Trades and UFA’s - Trade Deadline Edition

[Dragao6]

I’m all for getting assets for ufas
Always have been
Bertuzzi name is coming up allot now but he signed a 1 year and I believe his true value is gonna be in playoffs when games get harder

 

[Evilhomer]

I’m all for getting assets for ufas
Always have been
Bertuzzi name is coming up allot now but he signed a 1 year and I believe his true value is gonna be in playoffs when games get harder

The Leafs are neither missing the playoffs nor trading Bertuzzi, so the whole idea is silly.

 

[Namikaze Minato]

We won again! Lets trade our top assets for a LHD and like a 5th round pick to get Rielly a partner, its working you guys!

 

[TMLAM34]

Not sure why people want to trade Bertuzzi, if we can sign him to a long term deal at a little less of a cap hit than now I’d be all for that.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[Buds17]

Not sure why people want to trade Bertuzzi, if we can sign him to a long term deal at a little less of a cap hit than now I’d be all for that.

I couldn't endorse the notion of trading him while competing in the playoffs remains an achievable goal for the team. I also haven't seen enough yet to warrant that next contract with the team.

 

[arso40]

Not sure why people want to trade Bertuzzi, if we can sign him to a long term deal at a little less of a cap hit than now I’d be all for that.

I don’t care to trade him but we could and get a defencemen for him for sure and actually play robertson doesn’t sound like the worst idea

 

[rumman]

You can’t be bold and shake this team up without moving a key member of the core.

Delete.

 

[rumman]

I can like Nylander, a lot, and still not like the contract.

However, I'd say Leafs probably got what they paid for when they signed Treliving.

In saying that, perhaps we have to give it more than half a season?

New GM needs time, but other than Jones and Benoit he’s pretty much shit the bed This far…….

 

[Dekes For Days]

The previous Dubas regime was not strong in selecting for defensemen in the draft, free agency or trades and struggled to assign value to them, and focused the majority of their effort on forward tinkering. Hesitated to put cap into that position.

Literally all of that is just flat out not true.
30% of an active roster in any given game is defensemen. 31.4% of our draft picks under Dubas were defensemen, including 37.5% of our picks from the first 3 rounds.
We allocated more cap to defense every year under Dubas, compared to this year.
He brought in a number of quality defensemen through free agency and trade, including a top pairing defenseman and a #2/3 long term, and multiple other top-4 defensemen.
The only time we've had good defensive results in ages is under him. Every single year, for a decade before him, we ranged from a bottom 10 defensive team to worst defensive team in the league. We also built a forward group under him that was strong defensively.

 

[Stephen]

Literally all of that is just flat out not true.
30% of an active roster in any given game is defensemen. 31.4% of our draft picks under Dubas were defensemen, including 37.5% of our picks from the first 3 rounds.
We allocated more cap to defense every year under Dubas, compared to this year.
He brought in a number of quality defensemen through free agency and trade, including a top pairing defenseman and a #2/3 long term, and multiple other top-4 defensemen.
The only time we've had good defensive results in ages is under him. Every single year, for a decade before him, we ranged from a bottom 10 defensive team to worst defensive team in the league. We also built a forward group under him that was strong defensively.

Dubas was GM between 2018-2023 so when you say “the only time we’ve had good defensive results is under him” well he’s basically competing against himself and half a Treliving transition year…

Leafs needed to add a second Muzzin to the mix when we had Muzzin and that would have put them into serious conversations about having contender defense.

And yet they just sat back and we’re never proactive on watching Muzzin and Brodie decline. Couldn’t move off these guys everyone said. Well, what about Tampa and McDonagh?

Then consider the trade assets used to acquire a Jake McCabe on retention. Meanwhile look at the price paid for H. Lindholm and Ekholm. Or for that matter look at the draft capital wasted on little Nick Foligno tweaks vs what Colorado paid for Devon Toews.

Drafting for defensemen? The first and last first round pick used on a defenseman under Dubas was Rasmus Sandin. Depth chart? Topi Niemela with upside and an army of small puck movers.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

look at the draft capital wasted on little Nick Foligno

Hey now, we don't bring up that name around these parts man.
1st round pick for a plug with back issues smh.

