Trades and UFA’s - Trade Deadline Edition

[LeafChief]

Not sure why there is some referendum going on regarding Timmins right now.

He's done a very good job as a 6/7. If you're expectations were higher than this, your expectations were out of whack to begin with.

 

[conFABulator]

The time to upgrade D is now. Not at deadline when cost of doing business is higher. There is no reason why Zadorov isnt a Leaf. For what Calgary got for him, the Leafs definitely could have matched that deal. When you wait until deadline, a player like Zadorov will go for double the cost.

I definitely agree that the time to improve the D is now (or soon)...maybe one more forward too. Why wait until the TDL? We know we need a Top 4 damn and we have the space. I think we also need a bottom six forward.

Having said this, I am glad we didn't trade for Zadorov, he is not a top 4 D. He would have eaten our assets and cap space and the upgrade over Benoit or Lagesson would not have been worth it. Same reason Ethan Bear wasn't for us.

I like trading for Tanev or Murphy or Savard and signing Puljujarvi.

 

[arso40]

Or clutterbug

 

[Sypher04]

Not sure why there is some referendum going on regarding Timmins right now.

He's done a very good job as a 6/7. If you're expectations were higher than this, your expectations were out of whack to begin with.

I don’t see any issue with saying he’s been fine (not very good as you claim) but he has no regular role on this team once we are healthy and upgrade the D. If we keep him as depth, all good with me, but he’s our 7/8 D

Not a matter of expectations for me as I didn’t really have any.

 

[Fogelhund]

I’m just of the opinion he doesn’t add enough to be worth needing to shelter so much. I’d rather have players that can be trusted in more situations. That said, I know it’s a double edged sword, as I have certainly been one of the people talking for well over a year at this point that our lack of offense from the backend is a big problem.

I'm just of the opinion, that when you have an inexperienced D man, you put them in a position where they can have success now, and gradually teach them, and given them more responsibility. Timmins is very good offensively, and relatively inexperienced defensively. He needs to gain some size too.

Lagesson is maxed out... he's a 6/7/8 Dman, and that's it... maybe we trust him more today, and that's fine, but he doesn't have the upside of Timmins, and we have to be patient, and see it through what he can be. Timmins is excelling offensively, has a great zone exit pass, and with patience, and time, he could become a decent, productive D man..

Or not... who knows.. but Lagesson is a replacement level player, who can be replaced any time.

Timmins is an inexperienced D man, at over 0.5PPG.... and that production and puck movement isn't so easy to find.

 

[Sypher04]

I'm just of the opinion, that when you have an inexperienced D man, you put them in a position where they can have success now, and gradually teach them, and given them more responsibility. Timmins is very good offensively, and relatively inexperienced defensively. He needs to gain some size too.

Lagesson is maxed out... he's a 6/7/8 Dman, and that's it... maybe we trust him more today, and that's fine, but he doesn't have the upside of Timmins, and we have to be patient, and see it through what he can be. Timmins is excelling offensively, has a great zone exit pass, and with patience, and time, he could become a decent, productive D man..

Or not... who knows.. but Lagesson is a replacement level player, who can be replaced any time.

Timmins is an inexperienced D man, at over 0.5PPG.... and that production isn't so easy to find.

If we had a spot for him (and I thought his upside was more significant) I’d agree but he’s headed for being a healthy scratch more often than not. Not because he’s been bad or anything, but just with Liljegren now healthy, Brodie back presumably next game from flu, and Gio probably not far off both he and Lagesson won’t be cracking our top 6 most nights.

I guess the bolded is maybe where our opinions diverge. IMO Timmins is not much better than replacement level either.

I would love to be way off but I don’t see what others are in Timmins. He’s going to need to grow a lot without the puck to be relied on to be anything more than a heavily sheltered offensive bottom pair guy

 

[Fogelhund]

Lagesson will sit before Timmins.

 

[Sypher04]

Lagesson will sit before Timmins.

Perhaps, we will see. But both will sit probably before Gio.

