WTFMAN99
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- Jun 17, 2009
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Trades and Free Agency Discussion - The Dog Days of Summer
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Namikaze Minato
Registered User
Though he was RFA with a $10 million qualifying offer, could have been ugly if he decided he didn't want to stay. Worked out fine for the Devils though!
PROUD PAPA
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- Sep 20, 2021
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Namikaze Minato
Registered User
Meanwhile only 6 years left for Dipietro....Just noticed the Devils are still paying 250k for 2 more years on Kovalchuks recapture penalty.
Lou and his 15 year contract.
Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
If Nylander is traded he should return more than Fiala did which as an unsigned ufa returned to the Wild from the Kings the 1st and Brock Faber who was one of their organizations better prospects (arguably in their top 5).
Though I'm expecting an extension at this point in the offseason to still be the always preferred course of action
WTFMAN99
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- Jun 17, 2009
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The only thing I struggle with is...we've had Nylander, Matthews and Marner...we haven't won, why are we married to the idea of keeping it together? Or are we just wanting to buy time until JT expires?
ULF_55
Moderator
Maybe not as much, as the Devils also got a rental period from Meier.
Devils had only 1 year of control though, just like a team would have with Nylander. Meier still had to be signed or he could walk, just like Nylander could walk at the end of the year.
The RFA status of Meier only impacted his signing amount, not the control the Devils had. Devils bought 1 year of RFA in the re-signing, whereas Nylander signing would be all UFA years.
Meier .7 PPG
Nylander .83 PPG
Meier .35 GPG
Nylander .34 GPG
ULF_55
Moderator
Yeah, the RFA status was meaningless beyond the 1 year of control the Devils had.
Devils were guaranteed 1 year of service from Meier, just like a team would be guaranteed 1 year of service from Nylander.
conFABulator
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- Apr 11, 2021
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That's a fair question and probably a good way to look at it.
Why do we keep them together? One answer could be that players develop and giving up on them early is often a big mistake. Stamkos, MacKinnon Pietrangelo, Ovechkin all took a long time before winning a cup. Kane, Toews and Crosby did it quickly of course. That was long ago though.
It's hard to get value trading a star player. You never win a trade when you trade a quarter for two dimes and a nickel. However, maybe it is not about winning a trade. Maybe it should be about making ourselves better. It might be the right move to trade Nylander for a second pairing dman and a middle six forward that have lower cap hits and a few years of control. In this case we upgrade the D, take a hit on F (hoping Bertuzzi, Domi, Knies and even Robertson can fill that gap) and we add cap space...not so much this year but next year when Willy's raise kicks in. I don't know if such a trade exists. I have been wondering if Oleksiak + Wright is a move they would make in Seattle.
Waiting for JT's contract to end is an interesting discussion. It does not mean he leaves necessarily...it SHOULD mean he stays, at one hell of a hometown discount. This is LITERALLY his hometown (remember the PJs), he has made a tonne of money, that money (+Covid flat cap) has handcuffed us a bit, and he is our captain that wants a cup. I am thinking closer to Gio or Spezza on his next deal. 4 x $2M? That would be great value and a real asset. I would not want a Malkin deal where he is still $6M on our cap.
Contrary to the belief of some around here, a brawl does not need to happen after every incident for a team to be close, or for them to have an all for one mentality. Cherry picking some dangerous incident in a 1 goal must win game where a brawl didn't happen (which you could do for literally any team) doesn't prove anything you think it does.
Looks like pretty identical responses to me. And heck, the Tampa one was much more noticeable, there wasn't an ongoing play to follow, and Tampa was up by 2 goals and getting a 5 minute PP in the latter half of the game, so much less risk or damage to the team answering there.
I guess Tampa isn't close. They'll probably never win, huh?
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WTFMAN99
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- Jun 17, 2009
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I'm open to moving Nylander if there is a good deal to be had...at some point, you need to fix the culture.
