running the Shanadube plan because the Tampa win shows they are on the cusp of success. Plus they would have no idea that Willie's deal would end up being Pastrnak+++. "Lets change as little as possible" and then the NT kicks in. Early in the year there was terrible goaltending drama and stretches where Willie's offense is what is keeping them competitive so there is no way they make a move. Then as things normalize a bit for the rest of the club, and his demands become a bit ridiculous they finally think its time to explore.

The first problem is it would probably have needed to be a western team so you don't meet him in the playoffs unless you make the final. The team thinks they are Cup competitive and unless you are subtracting equal or greater talent from another club, is there a worse possible outcome then getting out of the 1st round and then getting slaughtered in your own conference by Willie? Out come the torches and pitchforks!

Really it should be a Pacific team because of how supercharged he might make a team like Vegas or Colorado look. Imagine if the Leafs "gave away their season so Vegas or the Avalanche could win another Cup." Torches and pitchforks for Shanny again!!

So January 1 it would have been maybe LA or Seattle with Vancouver flying so high they wouldn't be looking for a forward and Edmonton still in the toilet. Seattle was barely playing .500 hockey so would they spend for a rental? So its down to LA with the 5th best winning percentage in the league. I think they would be in play but they have no cap as well so what money comes back to balance? And because WN was shooting the lights out, the pressure would be on the club to get a heroic return so Clarke, Kaliyev and a 1st could seem like they gave him away. And what if LA said no to Clarke because he is the Doughty heir apparent? Willie for Kaliyev and picks doesn't look so good. I still do it because the future cap space has as much value to me and that's without knowing the money he was going to finally cost but the absence of obvious and immediate gratification doesn't seem to fit the Shanny agenda.

And finally what if LA is on Willie's no fly list? One way to control a 10 team NT is to list clubs most likely to be trade partners because the bottom half of the league won't deal big assets for a rental anyway so the list of available traders is down to max, a half dozen contenders, some with major cap issues of their own.

So maybe the day early last summer where the Prez decided to keep the band together for one more season was the actual point at which Willie became untradeable and the rest was just waiting to be shown there was no choice and taking the fist.

 

[Commander Clueless]

I always make an effort to not react too strongly to just one game. I really do.

But this trend of how we play against teams like Ottawa, Buffalo and Chicago....I'm just so sick of it.


Fire Keefe, bring in Berube or someone of that ilk. See if he can get them to care.


If he can't, strip it down in the offseason and let's redo this with players who give a....

 

[Dreakmur]

I honestly don't think Keefe is the problem. He's an excellent coach.

He may be, but the way he coached under Dubas lost him the respect if the core.

 

[ToneDog]

I always make an effort to not react too strongly to just one game. I really do.

But this trend of how we play against teams like Ottawa, Buffalo and Chicago....I'm just so sick of it.


Fire Keefe, bring in Berube or someone of that ilk. See if he can get them to care.


If he can't, strip it down in the offseason and let's redo this with players who give a....

Doubt they will. I am in the group that thinks they will use that bullet this summer so they have time to search for a coach and an excuse to run it back again.

 

[TMLAM34]

Fits next year with the cap going up and Bertuzzi ($5.5 million), Brodie ($5.0 million), Samsonov ($3.5 million) and Domi (3.0 million coming off the cap. The key will be getting young ELCs to play and produce.

2025 could like something like this...

1C: Matthews ($13.25 million)
2C: Tavares ($11.0 million)
3C: Wennberg ($4.8 million)
4C: McMann ($900k)

1LW: Knies (925k)
2LW: Grebyonkin (925k)
3LW: Holmberg (800k)
4LW: Robertson (800k)

1RW: Marner ($10.9 million)
2RW: Nylander ($11.5 million)
3RW: Jarnkrok ($2.1 million)
4RW: FA / Prospect ($900k)

1LD: Reilly ($6.5 million)
2LD: Hanifin ($6.5 million)
3LD: Benoit ($1.2 million)

13th: Prospects ($775k)

1RD: Parayko ($6.5 million)
2RD: McCabe ($2.0 million
3RD: FA ($1.0 million)

7th: Prospect ($775k)

1G: Woll ($750k)
2G: FA ($3.0 million)

Total Cap Hit: $87,700,000

You’re not signing Hanifin for 6.5. 7.5 at the least.

 

[Arzak]

You’re not signing Hanifin for 6.5. 7.5 at the least.

Maybe even more if there is SJ offer on the table.

 

[nuck]

I honestly don't think Keefe is the problem. He's an excellent coach.

