Trades and UFA’s - Trade Deadline Edition

[nuck]

Vegas won with their 4th string goalie last season.
Vegas made it to the Finals with Dmen where NHL teams didn’t want.
If people can’t see that and still think Keefe is great, he just needed better players….
To me, a Keefe is just like any other NHL coach, nothing special about him.
Good- Great coach are coaches that can juice everything and more out of the players and have a system where it covers players shortcomings. Most importantly, hold players accountable every shift, every game….
Keefe don’t know how to do that. Maybe he does but the players just didn’t care.

And Vegas is on their third coach since 2020 and they have a Cup. With no $11M players WTF? What are we waiting for? What is the Shanaplan timetable? Why won't he change anything?

 

[pspot]

I’d see if you could get a d with term for an expiring + . Roll the dice on someone like jones (with retention ) or paryako

Bertuzzi and prospect

 

[hamzarocks]

Note about Tavares. On the season he's shooting 7.5% .. his career average is 12.9%

If he was up to hit average he'd have 8 more goals and up to 20 on the season, while bringing his scoring back closer to PPG.

He's struggled but there is also some bad luck there.

Doesnt sh% go down as you decline/age?

You get less quality looks, shot speed maybe a bit slower, hands arent as good so worse at breakaways and tips etc

I think JT is finally producing how he plays rather than outproducing his actual impact like he dud last year and half

 

[horner]

That was an ongoing discussion prior to the game, and stating facts to counter false claims is not propaganda. It is countering propaganda.
If we want to stretch it out further, then over 5 competitive years, our rental transactions break down as:

1st/2nd/2nd/3rd/3rd/4th/4th/4th/6th/Sandin/Engvall/Dermott/Ritchie
for
O'Rielly (75% retained)/Foligno (75% retained)/Schenn/Lyubushkin/Acciari/Galchenyuk/Blackwell/Gustafsson/Nash/Rittich/Hutton

That's not unreasonable at all. And that's with Dubas not even being given a chance to make any of O'Rielly/Schenn/Acciari/Gustafsson more than rentals.

Top teams in this league buy rentals, and you will never get away from that, but our future was not mortgaged at any point. We drafted well, supplemented well through FA/NCAA/overseas, didn't trade any of our top prospects, added extra picks through pick trades and taking on meaningless LTIR, etc. We can go back and forth over different transactions, but the overall fact of the matter is that our prospect pool was replenished, it's healthy, we've had more internal prospect help this year than any year since the post-rebuild dump in 2016, and there are plenty of promising prospects to come. It's the least of our concerns right now.

The only problem is that with the way our cap is you need ELC contacts
You can't go in every year.
Last trade deadline how many players did we bring in
Take a look at Vegas they have all there 1st and 2nd rd pks for the next 3 yrs and they won a cup
I hope this practice ends with Treliving
Thank good we keep our 1st last yr
This yr we probably need 5 players this is not the year
Our bottom 6 defense and goaltending is not good enough right now
Build this for when JT's contract is up I've always that that was the time to go for it

 

[Legion34]

That was an ongoing discussion prior to the game, and stating facts to counter false claims is not propaganda. It is countering propaganda.
If we want to stretch it out further, then over 5 competitive years, our rental transactions break down as:

1st/2nd/2nd/3rd/3rd/4th/4th/4th/6th/Sandin/Engvall/Dermott/Ritchie
for
O'Rielly (75% retained)/Foligno (75% retained)/Schenn/Lyubushkin/Acciari/Galchenyuk/Blackwell/Gustafsson/Nash/Rittich/Hutton

That's not unreasonable at all. And that's with Dubas not even being given a chance to make any of O'Rielly/Schenn/Acciari/Gustafsson more than rentals.

Top teams in this league buy rentals, and you will never get away from that, but our future was not mortgaged at any point. We drafted well, supplemented well through FA/NCAA/overseas, didn't trade any of our top prospects, added extra picks through pick trades and taking on meaningless LTIR, etc. We can go back and forth over different transactions, but the overall fact of the matter is that our prospect pool was replenished, it's healthy, we've had more internal prospect help this year than any year since the post-rebuild dump in 2016, and there are plenty of promising prospects to come. It's the least of our concerns right now.

Foligno was a 1st too. So it has to be 2 firsts unless we got one back?

Most of those were expiring contracts that didn’t re sign and a bunch had 0 playoff games.

I like most of what dubas did. I agreed with you on the vast majority of things. But not everything he did was perfect.

