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Trades and Free Agency Discussion - The Dog Days of Summer

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Stephen said:
Shane Wright seems like a player who has had a lot disruption to his development over the past 3 years and more question marks than answers in terms of what he'll become.
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It's unfortunate for him too. Seattle is pretty deep at C now too...

They have Matty Berniers, Alexander Wennberg, Yanni Gourde and signed Pierre-Edouard Bellemare in the offseason. He's not likely ready for the NHL, Seattle is in a compete now mode, and he isn't eligible for the AHL.... so he's likely to get eight games in the NHL as a winger, get a conditioning stint in the AHL and back to the OHL for him. A shame about the CHL rules, but it is, what it is.
 
Stephen said:
Shane Wright seems like a player who has had a lot disruption to his development over the past 3 years and more question marks than answers in terms of what he'll become.
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Watching him play through minor hockey and junior, he struck me as a boring but well-rounded player like Logan Couture.
 
Fogelhund said:
I mean Bjorkstrand has only gone over 50 points once, and has a career high of 28 goals and 57 points.

Nylander has outscored Bjork by a huge margin, including 87 points, and 40 goals last year... but you don't see Nylander returning Bjork plus?

Nylander is a pretty elite winger, and Bjork is the definition of average. More than anything Bjork is them moving cap to upgrade their wingers.
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Bjork at 5.4M will be better value than Nylander at 10M and Bjork's contract will expire at 31, not 36 like a Nylander deal would. Contracts matter in this league. You're also using Nylander's career year to define the player. It is far more likely that he never scores 40 goals again than he does.
 
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Kiwi said:
Also a lot of our UFA buying is bottom 6F and bottom 4D which are plentiful and are minimal risk
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Half of the Leafs top 6 are pending UFA's (assuming Domi plays top 6) and currently 1/2 of their top 4D are UFA's. Replacing those positions is not "minimal risk".

Kiwi said:
Yes, I'm referring to 4 trades

Did any team even come close to doing all of that this offseason? If you do one big trade your ahead of about 95% of the teams in the league and you have names like Nylander and Wright?
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You mean to say that because a trade involves Nylander AND Wright that it is unrealistic? Go look at what Pittsburgh did this off-season or Detroit.
 
Americanadian said:
Bjork at 5.4M will be better value than Nylander at 10M and Bjork's contract will expire at 31, not 36 like a Nylander deal would. Contracts matter in this league. You're also using Nylander's career year to define the player. It is far more likely that he never scores 40 goals again than he does.
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There’s a reason Bjorkstrand makes 5.4 while Nylander will be making 9-10. The gap between the two isn’t really close, Nylander is the superior player by far.

There’s also no denying Nylander has one of the best shots on this team, he just needs to release it more. To say he most likely won’t hit 40 again when he’s hit 30 multiple times and is only 27 is pretty crazy. If anything he hit 40 while being 3rd/4th option offensively which makes you think he’d easily hit 40 again being another teams 1st or 2nd option offensively.
 
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Would you take Alex Iafallo, Rasmus Kupari, Gabriel Vilardi and a first-round pick in 2024 in exchange for Nylander ?? That is slightly more than what Winnipeg got for PLD extended at 8.5mx8.
 
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TMLAM34 said:
There’s a reason Bjorkstrand makes 5.4 while Nylander will be making 9-10. The gap between the two isn’t really close, Nylander is the superior player by far.

There’s also no denying Nylander has one of the best shots on this team, he just needs to release it more. To say he most likely won’t hit 40 again when he’s hit 30 multiple times and is only 27 is pretty crazy. If anything he hit 40 while being 3rd/4th option offensively which makes you think he’d easily hit 40 again being another teams 1st or 2nd option offensively.
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If we're talking purely goals - Bjorkstrand scores at a 27 goal/82 game pace over the last 4 seasons, Nylander scores at a 35 goal/82 game pace - a difference of 8 goals per season or 23% less. 5.4M is 43% less than 9.5M. Again: better value per dollar, significantly better - and this is looking strictly at goal scoring which is Nylander's strong suit when Bjorkstrand is the better defensive player. On top of all that - Bjorkstrand's contract expires just as he enters his 30s so you aren't locked in to a significant decline. Nylander's most likely getting an 8 year deal where he will decline from day 1.

I picked 4 seasons to exlcude Nylander's terrible season but to also give a large enough sample.
 
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Americanadian said:
If we're talking purely goals - Bjorkstrand scores at a 27 goal/82 game pace over the last 4 seasons, Nylander scores at a 35 goal/82 game pace - a difference of 8 goals per season or 23% less. 5.4M is 43% less than 9.5M. Again: better value per dollar, significantly better - and this is looking strictly at goal scoring which is Nylander's strong suit when Bjorkstrand is the better defensive player. On top of all that - Bjorkstrand's contract expires just as he enters his 30s so you aren't locked in to a significant decline. Nylander's most likely getting an 8 year deal where he will decline from day 1.

I picked 4 seasons to exlcude Nylander's terrible season but to also give a large enough sample.
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The only difference would be playoff production, Bjorkstrand at a glance looks to be "okay"

Definitely you can utilize the funds elsewhere. I don't think we should be putting guys in the double digit millions onto our 2nd line at all.

