Trades and Free Agency Discussion - The Dog Days of Summer

[Kurtz]

We're contending, so we won't be trading Willy for futures - it would have to be a hockey trade.

Worst case scenario he's an own rental and we use the $9m we would have spent on him on some other UFA(s) next off-season.

 

[WTFMAN99]

We're contending, so we won't be trading Willy for futures - it would have to be a hockey trade.

Worst case scenario he's an own rental and we use the $9m we would have spent on him on some other UFA(s) next off-season.

The own rental thing is kinda frustrating just because we've seen some assets walk for nothing that could have fetched a decent return.

JVR, Bozak, Hyman, Barrie, Komarov, Kerfoot (to a much lesser extent) and Mikhayev.

Obviously we're competing so you don't just trade *every* pending UFA but damn some were no brainers like Barrie and Kerfoot, we had other options or the fit was bad.

 

[IPS]

The own rental thing is kinda frustrating just because we've seen some assets walk for nothing that could have fetched a decent return.

JVR, Bozak, Hyman, Barrie, Komarov, Kerfoot (to a much lesser extent) and Mikhayev.

Obviously we're competing so you don't just trade *every* pending UFA but damn some were no brainers like Barrie and Kerfoot, we had other options or the fit was bad.

Asset management under Dubas made me wanna bang my head against the wall.

You got Kerfoot coming off a 51 point season. Everyone and their dog knew he wasn't gonna touch that production again, but for some inexplicible reason Dubas keeps him, and ofc he's another one added to the list of lost for nothing. It's not some core player we're talking about - it's a very replaceable piece yet Dubas just won't cut ties.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Asset management under Dubas made me wanna bang my head against the wall.

You got Kerfoot coming off a 51 point season. Everyone and their dog knew he wasn't gonna touch that production again, but for some inexplicible reason Dubas keeps him, and ofc he's another one added to the list of lost for nothing. It's not some core player we're talking about - it's a very replaceable piece yet Dubas just won't cut ties.

Plus Kerfoot was paid his bonus on July 1st, his salary was 750k...someone would have bit.

 

[kb]

Asset management under Dubas made me wanna bang my head against the wall.

You got Kerfoot coming off a 51 point season. Everyone and their dog knew he wasn't gonna touch that production again, but for some inexplicible reason Dubas keeps him, and ofc he's another one added to the list of lost for nothing. It's not some core player we're talking about - it's a very replaceable piece yet Dubas just won't cut ties.

What would you be looking for in return for trading Kerfoot? He'd need to be replaced. So a futures package wouldn't work. What team is going to give up a player better (or even equal) to Kerfoot? I mean, sure, don't get me wrong....I wanted him gone....but whatever was done needed to make sense for the team. Trading him and bringing in someone cheaper and most likely worse doesn't help.

They got $3.5 million in cap space - a decent asset - just by letting him walk, so there is that.

 

[IPS]

What would you be looking for in return for trading Kerfoot? He'd need to be replaced. So a futures package wouldn't work. What team is going to give up a player better (or even equal) to Kerfoot? I mean, sure, don't get me wrong....I wanted him gone....but whatever was done needed to make sense for the team. Trading him and bringing in someone cheaper and most likely worse doesn't help.

They got $3.5 million in cap space - a decent asset - just by letting him walk, so there is that.

Depends on how you value the player.

Personally I didn't value the player much but I guess Dubas and co figured his skillset was valuable to the team.

When they signed Jarnkrok that IMO was the perfect replacement for Kerfoot at a cheaper price. Trade Kerfoot for a player who brings a different element to the team. With 750K actual money only being paid on his 3.5 cap hit, he was a good target for a lot of teams.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Tavares wont be taking much of a discount on his next deal

He will get 6M-8M depending on his play at 3 years term as this is what Stamkos likely comes in at

Tavares comparables,

Giroux, Stamkos, Malkin, Kopitar, on their old but still good player deals will make between 6ish - 8ish M

Tavares hopefully comes at lower pt around 6M so we get 5M back

He is still to productive and has the brand name value to come on a 3-4M like a RoR

I don't think he'd get more than 2 years at maybe $4M on a next contract. The best would probably be to kick him upstairs, so he can retire as a Leaf and free up the cap space and the 'C'.