We have no prospects that have developed into top 2 line players.

We have a bunch of maybes. Sandin. Lilly Robby had better pedigree/careers and they haven’t turned out.

You just saying he drafted well and replenished by NCAA doesn’t mean anything. It is not in any way a factual statement Who cares if the marlies have good players. You have no idea whether these players will develop. There is no way to prove that they will.

There have been no legit top talent players that stuck. It’s the core 4, Rielly and a revolving cast of characters.

We have mortgaged tons of picks for probably less than 100 games total and 1 playoff round win

He over spent and didn’t deliver in the playoffs.

 

[Ports]

You have some players start to age into regression, but you simultaneously have some players start to age into improvements. That's pretty normal, and we've created top tier teams through worse. The core 4 are taking up the least percentage of the cap than they ever have post-ELC. We have multiple graduating prospects, and more prospect help than we've had since 2016. We had a ton of cap space to re-sign players like Acciari or Schenn, or sign anybody else to shape the team into anything. We weren't tied to anything goaltending-wise. There is no excuse to not have maintained as a top tier team.

They’re far from a top tier team. A top tier team doesn’t lose out in the first round of the playoffs six out of seven years. It‘s beyond me why mediocrity is good enough for some Leaf fans.

 

[Dreakmur]

They’re far from a top tier team. A top tier team doesn’t lose out in the first round of the playoffs six out of seven years. It‘s beyond me why mediocrity is good enough for some Leaf fans.

Expected Cups....

 

[horner]

They’re far from a top tier team. A top tier team doesn’t lose out in the first round of the playoffs six out of seven years. It‘s beyond me why mediocrity is good enough for some Leaf fans.

I agree

 

[Mitch nylander]

Foligno was a 1st too. So it has to be 2 firsts unless we got one back?

Most of those were expiring contracts that didn’t re sign and a bunch had 0 playoff games.

I like most of what dubas did. I agreed with you on the vast majority of things. But not everything he did was perfect.

We have no prospects that have developed into top 2 line players.

We have a bunch of maybes. Sandin. Lilly Robby had better pedigree/careers and they haven’t turned out.

You just saying he drafted well and replenished by NCAA doesn’t mean anything. It is not in any way a factual statement Who cares if the marlies have good players. You have no idea whether these players will develop. There is no way to prove that they will.

There have been no legit top talent players that stuck. It’s the core 4, Rielly and a revolving cast of characters.

We have mortgaged tons of picks for probably less than 100 games total and 1 playoff round win

He over spent and didn’t deliver in the playoffs.

Sandin was traded for the Cowan pick.

 

[Legion34]

Sandin was traded for the Cowan pick.

Which was traded for McCabe right?

We have traded firsts for

Muzz
Marleau
Foligno
O Rielly
McCabe.

And got back first for
Kappy
Sandin

Right?

 

[Mitch nylander]

Which was traded for McCabe right?

We have traded firsts for

Muzz
Marleau
Foligno
O Rielly
McCabe.

And got back first for
Kappy
Sandin

Right?

Mrazek as well was traded for a first.

----
McCabe was a 2025 Cond' first.

---
If it makes you feel better Ceulemans who was used with the Foligno pick doesn't look like an NHLer, Bjornfot is a waiver wire DMan (Muzzin pick)..

Jarvis pick hurts though...

 

[Gabriel426]

And Vegas is on their third coach since 2020 and they have a Cup. With no $11M players WTF? What are we waiting for? What is the Shanaplan timetable? Why won't he change anything?

They won with a 10.5mil player.

If it was up to me, Keefe would been gone after the Habs series. As the BJs series was his first crack and he didn’t coach the team for over a season yet.
Changes would had been made after the Habs series too. Willie and MM will be trade to get a different type of forward and a Dman. Dubas would be fired, maybe Shanny too.

 

[Dekes For Days]

The only problem is that with the way our cap is you need ELC contacts
You can't go in every year.

Sure, ELC contracts are important, and that's why we didn't go in every year. We struck a balance, and then drafted well and got ELC value out of the picks we had/added (Sandin, Holmberg, Robertson, Knies, etc., and much more to come), and supplemented it with overseas/NCAA/FA ELCs (Mikheyev, Barabanov, McMann, Ozhiniganov, Lindholm, Lehtonen, etc.) and ELC-like surplus value FAs (Bunting, Spezza, Giordano, etc.), to bridge any dry periods caused by disappointing returns from pre-2018 drafts and the decision to dump the majority of our prospect pool into the NHL in 2016.