Are you basing that on end of season standings or how he really coaches them situationally? Does he have them starting every game on time and jumping on other clubs early, and if not, why not? When his big guns are getting shut down does he pivot to a different attack strategy? Would you say he outcoached Cooper in the last playoff or was it more Vasi's .875 sv% and Victor Hedman's banged up play that sunk Tampa? I struggle to see why teams with inferior lineups go farther than the Leafs every year if it isn't coaching.

One thing the Bruins did last year with their season for the ages was they gave nothing away to weak teams and took no nights off. Every player had a role in the system that they could play and the coach pushed them to do that every night. That doesn't describe the Leafs under Sheldon and it is his job to have them ready to rumble every night. I don't see excellence, I see riding on the backs of his stars when they decide to bring it and not really having a plan when they don't. If they don't start hard and play hard for him every night he isn't the right guy+ for the group.

To give the benefit of the doubt. he doesn't have to necessarily be a bad coach to be the wrong choice for this team right? Woodcroft was a great coach for Edmonton and Babcock was successful in Toronto and Berube won a Cup in St Louis and then they weren't getting the job done. Gallant had 47 wins for the Panthers, 51 wins and a Cup final for the Knights and 52 wins with the Rangers and he was fired from all three clubs. Cassidy wasn't good enough for the Bruins with years of very solid lineups but won a Cup without them. All good good coaches but not for every lineup they have.

The Knights went through three coaches since 2020 and won because they found someone who could get the maximum out of this lineup. What have the Leafs accomplished that says the lineup is giving the coach all that they have? And isn't that what they will need to go anywhere in the playoffs?

 

[WTFMAN99]

Are you basing that on end of season standings or how he really coaches them situationally? Does he have them starting every game on time and jumping on other clubs early, and if not, why not? When his big guns are getting shut down does he pivot to a different attack strategy? Would you say he outcoached Cooper in the last playoff or was it more Vasi's .875 sv% and Victor Hedman's banged up play that sunk Tampa? I struggle to see why teams with inferior lineups go farther than the Leafs every year if it isn't coaching.

One thing the Bruins did last year with their season for the ages was they gave nothing away to weak teams and took no nights off. Every player had a role in the system that they could play and the coach pushed them to do that every night. That doesn't describe the Leafs under Sheldon and it is his job to have them ready to rumble every night. I don't see excellence, I see riding on the backs of his stars when they decide to bring it and not really having a plan when they don't. If they don't start hard and play hard for him every night he isn't the right guy+ for the group.

To give the benefit of the doubt. he doesn't have to necessarily be a bad coach to be the wrong choice for this team right? Woodcroft was a great coach for Edmonton and Babcock was successful in Toronto and Berube won a Cup in St Louis and then they weren't getting the job done. Gallant had 47 wins for the Panthers, 51 wins and a Cup final for the Knights and 52 wins with the Rangers and he was fired from all three clubs. Cassidy wasn't good enough for the Bruins with years of very solid lineups but won a Cup without them. All good good coaches but not for every lineup they have.

The Knights went through three coaches since 2020 and won because they found someone who could get the maximum out of this lineup. What have the Leafs accomplished that says the lineup is giving the coach all that they have? And isn't that what they will need to go anywhere in the playoffs?

Thanks for writing this out.

A lot of people cite winning % etc but he had the forward group, Muzzin, Rielly etc in their primes. He was the only coach capable of this?

He's a fine coach, nothing wrong with him but coaches are hired to be fired. Sometimes the curtain does close on you.

 

[nuck]

Doubt they will. I am in the group that thinks they will use that bullet this summer so they have time to search for a coach and an excuse to run it back again.

I'm not sure they can do that. That puts Shanny in a lame duck year for 24-25 and without some real improvement in the playoffs I don't see him returning. You would think he feels the heat in 13th place after last night's game and that a new coach might be the easiest way for a reset. There is a chance that, unchanged, they finish hard and have a good playoff with SK if they get the goaltending but they are 50 games in so the uptick needs to happen right away.

 

[SprDaVE]

Dominic Toninato on waivers. Could be an interesting pick up for depth with injuries piling up.

 

[Kiwi]

Thanks for writing this out.

A lot of people cite winning % etc but he had the forward group, Muzzin, Rielly etc in their primes. He was the only coach capable of this?

He's a fine coach, nothing wrong with him but coaches are hired to be fired. Sometimes the curtain does close on you.

I've had enough, between the god awful performance against lesser teams and our inability to start on time plus clawing our way back into games just to give away another cream puff of a goal

Sure it's players but it's coaching to, you have to be able to motive your players

Give me Everson, give it a month to sort out who he likes then let's get started on this **** house team

 

[LaPlante94]

Dominic Toninato on waivers. Could be an interesting pick up for depth with injuries piling up.

Didn't he refuse to play here back when he finished up in the NCAA?

 

[SprDaVE]

Didn't he refuse to play here back when he finished up in the NCAA?