 

[justashadowof]

I can't believe I'm doing this: don't dismiss outright what the Leafs lost with Kerfoot. Mr. Blind Back Pass was a reliable penalty killer, a responsible defensive player and an energetic forechecker. Hopefully someone emerges to fill Kerfoot's niche that was not filled by free agency (Holmberg? Knies?) Max Domi essentially takes over Kerfoot's slot but he's bringing a different sort of game entirely something on the order of a low rent Mitch Marner.

 

[notdoneyet]

I can't believe I'm doing this: don't dismiss outright what the Leafs lost with Kerfoot. Mr. Blind Back Pass was a reliable penalty killer, a responsible defensive player and an energetic forechecker. Hopefully someone emerges to fill Kerfoot's niche that was not filled by free agency (Holmberg? Knies?) Max Domi essentially takes over Kerfoot's slot but he's bringing a different sort of game entirely something on the order of a low rent Mitch Marner.

The problem with Kerfoot was he was an offensive black hole and Keefe kept insisting he played in the top six.

We should have traded Kerfoot for an example second rounder then used that piece and then added whatever was needed to upgrade. His 3.5 at the deadline might have meant we got a barbashev or someone like that who could have given us just a little more push.

Same thing with Holl. Keefe fell in love with these two and played them way more than he should have. Holl was a defensive nightmare in the playoffs

 

[Sypher04]

I agree with the sentiment that we could have justified moving Kerfoot out despite the fact we were playoff bound and most teams doing so don't trade their pending UFAs.

1) Because it was clear he'd not be retained this offseason
2) Because approaching the deadline he was barely making it onto the roster. I believe he spent a lot of those games on the 4th line.
3) Moving out Kerfoot's money at the deadline would have lessened the need to pay extra for retention on the other moves we were making like O'Reilly.

I think keeping Kerfoot at last year's deadline was in fact a mistake.

 

[notDatsyuk]

All academic, as there is zero chance Tavares would waive his NMC though, but we’ve been over that many times.

The point is that we're only stuck with JT's contract for two more years, whereas Willy will be a better player for a lot longer.

Dumping Willy just because there will be two players making a total of $20M on the second line isn't logical.

 

[Avilaj07]

To Toronto-
Hanifin
Mangiapane
Backlund


To Calgary-
Nylander
Brodie
Robertson
Lafferty

Bertuzzi-Matthews-Marner
Domi-Tavares-Mangiapane
Knies-Backlund-Jarnkrok
Gregor-Kampf-Reaves

Rielly-Hanifin
McCabe-Klingberg
Benoit-Liljegren
Giordano

 

[SprDaVE]

We're contending, so we won't be trading Willy for futures - it would have to be a hockey trade.

Worst case scenario he's an own rental and we use the $9m we would have spent on him on some other UFA(s) next off-season.

The time to trade Nylander for mostly futures was around the draft. It gives the team ammo for other deals and restocks part of the team that can help moving forward. It didn't have to be purely prospects and picks. But now that the season is pretty much around the corner, it doesn't make sense to do that anymore since most teams are set and ready to go.

 

[therealkoho]

To Toronto-
Hanifin
Mangiapane
Backlund


To Calgary-
Nylander
Brodie
Robertson
Lafferty

Bertuzzi-Matthews-Marner
Domi-Tavares-Mangiapane
Knies-Backlund-Jarnkrok
Gregor-Kampf-Reaves

Rielly-Hanifin
McCabe-Klingberg
Benoit-Liljegren
Giordano

I dunno Backlund is a UFA next year and I don't think I'd resign him as he'll be turning 35 in May Much rather go with Blake Coleman as he has 4x4.9 left, but if you really want a C, go with Lindholm who has a year left @4.85 and have Ruzicka included