We went into 2018 with a depleted prospect pool, and then we added to a competitive team for half a decade, and had our highest drafted prospect die, and we miraculously come out the other side with a healthy prospect pool and a bigger influx of prospects (multiple on ELCs) this year than we've had since 2016, and somehow we're going after the guy who pulled that off? Baffling. Some people seem so blinded by individual pick trades that they refuse to see the bigger picture and end result.

Take a look at Vegas they have all there 1st and 2nd rd pks for the next 3 yrs and they won a cup

They've traded away a lot of futures over the years, but prospects often tend to get overlooked, because they don't have the flashy number and 'mystery box' aura.
Vegas may get to say that they drafted in the 1st round in 2021, but when he was traded away this past deadline, does that actually mean anything?

Foligno was a 1st too. So it has to be 2 firsts unless we got one back?
Most of those were expiring contracts that didn’t re sign and a bunch had 0 playoff games.
I like most of what dubas did. I agreed with you on the vast majority of things. But not everything he did was perfect.
We have no prospects that have developed into top 2 line players.

Sandin returned a 1st. Yes, expiring contracts that don't re-sign is the definition of a rental. All except Rittich and Hutton played in the playoffs.
Nobody is perfect, obviously. You shouldn't be expecting superstars where we'd be drafting, but we literally have prospects playing in our top 6.
Our 2018-2023 prospects also aren't fully developed, but we're getting actual value out of a number of them already, and many more are tracking well. It's the least of our worries.

They’re far from a top tier team.

I know everybody wants a cup, but we were a top tier team, and it's unfortunate and amazing to me that some people let something like one goal/bounce/call/save/etc. against one team, with no consideration for context, cloud their entire perception of what a team is. A 110+ point team is a top tier team. And regardless, whatever you thought we were before, the issue is we're worse now. That should never have happened, and it's unacceptable.

 

[Phion Keneuf]

Saros+Tomasino+Fabbro would be a perfect package.

Knies+Samsonov+2024 1st+whatever else

Saros would be far and away the best goalie we’ve had in over a decade. Run a Saros/Woll duo. Extra year on Saros contract, buys Woll some time to solidify being a legit 1G and show he can stay healthy. Can look to extend Saros.

Tomasino is a skilled but defensively responsible player who can play all 3 F positions ala Jarnkrok. He’s getting the Robertson treatment so may be a good buy low opportunity.

Fabbro just has the mould of a player who could really thrive beside Mo. Like Tomasino he’s also been scratched and misused. Both BC boys, Fabbro is fairly young still with upside, decent all around defender.

Rumours are the Preds want a core youth piece in the deal, Knies could potentially be that. Maybe Samsonov turns it around and acts as a mentor for Askarov. If not, they can let him walk. They get a potential 20ish range 1st rounder & whatever else is needed (additional picks/prospects).

 

[Dekes For Days]

Saros would be far and away the best goalie we’ve had in over a decade. Run a Saros/Woll duo. Extra year on Saros contract, buys Woll some time to solidify being a legit 1G and show he can stay healthy. Can look to extend Saros.

Saros was a consistently great goalie for years, but he's actually struggling a lot this season.

 

[rumman]

Sorry Gary, I had to stop right there as I was choking on my coffee.
I agree with your 12.5-13 assessment. No way I see anything less. This is what 90% of the fanbase wants. This core, carte blanche.

I would keep Matthews and Reilly and overhaul the rest. Too much bad playoff vibes with this construction.

Not going to happen, we’ll be lucky they don’t extend JT to some Pejorative Slured number, Marner will end up somewhere between 34 and 88 in pay as painful as that is……..

 

[rumman]

They’re far from a top tier team. A top tier team doesn’t lose out in the first round of the playoffs six out of seven years. It‘s beyond me why mediocrity is good enough for some Leaf fans.

They like the flash and dash of 34, 16, and 88 in the regular season better than watching the grind to the cup for whatever reason. President’s trophy or bust…….

 

[TheDoldrums]

Since there's a lot of talk about trading 1sts, I'll say the McCabe trade was pretty good. 3 potential playoff runs at $2 million is incredibly valuable. It's also top 10 protected if things really go off the rails next year with the cap crunch. Gave the defense some much needed physicality, now also being helped by Benoit as well.