 

[Rare Jewel]

I'm just of the opinion, that when you have an inexperienced D man, you put them in a position where they can have success now, and gradually teach them, and given them more responsibility. Timmins is very good offensively, and relatively inexperienced defensively. He needs to gain some size too.

Lagesson is maxed out... he's a 6/7/8 Dman, and that's it... maybe we trust him more today, and that's fine, but he doesn't have the upside of Timmins, and we have to be patient, and see it through what he can be. Timmins is excelling offensively, has a great zone exit pass, and with patience, and time, he could become a decent, productive D man..

Or not... who knows.. but Lagesson is a replacement level player, who can be replaced any time.

Timmins is an inexperienced D man, at over 0.5PPG.... and that production and puck movement isn't so easy to find.

For this group, the type D that Lagesson provides is as important as Timmins offence, particularly when we don't know how long he'll keep it up for.

Hypothetically, we could acquire someone like Aho (NYI) or Coghlan (CAR) and see most of his production replaced. They're both 5-6 defencemen with different qualities.

 

[arso40]

For this group, the type D that Lagesson provides is as important as Timmins offence, particularly when we don't know how long he'll keep it up for.

Hypothetically, we go acquire someone like Aho (NYI) or Coghlan (CAR) and see most of his production replaced. They're both 5-6 defencemen with different qualities.

Or peeke

 

[Rare Jewel]

Or peeke

Not exactly in this case, because it's about the replaceability of Timmins.

Peeke would likely generate more offence here than he ever has in CBJ, but his main responsibility would be to play higher up and provide quality Defence like Brodie or McCabe.

So, I view Peeke as a Brodie replacement (in effect), which I don't know if he's up to.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I love Timmins' ability to make a 1st pass/break out the puck but in-zone ability to play defense, not so much.

4 pts, +4, 6 hits and 9 blocks in the last 5 games, seems to have shaken off the rust from that long lay off.

 

[arso40]

Not exactly in this case, because it's about the replaceability of Timmins.

Peeke would likely generate more offence here than he ever has in CBJ, but his main responsibility would be to play higher up and provide quality Defence like Brodie or McCabe.

So, I view Peeke as a Brodie replacement (in effect), which I don't know if he's up to.

Really just depends on where your trying to put him and if your trying to win or not if you think peeke is a Brodie replacement then having him on the third pair for a late picc seems like a win

 

[Magic Man]

Lagesson - 18 games, 3 ES assists, 8 shots, +0, 12 PIM, 30 hits, 28 blocks, 16 giveaways, 3 takeaways, 1:40 on PK in 15:13 per game.

Benoit - 15 games, 0 points, 10 shots, +5, 8 PIM, 42 hits, 24 blocks, 5 giveaways, 6 takeaways, 1:27 on PK in 14:50 per game.

What are everyone's thoughts on this depth chart battle? It looks pretty close. I favour Benoit, he has more experience, he's more physical and he has good takeaway/giveaway metrics. His added physicality being the tipping factor.

 

[Rare Jewel]

Really just depends on where your trying to put him and if your trying to win or not if you think peeke is a Brodie replacement then having him on the third pair for a late picc seems like a win

Maybe for another team, but for me, Peeke is too expensive for the bottom pair in terms of cap hit. So he's got to be in the top 4, and the player who's most likely not going to be there within Peeke's contract is Brodie.

 

[rumman]

Lagesson will sit before Timmins.

That would be a mistake…..

Perhaps, we will see. But both will sit probably before Gio.

That also would be a mistake……

 

[TMLAM34]

Lagesson - 18 games, 3 ES assists, 8 shots, +0, 12 PIM, 30 hits, 28 blocks, 16 giveaways, 3 takeaways, 1:40 on PK in 15:13 per game.

Benoit - 15 games, 0 points, 10 shots, +5, 8 PIM, 42 hits, 24 blocks, 5 giveaways, 6 takeaways, 1:27 on PK in 14:50 per game.

What are everyone's thoughts on this depth chart battle? It looks pretty close. I favour Benoit, he has more experience, he's more physical and he has good takeaway/giveaway metrics. His added physicality being the tipping factor.