Noah Hanifan smooth as smooth can be but is a little less physical than Klingberg if you catch my drift. He's coming into UFA and has mentioned that Canada isn't quite up to his Yankee sensibilities, he want's to be a Bruin. Rasmus Andersson has 3 yrs left at 4.5 and would be the preferred target. He's a guy who eats minutes, plays well in all situations

as far as Noah Gregor goes, when Calgary could have had him for nothing they didn't bite

so looking like this if they bite

Lindholm
Andersson
Ruzicka

For
Nylander
Brodie
Robertson

Bert - Matthews - Marner
Knies - Lindholm - JT
Steeves - Domi - Jarnkrok
McMann - Kampf - Ruzicka

Reilly - Andersson
McCabe - Liljegren
Benoit - Klingberg
Gio

although even with Andersson being an upgrade on Brodie, I'm still not overly happy with the D

 

[WTFMAN99]

The only real trade is the Timmins one but if things worked out this way...keeping certain players instead of seeing them leave elsewhere...do you like this roster more than what we're projected to filed on opening night?

 

[Menzinger]

Not advocating it, but I won't blink if Timmins is traded. He's got zero connection to Tre, and the GM has already indicated he'd like to revamp the D core to a degree and he ultimately has to start somewhere.

I also don't see what motivation the Flames have for trading a ufa for ufa type deal at this point. They'll probably end up selling 1-2 guys for futures mid season if extensions with them can't be worked out

The time to trade Nylander for mostly futures was around the draft. It gives the team ammo for other deals and restocks part of the team that can help moving forward. It didn't have to be purely prospects and picks. But now that the season is pretty much around the corner, it doesn't make sense to do that anymore since most teams are set and ready to go.

Imo after the first week of July passed the Leafs essentially committed themselves to the extension route.

 

[justashadowof]

I agree with the sentiment that we could have justified moving Kerfoot out despite the fact we were playoff bound and most teams doing so don't trade their pending UFAs.

1) Because it was clear he'd not be retained this offseason
2) Because approaching the deadline he was barely making it onto the roster. I believe he spent a lot of those games on the 4th line.
3) Moving out Kerfoot's money at the deadline would have lessened the need to pay extra for retention on the other moves we were making like O'Reilly.

I think keeping Kerfoot at last year's deadline was in fact a mistake.

Regarding re-signing Kerfoot, who would have thought that another NHL team would have been willing to give him $3.5M aav for two years? Then again we did give Kampf $2.4M for 4 years.

Going with this thought, maybe the team could have kept Engvall at the trade deadline, moved Kerfoot instead, maybe added something else with that money or at least not needed to sweeten that O'Reilly deal as much in return for retention.

Still, I'm of the hockey school that you don't sell useful middle of the lineup vets at the trade deadline when you're a Cup contender. The ultimate goal is always a Stanley Cup. Kerfoot did score one game winning goal in last year's playoffs and wasn't a minus player.

 

[Sypher04]

Regarding re-signing Kerfoot, who would have thought that another NHL team would have been willing to give him $3.5M aav for two years? Then again we did give Kampf $2.4M for 4 years.

Going with this thought, maybe the team could have kept Engvall at the trade deadline, moved Kerfoot instead, maybe added something else with that money or at least not needed to sweeten that O'Reilly deal as much in return for retention.

Still, I'm of the hockey school that you don't sell useful middle of the lineup vets at the trade deadline when you're a Cup contender. The ultimate goal is always a Stanley Cup. Kerfoot did score one game winning goal in last year's playoffs and wasn't a minus player.

Yeah like I don’t think it was a huge detriment or anything, but I feel like he is one player we could have likely moved without too much negative impact.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Regarding re-signing Kerfoot, who would have thought that another NHL team would have been willing to give him $3.5M aav for two years? Then again we did give Kampf $2.4M for 4 years.

Going with this thought, maybe the team could have kept Engvall at the trade deadline, moved Kerfoot instead, maybe added something else with that money or at least not needed to sweeten that O'Reilly deal as much in return for retention.

Still, I'm of the hockey school that you don't sell useful middle of the lineup vets at the trade deadline when you're a Cup contender. The ultimate goal is always a Stanley Cup. Kerfoot did score one game winning goal in last year's playoffs and wasn't a minus player.