That being said, I'm the wrong guy to ask, I have soured on the majority of the team.
The thing with the names you mentioned is that they at least won rounds somewhat consistently, even if they got stalled in round 2 like Ovechkin and MacKinnon, the Leafs have won 1 round in 7 years with these guys. Stamkos went on a run early and they were close quite often. Pietrangelo with the Blues had at least a final 4 appearance to my memory.
I know the value is tough but sometimes it becomes insanity to think something that hasn't worked at all, will suddenly start working.
ToneDog
56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
With Tre, Bert, Max, Kling, Knies joining, I have some hope but the longer the negotiations for 34 and 88 go, the angrier the fanbase will become IMO. If they end up extracting every penny and shit the bed again, it better not come with a NMC cause my guess is, most of Leafs nation will want them gone.
justashadowof
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- Aug 15, 2020
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Usually what happens in a situation like this is the team barely misses the playoffs and that triggers a re-think about the composition of the team. But we've just been too good in the regular season. We're able to pull out wins and loser points on nights when we should've paid a price for a poor performance.
This season's lineup and situation has a vibe of transition. There hasn't been a long term commitment to anyone major this summer. There's never been a more mercenary feel to the lineup with two major stars on expiring contracts plus 3 sizable UFAs on 1 year "show me" deals. Teams in this situation can have a very good season but they can also go south quickly. And this team is no longer young, it's in its prime or older.
Americanadian
Registered User
Fiala was also an RFA when he was acquired by LA. He also signed at <8M until he is 32 which is a fair contract, Nylander is asking for 10M until his age 35 season. The gap between Nylander and Fiala is not big at all, definitely not 2M and Fiala expiring at a earlier age has more value.
Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
I think from the teams pov it's basically that.
You give an average GM Marner- Nylander-Matthews, and it'll basically make the team a lock to make the playoffs for the next 7-8 years. Which would be hard to pass up. On And Tavares off the books allows them to retool the salary structure of things.
It also doesn't preclude them from trading a player down the line
Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
With arbitration rights and a year away from ufa. I don't think that status is all that significant.
Nylander has better stats (Fiala with a career high of 33 goals) and imo is a considerably better playoff performer. The Kings got lucky with the timing of that contract extension though happening a few years before the cap jump
Americanadian
Registered User
When comparing Nylander to Meier using their career PT/GP is a flawed method to look at it. You ignore all context of who the players are today.
Americanadian
Registered User
You said he was a UFA when he was acquired. That is false. His arb status didn't seem to matter in the deal because he was signed to 8 years the day he was traded.
Nylander has marginally better stats and has one 40 goal season to Fiala's zero. Fiala's points and goals per game have been on par with Nylander of the last 4 seaons (their prime years) and Fiala has had a significantly weaker supporting cast. Nylander has had more points in the playoffs but is that worth 2M more? Their PT/GP in the playoffs in the last 4 seasons is 0.75 & 0.97.
Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
Fiala has broken the 30 goal barrier exactly once in his career so far (and is 27). And yes, Nylander has considerably more points in the playoffs and is much better at driving play/creating chances in that situation.
Using pts/game in the playoffs is a bit deceiving given Fialas limited games played, because in the last 5 years, half of Fialas playoff appearances has seen him produce 0.5 or less, and then he had 3, good games this year where he put up 6 points.
Regardless the point of the earlier post wasn't necessarily to debate the merits of Nylander v Fiala, rather to situate trade value. A return for Nylander st minimum should equal that earlier trade, and I'd expect a greater return if it actually came to it
The big thing is that Fiala came extension in hand. Trade and contract happened the same day.
8 year Fiala got a first and Faber, not question mark Fiala a year from UFA
Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
That extension happened after the trade went through. Wasn't a sign and trade. Kings likely got to talk with his agent for a bit, which a team would likely be given in a Nylander trade scenario
Stephen
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- Feb 28, 2002
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I’m frankly surprised anybody would claim insight into what playoff teams do for dinner on the road…
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