JT nor Nylander can continue like this for our cap structure.

Matthews + Marner and then do what you can the rest of the way but 4-6M range guys on line 2 is what will work.

We really need to get a better defense.
 
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Americanadian said:
Half of the Leafs top 6 are pending UFA's (assuming Domi plays top 6) and currently 1/2 of their top 4D are UFA's. Replacing those positions is not "minimal risk".


You mean to say that because a trade involves Nylander AND Wright that it is unrealistic? Go look at what Pittsburgh did this off-season or Detroit.
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We do this almost every year, so why the hell are you pearl clutching over next offseason because we have pending UFA'S?

They can still resign Nylander, promote Knies find Buntings, sign Brodie's
We're actually pretty bloody good at it but I'm supposed to believe management aren't capable of that now? Based on what evidence?

So two non playoff teams, both in completely different situations than us trying to make themselves relevant again who didn't trade anything close to the value of Nylander

Sure, trade Matthews next and really up the realism 😂
 
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WTFMAN99 said:
The only difference would be playoff production, Bjorkstrand at a glance looks to be "okay"

Definitely you can utilize the funds elsewhere. I don't think we should be putting guys in the double digit millions onto our 2nd line at all.

JT nor Nylander can continue like this for our cap structure.

Matthews + Marner and then do what you can the rest of the way but 4-6M range guys on line 2 is what will work.

We really need to get a better defense.
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For me I look at it this way: would you rather Bertuzzi at 6.5MxM or 6Mx6+Bjorkstrand at 5.4M as top 6 wingers going forward (6.5+5.4=11.9) or Nylander at 9.5M+Jarnkrok at 2.1M (9.5+2.1=11.6) and I take the Bertuzzi/Bjorkstrand duo all day long.
 
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Kiwi said:
We do this almost every year, so why the hell are you pearl clutching over next offseason because we have pending UFA'S?

They can still resign Nylander, promote Knies find Buntings, sign Brodie's
We're actually pretty bloody good at it but I'm supposed to believe management aren't capable of that now? Based on what evidence?

So two non playoff teams, both in completely different situations than us trying to make themselves relevant again who didn't trade anything close to the value of Nylander

Sure, trade Matthews next and really up the realism 😂
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When you say the Leafs find Buntings every year (top line wingers making <1M) - which non-Bunting players are you referring to? When you say the Leafs find Brodie's every year (top pair D) - which non-Brodie player are you referring to? Also - when is the last time the Leafs entered an off-season with this many impactful pending UFAs? All of Brodie/Bertuzzi/Nylander/Samsonov are impactful players for this team. The only player of those 3 I can see taking a deal that can benefit the Leafs is Bertuzzi.
 
I woulda loved Hayton + Chychrun for Nylander +

From Arizona.
Outside of a very decent hockey trade that isn’t only futures - I’d rather just keep Nylander. Getting picks/prospects is fine, but we gotta push to win.
 
Americanadian said:
Bjork at 5.4M will be better value than Nylander at 10M and Bjork's contract will expire at 31, not 36 like a Nylander deal would. Contracts matter in this league. You're also using Nylander's career year to define the player. It is far more likely that he never scores 40 goals again than he does.
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Better players, are always better. Replacing an Elite player, with mediocre ones, does not make the team better, it just doesn't. I might have used Nylander's career year, but then you completely gloss over that I did the same with Bjork. You really take Bertuzzi and Bjork over Nylander and Jarnkrok? That's a complete no for me.
 
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Americanadian said:
For me I look at it this way: would you rather Bertuzzi at 6.5MxM or 6Mx6+Bjorkstrand at 5.4M as top 6 wingers going forward (6.5+5.4=11.9) or Nylander at 9.5M+Jarnkrok at 2.1M (9.5+2.1=11.6) and I take the Bertuzzi/Bjorkstrand duo all day long.
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Fogelhund said:
Better players, are always better. Replacing an Elite player, with mediocre ones, does not make the team better, it just doesn't. I might have used Nylander's career year, but then you completely gloss over that I did the same with Bjork. You really take Bertuzzi and Bjork over Nylander and Jarnkrok? That's a complete no for me.
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I like the idea of having more "weapons" - The flaw with having like 40M across the big 4 is it eats up such a chunk of the cap structure and if one were to go down, a big chunk of $ money is unavailable to you, such as when JT went down versus Montreal.

Nylander is certainly elite but I don't know if I can get my head around 9-10M on a guy on the 2nd line especially with JT pulling 11M too.
 
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Fogelhund said:
Better players, are always better. Replacing an Elite player, with mediocre ones, does not make the team better, it just doesn't. I might have used Nylander's career year, but then you completely gloss over that I did the same with Bjork. You really take Bertuzzi and Bjork over Nylander and Jarnkrok? That's a complete no for me.
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I don't know why the bolded statement is true in a team building sense. A team is the sum of its parts - and cap hit is intrinsically linked with player output, therefore value per dollar>absolute value. For me I think it's better to spread the wealth. The more scoring options the have the less variance there is in team outcome.
 
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After Nylander gets extended with his NMC, Phil can teach his new teammates how to flip off the entire crowd because a few Ottawa fans in the crowd booed the team.
 
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