Trades and UFA’s - Trade Deadline Edition

[ULF_55]

Timmins for Luke Schenn. Who says no?

I do.

Funny, thing you bring up Schenn though.

Schenn at age 28 was in the minors.

Schenn was in the NHL early because of draft position.

I got piled on because I said he should have been in the minors in 2009. If he wasn't such a high draft spot, he'd have time to develop in the AHL.

Let's just keep Timmins and see what he becomes. If he doesn't improve it isn't a great loss. The worst scenario is he's dumped and develops into a valuable RD while the Leafs continue to search for RD.

 

[Buds17]

Timmins for Luke Schenn. Who says no?

Toronto? Treliving still would've had enough time to re-sign Schenn after assuming the role of GM here. The fact that he ultimately did not do so might very well have some meaning (ex. not being interested in meeting that price).

 

[Rare Jewel]

Timmins for Luke Schenn. Who says no?

Hopefully Tor

I think there's a deal (or 2) that could work with Nashville, but it's not that one.

 

[kb]

Timmins is finally rounding into form, and the lesser lights want to trade him for 20 to 40 games plus a 1st for a pending 30s UFA?

I will be nice and say incredibly short sighted.

 

[Kiwi]

Timmins for Luke Schenn. Who says no?

Us, I didn't like Schenn's contract when it was signed
I certainly don't like it any more now

Timmins is finally rounding into form, and thr lesser lights want to trade him for 20 to 40 games plus a 1st for a pending 30s UFA?

I will be nice and say incredibly short sighted.

Then people complain about our inability to develop players
Hardly surprising when we cut bait at the first sign of difficulty

 

[OVO16]

I'd like to keep Timmins for depth purposes. His offensive saavy might come in clutch in the playoffs when goals are at a premium and you need some offense from the backend in the middle of a series.

However, he should not be in the top 6 heading into the playoffs.

 

[Rare Jewel]

Us, I didn't like Schenn's contract when it was signed
I certainly don't like it any more now

The Schenn idea is done. It was cute that he came back, but they'll have to find someone else. I actually want to see a Rielly-Liljegren pairing get a run. So, really that physical D type is being filled by Lagesson or Benoit now.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

I do.

Funny, thing you bring up Schenn though.

Schenn at age 28 was in the minors.

Schenn was in the NHL early because of draft position.

I got piled on because I said he should have been in the minors in 2009. If he wasn't such a high draft spot, he'd have time to develop in the AHL.

Let's just keep Timmins and see what he becomes. If he doesn't improve it isn't a great loss. The worst scenario is he's dumped and develops into a valuable RD while the Leafs continue to search for RD.

It's impossible to know whether or not Schenn would have succeeded with more time in the minors because we don't have the counter factual to compare. He had to go down later in his career and completely rebuild his game, which is not a formula you want to be the norm. I wasn't a fan of Scenn's during his first go around with us when people were calling him an "elite shutdown defenseman" which wasn't even close to true. Defensemen like Schenn are usually the type to get better with more experience and as they get older because their knowledge and experience helps them better compensate for their other shortcomings. Luke Richardson (who was also rushed) followed a similar trajectory where he looked like a bust early before eventually settling into a steady unspectacular vet.

 

[arso40]

The Schenn idea is done. It was cute that he came back, but they'll have to find someone else. I actually want to see a Rielly-Liljegren pairing get a run. So, really that physical D type is being filled by Lagesson or Benoit now.

Yeah you can give them run but I feel like you need another top 4 right shot dman and maybe two if you get peeke or maybe we just get peeke and roll the dice I don’t know but I want peeke and I would like a established top 4 right shot

 

[Sypher04]

I think it’s a stretch to say Timmins is rounding into form. He makes bad turnovers and he doesn’t defend well. His offense isn’t good enough to make up for his defensive shortcomings and we have better options on both special teams already so I don’t really see him holding a role. I don’t think there’s much of any upside to trading him because he’s usable depth and has little to no actual value, so keep him, but he’s highly unlikely to be a building block to his defense or beyond this year. Healthy he’s probably #8 on our depth chart at defense.

Wouldn’t go that far but he’s not gonna be able to hold a spot In The top six come playoff time at this rate but peeke on the other hand

I was mostly just exaggerating, being silly. He might be a serviceable NHLer with experience, but currently he is okay at best.

 

[Sypher04]

I'd like to keep Timmins for depth purposes. His offensive saavy might come in clutch in the playoffs when goals are at a premium and you need some offense from the backend in the middle of a series.

However, he should not be in the top 6 heading into the playoffs.

I support keeping him for depth because you need guys, but I think it is far more likely he gets burned in the playoffs on a poor defensive read than delivers clutch offense.

 

[Gabriel426]

Timmins is starting to look good. His defensive awareness will hurt him but what most seem to forget is that due to injuries and stuff, he really had not played a lot of NHL games despite being 25 or 26.
Pairing him with a solid no non sense stay at home Dman will do wonders for Timmins.

