Trades and Free Agency Discussion - The Dog Days of Summer
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WTFMAN99
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- Jun 17, 2009
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That's the main thing I am getting at...I'm not saying Aho is better than Matthews...I am just saying the gap isn't *that* significant.
The term thing especially makes it an even deeper discussion but is the gap 2M? I don't know. Is Matthews 4M better? Definitely not.
Martin Skoula
Registered User
- Oct 18, 2017
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It’s crazy how Aho is elite defensively, Staal is elite defensively, Slavin and Pesce are elite defensively, Andersen is an elite goalie, Rod is an elite coach, and they allowed a whopping 10 less goals than us playing Big Mac Hollowell in front of the corpse of Murray with our inferior defensive forwards and idiot Keefe’s no brain system.
What’s even crazier is that Matthews played 200 more ES minutes this year than Aho and allowed 8 less goals than Aho while scoring 20 more lmao. 92-21 blocked shots lead for Matthews, more takeaways and less giveaways.
But yeah I’ll just take your word for it that Aho is elite because.. because.. well he just is ok!
Matthews on his worst day is better than Aho at his peak at both sides of the ice lol, this isn’t even remotely a debate.
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What the hell are you talking about?
Aho is a 1C with significantly better offensive production over his career, plays a more important position with significantly better defense and just got less than 10M over an 8 year term
Nylander thinking he's worth 10M is a joke and he should be laughed out of the room
Woah. You killed him man.
Martin Skoula
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- Oct 18, 2017
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I just don’t get it, no other fan base does this. You don’t like Matthews, think he’s greedy, don’t like his moustache, want him traded? Great I can get on board with that, I’m bored and I can go for a change up. Nobody else worships run of the mill top line players on other teams like some Toronto fans do, it’s so bizarre.
At least if it was a prime Bergeron ultimate leader who’ll get the Selke renamed after him we were talking about that would be one thing, but instead it’s guys in the 10-15 range for Cs in the league because they had the courage and extreme leadership to take a market rate deal after signing an offer sheet to go somewhere else. If Dubas drafted him like he wanted to, all we’d hear is that he’s yet another 5’10 water bug mercenary with no heart.
How about you don't be a stat whore and actually WATCH the guy play?
Your stat logic is flawed and if you don't understand why, you shouldn't portray yourself as someone who understands statistics in general. It's laughable.
Martin Skoula
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- Oct 18, 2017
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So he allows more goals with a better defense and a better goalie and a better coach but he looks better?
You know what you’re right, my bad.
I'll lead you down the path: What were the game situations? What were the scores in the games? What was the quality of competition in these scenarios?
Don't blindly go by a number you read. You need to undserstand the context behind it.
Martin Skoula
Registered User
- Oct 18, 2017
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I’m assuming you must already know these numbers since you’re so certain, this is your chance to embarrass me with your elite knowledge of numbers.
Oh no, you've done a great job of that on your own punching above your weight class.
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
- 83,096
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I agree with you in spirit that Matthews is a far better player than Aho. Completely. But the last sentence is the kind of sentiment that really gets the Leafs in trouble as the worst combination of arrgogance meets unpreparedness.
Aho is a legitimate top line center with 2 way abilities and is the best forward on a team as good, slightly better, or has different strengths than Toronto. Matthews has a better ceiling any given night though. But conversely any given night you don't give a player like Aho the respect he and his team deserves, they'll embarrass the Leafs and Matthews.
Just admit when you're wrong. No need to start attacking his logic. He utilized stats to prove his point. Using key defensive metrics, Matthews is far and away the dominant player. Heck, I've watched tons of Matthews and quite a few Aho games and never once got the impression that Aho was as good as Matthews in the defensive side on a consistent basis.
Your logic of "just watch him play" doesn't hold water. Give it up.
Martin Skoula
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- Oct 18, 2017
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Are we talking about the guy with 3 goals 4 assists and -8 in 17 career games against us? Can you show me the games he’s embarrassed us in? Me or any other fans being an asshole has no bearing on what happens on the ice, and what happens on the ice doesn’t look great for lil’ Sebastian. Fret not though, lil Sebastian is always in our hearts.
Namikaze Minato
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Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
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I mean, the David Ayres game jumps out immediately as arrogance meets humiliation... your attitude as a fan doesn't impact anything, but I'm sure the previous GM running his mouth about elite skill didn't help the room.
Martin Skoula
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- Oct 18, 2017
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Aho had a single secondary assist on the PP in a 6-3 game, what are we talking about here? Carolina is a fine team, I like their game a lot, what does this have to do with Aho and his capacity to embarrass us at will if we don’t give him the utmost respect he deserves?