 

[MarMarSab3]

New GM needs time, but other than Jones and Benoit he’s pretty much shit the bed This far…….

Benoit - Good
Jones - Good
Lagesson - Good
Gregor - Average
Domi - Average (being improperly utilized)
Bertuzzi - Bad
Reeves - Bad
Klingberg - Bad
Kampf re-signing - Bad
Nylander re-sign - Bad

So far not very impressed

 

[Larcos_Unal]

Benoit - Good
Jones - Good
Lagesson - Good
Gregor - Average
Domi - Average (being improperly utilized)
Bertuzzi - Bad
Reeves - Bad
Klingberg - Bad
Kampf re-signing - Bad
Nylander re-sign - Bad

So far not very impressed

My big worry is that Bundy:

1. Looked at the D and thought it was good enough
2. Thought Klingberg was the missing piece

Both points are absolutely crushing to any faith I have in this guy

 

[LeafParade]

It is not only the guys he signed... its the fact his top priority out of the gates was Reaves.

 

[Buds17]

My big worry is that Bundy:

1. Looked at the D and thought it was good enough
2. Thought Klingberg was the missing piece

Both points are absolutely crushing to any faith I have in this guy

Can't imagine Treliving thought the blueline was good enough since he apparently was interested in acquiring Desharnais (in exchange for Lafferty), Zadorov and Tanev (CGY did not want to retain on Zadorov). Klingberg was at least a reasonable, and unfortunately expensive, gamble on addressing a need for offence from the blueline.

Confidence level in the GM is TBD, but I also don't know that he's had either the time or opportunity thus far to accomplish all that much.

 

[rumman]

My big worry is that Bundy:

1. Looked at the D and thought it was good enough
2. Thought Klingberg was the missing piece

Both points are absolutely crushing to any faith I have in this guy

impossible to argue with this statement..........

 

[Hockey 4 Life]

Bertuzzi + for Roy from LA is the move that I think could work. Resign Roy and target Forsling as UFA.

Reilly. Roy
Forsling. Liljegren
Benoit. Rhd

For next season.

 

[TMLAM34]

Bertuzzi + for Roy from LA is the move that I think could work. Resign Roy and target Forsling as UFA.

Reilly. Roy
Forsling. Liljegren
Benoit. Rhd

For next season.

Bertuzzi would fit like a glove on that LA team IMO.

 

[Mckay]

It is not only the guys he signed... its the fact his top priority out of the gates was Reaves.

Just because it was first to be done, doesn’t mean that was his priority. No need to be disingenuous.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Dubas was GM between 2018-2023 so when you say “the only time we’ve had good defensive results is under him” well he’s basically competing against himself and half a Treliving transition year…

No, he's competing against Fletcher, Burke, Nonis, Lou, and Treliving, over a time period of 16 years. And that's just how far back the records go. Us being bad defensively likely goes back further than that. Looking at another site that goes another year back to 2007-2008 (under JFJ), we were 28th.

We were repeatedly among the worst in the league defensively for at least over a decade, across multiple GMs. Dubas remakes our defense within a couple years - adding multiple high-end defensemen, good defensive depth, and defensive proficiency in our forward group - while spending a higher percentage of draft picks on defensemen than exist on an active roster, turning us into a top-10 defensive team for multiple years, and you're out here trying to claim that he ignored defense.

If you want ignoring defense, maybe look to the guy that came in, immediately allocated less to defense, signed a bunch of the worst defensive players in the league, didn't replace our big defensive loss from the previous year, and tanked our defensive results, instead of blaming and falsely representing the only Leaf GM in the entire cap era that actually did something and got good defensive results.

Leafs needed to add a second Muzzin to the mix when we had Muzzin and that would have put them into serious conversations about having contender defense.
And yet they just sat back and we’re never proactive on watching Muzzin and Brodie decline. Couldn’t move off these guys everyone said. Well, what about Tampa and McDonagh?