 

[Legion34]

Sure, ELC contracts are important, and that's why we didn't go in every year. We struck a balance, and then drafted well and got ELC value out of the picks we had/added (Sandin, Holmberg, Robertson, Knies, etc., and much more to come), and supplemented it with overseas/NCAA/FA ELCs (Mikheyev, Barabanov, McMann, Ozhiniganov, Lindholm, Lehtonen, etc.) and ELC-like surplus value FAs (Bunting, Spezza, Giordano, etc.), to bridge any dry periods caused by disappointing returns from pre-2018 drafts and the decision to dump the majority of our prospect pool into the NHL in 2016.

We went into 2018 with a depleted prospect pool, and then we added to a competitive team for half a decade, and had our highest drafted prospect die, and we miraculously come out the other side with a healthy prospect pool and a bigger influx of prospects (multiple on ELCs) this year than we've had since 2016, and somehow we're going after the guy who pulled that off? Baffling. Some people seem so blinded by individual pick trades that they refuse to see the bigger picture and end result.

They've traded away a lot of futures over the years, but prospects often tend to get overlooked, because they don't have the flashy number and 'mystery box' aura.
Vegas may get to say that they drafted in the 1st round in 2021, but when he was traded away this past deadline, does that actually mean anything?

Sandin returned a 1st. Yes, expiring contracts that don't re-sign is the definition of a rental. All except Rittich and Hutton played in the playoffs.
Nobody is perfect, obviously. You shouldn't be expecting superstars where we'd be drafting, but we literally have prospects playing in our top 6.
Our 2018-2023 prospects also aren't fully developed, but we're getting actual value out of a number of them already, and many more are tracking well. It's the least of our worries.

I know everybody wants a cup, but we were a top tier team, and it's unfortunate and amazing to me that some people let something like one goal/bounce/call/save/etc. against one team, with no consideration for context, cloud their entire perception of what a team is. A 110+ point team is a top tier team. And regardless, whatever you thought we were before, the issue is we're worse now. That should never have happened, and it's unacceptable.

First. The idea We can’t expect good players
Where we are drafting is foolish because where we are drafting is based on dubas trading picks and trading back.
That’s the issue. It’s a self made problem.

Having a bunch of ELC players that aren’t doing anything for you is not some big coup.

Lots of teams do that. Every team has 50 ish contracts. Every team could sign all their draft picks to ELC and put them
In the line up every year. It’s not a good idea.

Holmberg. Robby. Knies. Mcmann is nothing to be proud of. Heck they can sing me and play me on an elc. Add me to the list of successes.

The reason we have prospects playing in our top 6, is because we spent assets on expiring deals and got nothing out of them.

We have a revolving cast of characters as a 1 LW.

Knies isn’t ready. May never be. I have hope but it’s just hope. Robertson and holmberg/barabanov/galch/ritchie. etc is an embarrassment on a top line.

Every team has dime a dozen players that can chip in. Every team has prospects that they “can” play on their first line. They aren’t good enough so they don’t.

That’s the problem. Dubas was involved in the drafts since 2015. He was gm in 2018.

We have had zero actual impact players since Matthews.

Dermott sandin Lilly engvall Robbie steeves holmberg. Mcmann

Every team has these level of prospects. Signing college free agents to play on the marlies is irrelevant.

There is no proof that any of the players you decided are trending well are going to make it. They definitely aren’t knocking it out of the park.

We could have traded for players with term who are contributing now. Dubas way over spent on rentals and let too many players walk based on a ton of first round exits.

I like what he did for the most part. There is no factual basis to these claims. Just your opinion so you shouldn’t call it a fact

 

[Dekes For Days]

First. The idea We can’t expect good players Where we are drafting is foolish because where we are drafting is based on dubas trading picks and trading back.

Nobody said you can't get good players (and we have got good players), but our draft potential is fundamentally limited by being a top team.
Even putting aside the very normal movement of picks, you seem to be expecting lottery caliber-prospects out of late 1sts and below.

Having a bunch of ELC players that aren’t doing anything for you is not some big coup.

Not sure what you're talking about. Our ELC players are helping us quite a bit.

The reason we have prospects playing in our top 6, is because we spent assets on expiring deals and got nothing out of them.