Openly tanking teams like the Coyotes have embarrassed us, they’ve also embarrassed every single cup winner at some point. That’s hockey, shit happens over an 82 game season.
Where does Aho being the most elite sub-PPG career high 12th Selke voted player in the league factor into this equation?
notDatsyuk
Registered User
- Jul 20, 2018
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Not just Matty. You can do the same with Willy.
In more ES ice time, Willy was on for the same number of goals against, while on for more goals for.
Even per 60, the horrible Willy was on for more goals for and fewer against than the elite Aho.
Martin Skoula
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That one I could at least understand the context argument for with Tavares-Nylander getting sheltered starts. But that’s a double edged sword considering Tavares can’t backcheck at this stage of his career so it’s ambiguous which of the soft usage vs defensively vulnerable center outweighs the other.
I don’t want to come across like I think Aho is awful, I like his game and I’ve argued for the 4th OA for 8 + 34 + 38 trade with Columbus numerous times specifically for drafting Aho. I just can’t wrap my mind around pretending like he’s elite at anything any more than a Lindholm or a Petterson is. Great piece to have, but comfortably outside the top 10 Cs closer to 15. If he’s by far your best player you’re probably in big big trouble unless you’re deep with guys like Svechnikov, Necas, Jarvis, Teravainen, Slavin, Pesce.
I just can’t see him going head to head with Eichel, McDavid, Matthews, MacK, Point in a series and coming out ahead when he’s smaller, weaker, slower, not as intelligent, not even a little in their league as a shooting threat from distance, not strong enough to be a net front presence, I could go on. Doing some nice work on the PK just doesn’t tip the scales enough.
kb
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- Aug 28, 2009
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LaPlante94
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- Apr 12, 2011
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I didn't understand why people were suddenly arguing about Matthews and Aho but I just saw Aho got signed for 8 years. #1 C over there gonna be making as much as our 4th highest paid player if Nylander signs a new deal. Pretty crazy to think about. Sad thing is that deal is probably gonna be used as a comparable for Nylander now, especially since stat wise Nylander put up better numbers.
Bloody hell
One of our major competitors in the East just signed there mid 20's #1C who's been PPG in 4 of the last 5 seasons and has gotten Selke votes for under 10M over 8 years
William ******* Nylander who's been PPG once during his entire career, plays defense when he feels like it and plays wing seems to think he's worth 10M+
Our players are ******* delusional and we aren't going to win anything with these heartless overpaid chokers
Honestly I don't particularly like any of them and think it's time to seriously gut this core of losers
One of our major competitors in the East just signed there mid 20's #1C who's been PPG in 4 of the last 5 seasons and has gotten Selke votes for under 10M over 8 years
William ******* Nylander who's been PPG once during his entire career, plays defense when he feels like it and plays wing seems to think he's worth 10M+
Our players are ******* delusional and we aren't going to win anything with these heartless overpaid chokers
Honestly I don't particularly like any of them and think it's time to seriously gut this core of losers
TMLBlueandWhite
Go Leafs Go
- Feb 2, 2023
- 2,281
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Which NHL teams have improved the most this offseason? Rating all 32 teams
From most value added to least, rating each team based on whether they have more talent than they did at the start of the offseason.
theathletic.com
Florida, Tampa, and Boston all took steps sideways and backwards this year.
So did the Leafs.
Which team got suckier is the million dollar question. It's not the top teams the Leafs have to worry about much longer anyway. It's the bottom feeders like Detroit, Ottawa, and Buffalo.
Objects in the rearview mirror are closer than they appear.
Those teams all took steps forward. It's only a matter of time they're bound to get it right. It won't be long until they pass the stagnant Leafs.
When you blow out the future you need to contend.
Otherwise it's time to make changes. Instead of taking steps sideways and backwards. Which they have done again this offseason.
The saving grace is that they weren't the only ones.
AM is better than Aho and as much as I like the Aho deal at 9.75mil, I don't think it will change the value of AM.
It will send a signal that players like Aho do signs for 8 yrs instead of 3-5yrs deal.
What this deal essentially impacted is Willie. There is no justification for Willie and his camp to get paid higher than Aho or even a bit lower.
Aho is a much better player than Willie and between Meier and Aho contracts lie Willie's value and it is closer to Meier's numbers than Aho's numbers.
It will send a signal that players like Aho do signs for 8 yrs instead of 3-5yrs deal.
What this deal essentially impacted is Willie. There is no justification for Willie and his camp to get paid higher than Aho or even a bit lower.
Aho is a much better player than Willie and between Meier and Aho contracts lie Willie's value and it is closer to Meier's numbers than Aho's numbers.
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