Both have exceeded my expectations. I’d give the edge to Benoit however. But I love how both aren’t afraid to get in your face.

 

[Gabriel426]

I think some of it is due to experience , but he’s just lost a lot of development time that he won’t get back, there isn’t really any specific reason to expect him to improve leaps and bounds at 25. And unless he does, he’s just a very heavily sheltered 3rd pairing D.

Firmly disagree on the bolded. His play doesn’t come remotely close to those 2 so I think that’s excessive.

He stalled due to injuries instead of being lost.
I don’t see how he cannot improve leaps and bounds. Having said that, he could very well be just an average NHL Dman.

If he is 20-21 yrs old with 90 NHL games exp which is like he is either in the second or last year of his ELC while producing 0.5pt/game as a Leafs without PP1 time. I think most on this board will say he can be the next Fox or Makar. Heck, I think any fan base with a player like that would be hyping him as the next Makar or Fox.

 

[arso40]

Maybe for another team, but for me, Peeke is too expensive for the bottom pair in terms of cap hit. So he's got to be in the top 4, and the player who's most likely not going to be there within Peeke's contract is Brodie.

They have to retain for sure

 

[Rare Jewel]

Lagesson - 18 games, 3 ES assists, 8 shots, +0, 12 PIM, 30 hits, 28 blocks, 16 giveaways, 3 takeaways, 1:40 on PK in 15:13 per game.

Benoit - 15 games, 0 points, 10 shots, +5, 8 PIM, 42 hits, 24 blocks, 5 giveaways, 6 takeaways, 1:27 on PK in 14:50 per game.

What are everyone's thoughts on this depth chart battle? It looks pretty close. I favour Benoit, he has more experience, he's more physical and he has good takeaway/giveaway metrics. His added physicality being the tipping factor.

I'd say Lagesson, they've used him with McCabe against better opposition. Benoit is a nice find as well.


Timmins should be given credit as well for contributing in his way. You need a mix, and seemingly, the bottom pair has it now. But I would put any of them in a trade tomorrow if it were beneficial.

 

[Leafs1991]

Wasn’t he?

Far from it.

 

[Fogelhund]

Lagesson - 18 games, 3 ES assists, 8 shots, +0, 12 PIM, 30 hits, 28 blocks, 16 giveaways, 3 takeaways, 1:40 on PK in 15:13 per game.

Benoit - 15 games, 0 points, 10 shots, +5, 8 PIM, 42 hits, 24 blocks, 5 giveaways, 6 takeaways, 1:27 on PK in 14:50 per game.

What are everyone's thoughts on this depth chart battle? It looks pretty close. I favour Benoit, he has more experience, he's more physical and he has good takeaway/giveaway metrics. His added physicality being the tipping factor.

Benoit easily.

 

[Buds17]

Lagesson - 18 games, 3 ES assists, 8 shots, +0, 12 PIM, 30 hits, 28 blocks, 16 giveaways, 3 takeaways, 1:40 on PK in 15:13 per game.

Benoit - 15 games, 0 points, 10 shots, +5, 8 PIM, 42 hits, 24 blocks, 5 giveaways, 6 takeaways, 1:27 on PK in 14:50 per game.

What are everyone's thoughts on this depth chart battle? It looks pretty close. I favour Benoit, he has more experience, he's more physical and he has good takeaway/giveaway metrics. His added physicality being the tipping factor.

Although I think the team might have Lagesson ahead here, I might give the ever so slight advantage to Benoit at the moment (a bit better defensively, pending RFA instead of UFA). I wouldn't be surprised if both remain part of the rotation though (thus somehow skirting the issue of waivers).

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

Is Ottawa ripe for the picking? Zub might be an interesting RD target.

 

[Menzinger]

a bigger Barrie making a tiny salary is a good asset

Yep. Even if he doesn't develop further, a bottom pairing guy who can deliver smart offensive plays for a cheaper salary is a net positive asset. Not every guy needs to become a top pairing player to be useful