No, we have prospects playing in our top-six and throughout our lineup because they're good prospects that are now ready for the NHL, and they've earned it.
As I showed, we didn't actually spend that many assets on pure rentals, and not sure how you're coming to such negatively skewed perceptions of our prospects and young players.
We've drafted really well since 2018 when Dubas took over, and our pool is in a good spot; even after half a decade of adding to competitive teams, and our top drafted prospect dying. I recommend learning more about our young players/prospects/pool, as well as ones around the league.

There is no proof that any of the players you decided are trending well are going to make it.

That's not true of course. Nothing is a guarantee, but there's plenty of proof that they are trending well, we have a number of prospects already making NHL impacts, and we have multiple more prospects that are all but guaranteed to be NHLers to some extent.

We could have traded for players with term who are contributing now.

We did. Though we also don't get to just dismiss the importance of past competitive seasons and act like everything done for them is worthless, just because we didn't end up winning the cup.

 

[ULF_55]

Mrazek as well was traded for a first.

----
McCabe was a 2025 Cond' first.

---
If it makes you feel better Ceulemans who was used with the Foligno pick doesn't look like an NHLer, Bjornfot is a waiver wire DMan (Muzzin pick)..

Jarvis pick hurts though...

Wonder if Washington would rather have Sandin or Cowan?

 

[Fogelhund]

Wonder if Washington would rather have Sandin or Cowan?

He's playing 22 minutes a game for them... Sandin that is. That's a lot of minutes for a guy like him... he's -8, and only has 11 assists, no goals in 36 games.

 

[Legion34]

Nobody said you can't get good players (and we have got good players), but our draft potential is fundamentally limited by being a top team.
Even putting aside the very normal movement of picks, you seem to be expecting lottery caliber-prospects out of late 1sts and below.

Not sure what you're talking about. Our ELC players are helping us quite a bit.

No, we have prospects playing in our top-six and throughout our lineup because they're good prospects that are now ready for the NHL, and they've earned it.
As I showed, we didn't actually spend that many assets on pure rentals, and not sure how you're coming to such negatively skewed perceptions of our prospects and young players.
You seem to have some unrealistic expectations for a team in our position. We've drafted really well since 2018 when Dubas took over, and our pool is in a good spot.
I recommend learning more about our young players/prospects/pool, as well as ones around the league.

That's not true of course. Nothing is a guarantee, but there's plenty of proof that they are trending well, we have a number of prospects already making NHL impacts, and we have multiple more prospects that are all but guaranteed to be NHLers to some extent.

We did. Though we also don't get to just dismiss the importance of past competitive seasons and act like everything done for them is worthless, just because we didn't end up winning the cup.

There is no evidence of this.

Since 2018 we have got a total of 26 goals from all of our drafted forwards. Robertson leads the way with 10 total goals 5 years later.

None have played a full season for us. Lilly is the only consistent contributor who has played a full season of games for us and he is on our 3rd pair and was scratched in the playoffs.

At this point we have replacement level players. None of them save Lilly are regular contributors.

No one is expecting lottery player talent (which does happen, but not common).

Our ELC players are holmberg Mcmann knies and Robertson.

3 of the 4 are rotating healthy scratches. Knies looks over matched.

Making an NHL impact is vague and many guaranteed to make the NHL to some extent is meaningless and you have no idea if it’s true.

We literally played some u of t student last year. He made the NHL.

There are thousands of replacement level players. We need actual contributors.
Having no cap space and putting in mac hollowell and guys who play 10 games means nothing

None of what you have said is factual or proven.

If we had drafted good players we would have more Than 26 goals from forwards

 

[Dekes For Days]

There is no evidence of this.

There is, if you bothered to look, instead of making incorrect assumptions and claims about our young players/prospects/pool.
I recommend starting off by reading through our prospect thread. Some well-informed people in there.

Since 2018 we have got a total of 26 goals from all of our drafted forwards.

Prospects take time to go from draft pick to contributing NHLer on a competitive team. Your expectations are way off.

We need actual contributors.

We have actual contributors, and you write them off as nothing.

 

[weems]

He's playing 22 minutes a game for them... Sandin that is. That's a lot of minutes for a guy like him... he's -8, and only has 11 assists, no goals in 36 games.

This is starting to look like a very strong move by Dubas.
Now obviously the selection of Cowan makes it look this way and things could have turned out very different if we picked a dud.
Not sure if we sold high on Sandin but definitely looks like he still has the same shortcomings that he did here and needs very soft deployment.
On a championship team, bottom pairing guy that can bring some puck moving ability, has some physicality and can run a PP but also is very suspect defensively and doesn't have great footspeed.