I think the Leafs opted to not sign him.

 

[SprDaVE]

Feel like a trades coming sooner then later. This team needs a wake-up call badly.

Treliving would never do it, but they should really punt almost every single pending UFA out. It's not like they've done anything in the last 3 months anyway.

 

[ULF_55]

Dominic Toninato on waivers. Could be an interesting pick up for depth with injuries piling up.

I'd rather they just use the assets they have inhouse, and keep some contracts open for a couple Russians.

 

[Rare Jewel]

I'd rather they just use the assets they have inhouse, and keep some contracts open for a couple Russians.

Which Russians? Tsyplakov can't play this year even if they do sign him.

 

[rumman]

I'd rather they just use the assets they have inhouse, and keep some contracts open for a couple Russians.

always sounds like a good idea until, but usually disappoints............

 

[ULF_55]

Which Russians? Tsyplakov can't play this year even if they do sign him.

I guess they could sign him to a contract starting next season, so yeah that wouldn't be a concern.

Grebyonkin would be nice to see some games this year.

 

[ULF_55]

always sounds like a good idea until, but usually disappoints............

Isn't Toninato nearing his 9 lives though?
Been given opportunity after opportunity, and will be 30 in less than a month.

I'd rather invest in the future than flush good money after bad.

I think in some cases people expect prospects to be fully NHL ready without ever playing in the NHL. I guess those would be the same people that would go up in a 747 with pilots who have never flown, but have hours on a simulator.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I've had enough, between the god awful performance against lesser teams and our inability to start on time plus clawing our way back into games just to give away another cream puff of a goal

Sure it's players but it's coaching to, you have to be able to motive your players

Give me Everson, give it a month to sort out who he likes then let's get started on this **** house team

Don't worry man, I think we're really going to get a lot of respect in the handshake line this year, I can feel it.

 

[Rare Jewel]

I guess they could sign him to a contract starting next season, so yeah that wouldn't be a concern.

Grebyonkin would be nice to see some games this year.

Interestingly, though, Tsyplakov's teammate at Spartak, Maltsev, is another player I'd be looking at, but he's on loan from L.A, so technically, if we traded for him prior to the deadline, we could bring him into the team once his KHL season is done.

Would help with depth, or lack of at LW.

 

[ULF_55]

Interestingly, though, Tsyplakov's teammate at Spartak, Maltsev, is another player I'd be looking at, but he's on loan from L.A, so technically, if we traded for him prior to the deadline, we could bring him into the team once his KHL season is done.

Would help with depth, or lack of at LW.

This is kind of funny, in a sad way:

Robertson and Knies: 16 goals
Bertuzzi, Domi and Gregor: 16 goals

 

[arso40]

This is kind of funny, in a sad way:

Robertson and Knies: 16 goals
Bertuzzi, Domi and Gregor: 16 goals

Addition by subtraction trade bert and gregor move Robertson up and call up bergy and steeves reinvest that money in dmen that are cheap and cost controlled

 

[conFABulator]

If we could somehow keep Liljegren while adding those guys that would be a steady steady defence for a long time.

We’d have to be pretty confident in our goaltending, Woll especially because adding 2 big money D’s means we might not have a lot to spend on a goalie.

Bottom 6 also looks kinda thin but we have Minten and possibly Cowen on ELC’s next year and PTO guys like Gregor can fill out a 4th line.

I think we need two top four dmen without giving up Niemela and Liljegren. This is how we shift the balance around as we need to. It seems like there are some options out there right now...Hanifin (re-signed), Chychrun, Parayko, maybe even Tanev (though his age and term are an issue).

Turning a Bertuzzi, Domi, Kampf, our first, and some "not top five prospects" (Hirvonen, Abruzzese, Lokkenen, Steeves) into two guys with term seems like the way we should be thinking now.

Replace our forwards form within. We have to be able to put some lines together with Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares, Knies, Jarnkrok, Robertson, Holmberg, Gregor, and then some kids from Minten, Cowan, Tverberg, Grebonkin, and maybe a Tsyplakov signing. That's basically replacing Bertuzzi, Domi and Reaves with kids. I like the opportunity to develop guys and to have a proper D.

I also go with Woll, Hildeby and Jones next year.

This might not be a cup team next year, but we make some important changes to our structure that position us for a nice window with all of the players above and lots of money to spend with Tavares coming in cheaper and the cap going up.

 

[JEI]

Treliving would never do it, but they should really punt almost every single pending UFA out. It's not like they've done anything in the last 3 months anyway.

I think there's a world where they can move Bertuzzi in a deal for more offensive output (and that team could essentially flip him for picks). Wonder if that could work in a deal with someone like Washington..? (Mantha, Dowd, Jensen). Think Leafs would include a 1st with names like those.