 

[Sypher04]

Timmins has one of the best GA/60 of our D, at 1.9, while sporting a 4.5 GF/60. One of the better Corsi, Fenwick, the best On Ice Goals %, second best expected GA/60. He also has the best Shots against per 60... and he's second in PPG amongst our D.

But he sucks??? I don't get it.

He also is relatively inexperienced... you have to view him more like a 21 year old rookie in terms of patience. His numbers defensively have been great, and he's only going to get better over time.

Not expendable.

I know I personally wasn’t being serious when I said he sucks. Was mostly mess around and just taking a chance to take a pot shot at Holl lol but I think this is a pretty clear instance of the numbers not matching the eye test. Timmins’ individual defensive play has been quite mediocre.

I think we should hold onto him for depth purposes, but I hardly think he’s likely to become a player we would lament losing if he were to be moved on from.

 

[Gabriel426]

I know I personally wasn’t being serious when I said he sucks. Was mostly mess around and just taking a chance to take a pot shot at Holl lol but I think this is a pretty clear instance of the numbers not matching the eye test. Timmins’ individual defensive play has been quite mediocre.

I think we should hold onto him for depth purposes, but I hardly think he’s likely to become a player we would lament losing if he were to be moved on from.

Timmins makes quite a few careless or unforced mistakes and I think that is due to experiences.
He is 25, 6'2 over 200 pounds, Right Hand Dman who has less than 90 NHL games(including 12 playoffs games), while averaging close to 0.5pt/game as a Leafs. If he is 20-21 years old, most on this board will he hyping him as the new Makar or Fox.

 

[notdoneyet]

You can say what you want about Timmins but he has a great first pass and he just keeps getting points.

 

[Avilaj07]

Samsonov and Brodie to Carolina for Pesce and Rannta?

 

[LeafSteel]

Samsonov and Brodie to Carolina for Pesce and Rannta?

In a heartbeat but Carolina laughs and hangs up.

 

[Fogelhund]

Samsonov and Brodie to Carolina for Pesce and Rannta?

FWIW, Pesce is having a rough season. Carolina is playing a pretty quick game, and he's more built for a slower pace, and is having a tough time with it. We shall see if he rebounds with his new team next year, but it almost feels like his play is declining too.

 

[Scion]

Timmins for Luke Schenn. Who says no?

The Leafs... Timmins is a good player, I don't know what everyone's problem with him is. He is one of the few Leafs players who can make a play to exit the DZ with possession or extend OZP.

 

[ULF_55]

It's impossible to know whether or not Schenn would have succeeded with more time in the minors because we don't have the counter factual to compare. He had to go down later in his career and completely rebuild his game, which is not a formula you want to be the norm. I wasn't a fan of Scenn's during his first go around with us when people were calling him an "elite shutdown defenseman" which wasn't even close to true. Defensemen like Schenn are usually the type to get better with more experience and as they get older because their knowledge and experience helps them better compensate for their other shortcomings. Luke Richardson (who was also rushed) followed a similar trajectory where he looked like a bust early before eventually settling into a steady unspectacular vet.

Yes, we can only speculate whether career development would have been better with better management.

Schenn had good size out of junior, so there wasn't any concern about being able to handle himself against men, whereas if they aren't big "boys" there is more concern about development.

 

[Sypher04]

Timmins makes quite a few careless or unforced mistakes and I think that is due to experiences.
He is 25, 6'2 over 200 pounds, Right Hand Dman who has less than 90 NHL games(including 12 playoffs games), while averaging close to 0.5pt/game as a Leafs. If he is 20-21 years old, most on this board will he hyping him as the new Makar or Fox.

I think some of it is due to experience , but he’s just lost a lot of development time that he won’t get back, there isn’t really any specific reason to expect him to improve leaps and bounds at 25. And unless he does, he’s just a very heavily sheltered 3rd pairing D.

Firmly disagree on the bolded. His play doesn’t come remotely close to those 2 so I think that’s excessive.

 

[TMLAM34]

Timmins is under contract next year as well before becoming an RFA. He makes 1.1 million dollars. There’s literally no harm in keeping him. Unless we can clearly upgrade on him, it would be dumb to move on from him right now. This is the perfect time to give him some runway.

Benoit - Timmins could be a pretty good third pairing that’s big, young and cheap. Allows us to focus and invest more money into the top four, mainly a proper partner for Rielly.

 

[Leaffan1991]

The Leafs... Timmins is a good player, I don't know what everyone's problem with him is. He is one of the few Leafs players who can make a play to exit the DZ with possession or extend OZP.

He doesn't know how to play defence at all. Hes esentially a bigger Barrie.

 

[TheDoldrums]

He doesn't know how to play defence at all. Hes esentially a bigger Barrie.

a bigger Barrie making a tiny salary is a good asset

 

[TMLAM34]

He doesn't know how to play defence at all. Hes esentially a bigger Barrie.

Anyone coming off an injury to start the year is playing catch up hockey. This is a perfect opportunity to give him a stretch of games to catch up and see what we have in him. If he can stay healthy, improve his defensive game by a little and still provide the offence he’s provided, then IMO he’s a keeper for the third pair.