Adding a 2nd Muzzin to the mix while we had Rielly, Muzzin, and Brodie already in the mix would not have been worth the cost. For the entire time we had those 3, we already had a contender defense. Players in their early 30s who are still contributing do not need to be aggressively moved off; especially when they don't hold crushing term. Muzzin suffered a fluke, career-ending injury, and Brodie was an excellent player for us through Dubas' tenure.

McDonagh had more term and a higher cap hit, which forced their hand a bit more, but what Tampa got from dumping him was a cap dump in return, and an immediately worse defensive team. I'm not sure why your go-to example is something that isn't all that similar, and that hurt the team that did it.

Then consider the trade assets used to acquire a Jake McCabe on retention. Meanwhile look at the price paid for H. Lindholm and Ekholm. Or for that matter look at the draft capital wasted on little Nick Foligno tweaks vs what Colorado paid for Devon Toews.

We paid a great price for 2 and a half years of a retained 2m McCabe, and he was somebody that helped both in the moment and into the future, so not really sure what you mean. We can sit here picking apart every cherry picked transaction in recent history to put it up against deadline deals, but also worth noting that Ekholm cost more in cap, Lindholm cost more in cap and assets, and we don't know where he (or Toews for that matter) was willing to extend. And captain hindsight doesn't really factor in the risk assessments for us at the time.

And quite frankly, as much as I wish we got Toews, we didn't really need a Toews when he was traded. We already had Rielly, Muzzin, and Brodie at that point, no open top-4 LD spots, and forward depth was a bigger concern, and even more-so after injuries, which is why we acquired forward depth at the deadline that year, that everybody here seemed to be happy about.

And for the record, it should be noted that above, you're claiming that the GM was stupid for not moving off effective players in their early 30s in Muzzin and Brodie, and then in the same breath, you're claiming that the GM was stupid for not trading for somebody in the exact same age range, that actually had fallen off, and came with more term. At least pick a lane.

Drafting for defensemen? The first and last first round pick used on a defenseman under Dubas was Rasmus Sandin.

Or, put another way, Dubas spent his first two draft picks on defensemen, and used half of his 1st round picks on defensemen, while using a higher percentage of overall draft picks and draft picks in the first 3 rounds on defenseman than their proportion of an active roster. That is not abandoning defensive drafting.

 

[All Mod Cons]

My big worry is that Bundy:

1. Looked at the D and thought it was good enough
2. Thought Klingberg was the missing piece

Both points are absolutely crushing to any faith I have in this guy

I think it is more likely he thought:

Rielly is good
Brodie is shite
McCabe is decent but probably playing in situations that are too much for him
Liljegren is up and down
Gio is shite
Timmins is shite.

He then probably thought, what prospects and draft capital do i have to improve this group, and realized, there is pretty much f*** all.

He then probably thought, what in the f*** am I supposed to do with this group? Tell you what, I'll take a 1 year punt on Klingberg and deal with this shit later on.

 

[jaric1862]

If we're looking at long-term options, I want Parayko.

 

[Folignos Helmet]

Bertuzzi + for Roy from LA is the move that I think could work. Resign Roy and target Forsling as UFA.

Reilly. Roy
Forsling. Liljegren
Benoit. Rhd

For next season.

I say we need 4D via trade or UFA in the offseason, Lily could be kept in that 3rd pair RD role, but I am still not sold on him and would rather have a big body there, Lily is too vanilla.

I don't mind the Canucks approach, didn't get a stud, just a bunch of second pair types all with size, Soucy, Hronek, Cole.

If you can work towards that at the deadline, that works, as long as we aren't buying expiring deals.

Rielly - RD
LD - RD
McCabe - RD
Benoit

 

[All Mod Cons]

I say we need 4D via trade or UFA in the offseason, Lily could be kept in that 3rd pair RD role, but I am still not sold on him and would rather have a big body there, Lily is too vanilla.

I don't mind the Canucks approach, didn't get a stud, just a bunch of second pair types all with size, Soucy, Hronek, Cole.

If you can work towards that at the deadline, that works, as long as we aren't buying expiring deals.

Rielly - RD
LD - RD
McCabe - RD
Benoit

It's wild to think in Matthews 8th year in the league, we are only 4 dmen away from being to ice a decent unit.