Yeah like I don’t think it was a huge detriment or anything, but I feel like he is one player we could have likely moved without too much negative impact.

Engvall's impact with the NYI in the playoffs was minimal, it was the biggest complaint with him and Mikhayev.

Engvall and Mikhayev didn't beat a goalie once in the playoffs as a Leaf if I recall, I think Mikhayev had empty netters or something.

Engvall going for a 3rd and then trading a 3rd for Schenn kinda made that a wash.

 

[Mad hatter]

The only real trade is the Timmins one but if things worked out this way...keeping certain players instead of seeing them leave elsewhere...do you like this roster more than what we're projected to filed on opening night?

I agree but I’m also curious to see exactly what we have with him. Defensively he didn’t show good at all but there’s definitely some offensive to him. If he’s a cap casualty, so be it but with the amount of games he’s played so far there might be something there yet, imho.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I agree but I’m also curious to see exactly what we have with him. Defensively he didn’t show good at all but there’s definitely some offensive to him. If he’s a cap casualty, so be it but with the amount of games he’s played so far there might be something there yet, imho.

I just think with cap allocation it made sense to re-sign Gus, as cheap as he is or try Timmins but signing Klingberg to such a contract made no sense.

We won the series with Gus in the line up against Tampa and our only game in the Florida series with Gus.

No idea why Keefe didn't like him.

 

[nuck]

What would you be looking for in return for trading Kerfoot? He'd need to be replaced. So a futures package wouldn't work. What team is going to give up a player better (or even equal) to Kerfoot? I mean, sure, don't get me wrong....I wanted him gone....but whatever was done needed to make sense for the team. Trading him and bringing in someone cheaper and most likely worse doesn't help.

They got $3.5 million in cap space - a decent asset - just by letting him walk, so there is that.

Kerf was a guy who could play some center but wasn't very good at it so he is a smallish winger who doesn't have finish,. It would not have been hard to replace his production for under $3.5M. He is a 30pt guy without top 6 minutes and line mates. Rodrigues signed for $2M, Domi for $3M, Kubalik $2.5M and thats without an asset back which they would get for a guy earning $750k in real dollars. How about they test drive Dylan Strome for that $3.5M? Whether KD thought AK had actually become a 50 point player or he didn't want to see the final shred of the Kadri deal gone, he made a bad call and 10 goals from $3.5M isn't worth it in a year where they will be trading futures for retention. It was predictable but not among his worst moves.

 

[kb]

Kerf was a guy who could play some center but wasn't very good at it so he is a smallish winger who doesn't have finish,. It would not have been hard to replace his production for under $3.5M. He is a 30pt guy without top 6 minutes and line mates. Rodrigues signed for $2M, Domi for $3M, Kubalik $2.5M and thats without an asset back which they would get for a guy earning $750k in real dollars. How about they test drive Dylan Strome for that $3.5M? Whether KD thought AK had actually become a 50 point player or he didn't want to see the final shred of the Kadri deal gone, he made a bad call and 10 goals from $3.5M isn't worth it in a year where they will be trading futures for retention. It was predictable but not among his worst moves.

I definitely get all that, but we would have been talking about this last summer.

The landscape would have been different from this summer. I totally get it, I wanted him gone too....but last offseason the pickings were a bit slimmer, and then you are at the mercy of UFA craziness with no guarantees.

Sometimes it would be interesting to know how the internal conversations went......was he a Keefe favourite perhaps? Only reason I can think of.

 

[nuck]

I definitely get all that, but we would have been talking about this last summer.

The landscape would have been different from this summer. I totally get it, I wanted him gone too....but last offseason the pickings were a bit slimmer, and then you are at the mercy of UFA craziness with no guarantees.

Sometimes it would be interesting to know how the internal conversations went......was he a Keefe favourite perhaps? Only reason I can think of.

Yeah. We will never have an idea what almost happened.

 

[Stephen]

Not completely serious but I wonder if Treliving will ever attempt to acquire Topi Ronni from Calgary to complete the collection?