Trades and Free Agency - 2022 Off-season

[horner]

Not sure - It would be hard to acquire Kane without that 1st round pick, in fact I am pretty sure it's mathematically impossible to get both Kane and Tanev on the roster unless someone is LTIR until playoffs.

Wouldn't give up a 1st rd pk in 2023.
This draft is going to be really good.
Would love to grab another 1st or mid 2nd rd pk.

 

[Fogelhund]

What do you mean? Isn't that the costs you said combined?

No.

 

[Dekes For Days]

No.

Ah, I see you put or in the retention cost. Probably could have just said that...

I think point remains that Kane double retained for 1 year would not cost 1st + 1st + Knies + Sandin + Robertson.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Wouldn't give up a 1st rd pk in 2023.
This draft is going to be really good.
Would love to grab another 1st or mid 2nd rd pk.

Pretty unlikely, team is competing at this point, likely won't care about 18-32nd overall pick.

Ah, I see you put or in the retention cost. Probably could have just said that...

I think point remains that Kane double retained for 1 year would not cost 1st + 1st + Knies + Sandin + Robertson.

No f***ing chance.

 

[ULF_55]

Ah, I see you put or in the retention cost. Probably could have just said that...

I think point remains that Kane double retained for 1 year would not cost 1st + 1st + Knies + Sandin + Robertson.

That is probably more than offersheeting Mac next year.

 

[Gallagbi]

That would be his double retention cap hit. Probably 1st, Knies, Sandin, Robertson for Kane at 50% and another 1st or 2nd + prospect for the second retention.

I cant see the 25% retention being that high when the actual salary is only 2.9M

 

[Fogelhund]

Ah, I see you put or in the retention cost. Probably could have just said that...

I think point remains that Kane double retained for 1 year would not cost 1st + 1st + Knies + Sandin + Robertson.

DeBrincat cost 7th OA, 39th OA and 2024 3rd round.

It would cost the equivalent of a 1st, or quality prospect to withhold half of his salary.

That leaves three pieces, picks or prospects for Kane. Do you believe he’d cost less than three pieces? Two pieces? Would you trade Marner if the return was a late first and Sandin/Knies/Robertson? Or any two of those prospects? Of course not.

Then you are going to have to pay someone to retain the $2.625 or whatever that second retention. What do you believe that price is?

Add it up.

 

[Duke16]

From a pure basis of making money work, the Leafs can send Kerfoot and Holl (plus futures) for Kane @50%.

Kerfoot and Holl are good flippable pieces for the Hawks at the deadline. They aren't the pieces that excited them, but can surely be turned into other assets in a few months. Money problem solved.

CHI barely gained an asset to take Mrazek and poorly gauged a DeBrincat return. I really don't see them (the people actually in place making the transaction) getting a king's ransom for one year of Kane. Could honestly see the additional assets on top of Kerfoot/Holl being of similar or even slightly lesser value than what TOR paid for two years of Jake Muzzin.

 

[Dekes For Days]

DeBrincat cost 7th OA, 39th OA and 2024 3rd round.

It would cost the equivalent of a 1st, or quality prospect to withhold half of his salary.

That leaves three pieces, picks or prospects for Kane. Do you believe he’d cost less than three pieces? Two pieces? Would you trade Marner if the return was a late first and Sandin/Knies/Robertson? Or any two of those prospects? Of course not.

Then you are going to have to pay someone to retain the $2.625 or whatever that second retention. What do you believe that price is?

Add it up.

Debrincat and Marner are mid-20s players with multiple years of team control, not a mid-30s pending UFA.
I don't know why you think either retention would cost a 1st.
Sandin, Knies, and Robertson also aren't just "pieces". They're blue chip prospects/young NHL players with upside.
I can't think of any precedent for that cost.

 

[Fogelhund]

From a pure basis of making money work, the Leafs can send Kerfoot and Holl (plus futures) for Kane @50%.

Kerfoot and Holl are good flippable pieces for the Hawks at the deadline. They aren't the pieces that excited them, but can surely be turned into other assets in a few months. Money problem solved.

CHI barely gained an asset to take Mrazek and poorly gauged a DeBrincat return. I really don't see them (the people actually in place making the transaction) getting a king's ransom for one year of Kane. Could honestly see the additional assets on top of Kerfoot/Holl being of similar or even slightly lesser value than what TOR paid for two years of Jake Muzzin.

We are $1.5 mil over the cap now, with a 22 man roster. Move out Kerfoot and Holl, (3.5 + 2) for Kane at 50% would be $5.25. Then we’d be $1.25 over, without Sandin signed and 5 NHL D, plus Mete and Benn.

It doesn’t work without double retention.

 

[Fogelhund]

Debrincat and Marner are mid-20s players with multiple years of team control, not a mid-30s pending UFA.
I don't know why you think either retention would cost a 1st.
Sandin, Knies, and Robertson also aren't just "pieces". They're blue chip prospects/young NHL players with upside.
I can't think of any precedent for that cost.

What was the cost we paid for Carolina to take on Marleau’s salary for a year? A first right? Seems there is precedent for taking that salary on.

Note; in all posts, I’m assuming pre-season deal, not deadline deal.

 

[andora]

What was the cost we paid for Carolina to take on Marleau’s salary for a year? A first right? Seems there is precedent for taking that salary on.

Note; in all posts, I’m assuming pre-season deal, not deadline deal.

And considering that was the ONLY CORRECT trade that could have happened i think thats a fair price

 

[LeafsGuy16]

If I’m KD I go all in for Kane. My one stipulation, you do it now. Not at the trade deadline. And I’d be happy to pay for it. I feel like KD has the balls, and Kane can put us over the top.

3 Team Deal

To Toronto:
Patrick Kane (75% retained) - 2 teams

To Chicago:
2024 First
2025 First
Villeneuve/Abruzzese/Hirvonen
Sandin
Kerfoot (worth 3rd at the deadline).
Joey Anderson

To Third Team:
2023 Third

Essentially 3x 1st round picks, 2x 3rd round picks, NHL roster player worth another third rounder, Young NHL roster player.

Nylander-Matthews-Kane
Bunting-JT-Marner
Engvall-Kampf-Jarnkrok
Robertson-Gaudette/ZAR-NAK

Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Holl
Giordano-Liljegren

Murray
Samsonov

Am I crazy? Is that too much, too little? I’m not 100% sure if the money works, but should be close.

All I know, that looks like a Stanley Cup championship team to me.

GLG!

 

[SeaOfBlue]

 

[andora]

Omg.. and cassidy lol

 

[LeafsGuy16]

What was the cost we paid for Carolina to take on Marleau’s salary for a year? A first right? Seems there is precedent for taking that salary on.

Note; in all posts, I’m assuming pre-season deal, not deadline deal.

I think the market changes when you consider that ANY team trading for Kane will require 50% retention. Once it becomes a prerequisite the price would have to adjust. Of course full year vs deadline deal would also impact the price. We have a 4th for Folignos third team I believe. So I’m thinking 3rd rounder. Maybe 3rd+4th/5th? Shouldn’t be astronomical imo.

 

[Dekes For Days]

What was the cost we paid for Carolina to take on Marleau’s salary for a year? A first right? Seems there is precedent for taking that salary on.

Marleau was 6.25m in dead cap. The 3rd team in this would be taking on a 2.6m hit. I don't know why you think that compares.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Omg.. and cassidy lol

It is good for us. Still out of the conference. I don't think Kessel does much to make them much more competitive. Vegas was also not a team that made sense for Kerfoot.

Once Rodrigues signs, maybe teams start to reconsider the price on Kerfoot.

 

[Fogelhund]

Marleau was 6.25m in dead cap. The 3rd team in this would be taking on a 2.6m hit. I don't know why you think that compares.

The precedent is for Chicago withholding cap. Not the third team

——————

Kessel has signed a 1 year, $1.5 mil contract with Vegas.

 

[Menzinger]

I'm jealous. Good for Phil

 

[Dekes For Days]

The precedent is for Chicago withholding cap. Not the third team

You seemed to have that cost for both, and even Chicago's portion would be smaller than Marleau in both cap hit and salary. Also, 50% retention would pretty much have to be a necessity to trade him anywhere. There's a difference between a selling team retaining to get a transaction on their own high-priced player done, and a random team taking on 6.25m in dead cap.

 

[DraftSchmaft]

Wouldn't give up a 1st rd pk in 2023.
This draft is going to be really good.
Would love to grab another 1st or mid 2nd rd pk.

I must have entered some sort of twilight zone. People are more excited for deep drafts than they are adding Patrick Kane to our current window. Do you know who Patrick Kane is?

Having constant material to discuss in the prospects thread doesn't take priority over a Stanley Cup. Do I need to remind people the players that comprise this core and their ages. We are in win now mode + their ages basically make them closer to prospect age than it does washed up age. Actual superstars and top 6 players. We can let go of prospects and picks who aren't even guaranteed to be NHL regulars right now for a Patrick Kane. Again I must ask do people know who Patrick Kane is? I'm starting to think they don't.

 

[Nineteen67]

That management group is the worst in the NHL.

 

[LeafChief]

That management group is the worst in the NHL.

I don't really see anything wrong with Phil at 1 x 1.5. He still puts up points and can skate. I think he'll do well there.

I do agree that their management team is a bit wacky though.

 

[4thline]

Given the general cap tightness around the league and the "weaponization" (I prefer commoditization) of cap space I think we should be looking outside the box rather than either
A: hoping to send a player away for a pick
B:spending assets to dump players/ get retention
Specifically: a 1 for 1 "hockey trade" that under the surface is a mutually beneficial financial swap where we get cap space and the other team saves cash.
More specifically- Kerfoot for a pending UFA or 2 year player with a cap hit lower than 3.5 but cash owed significantly higher than 750k.

Ex. Kerfoot for Girgensons. We save 1.3 cap, they save 1.65 cash. Girgensons-Kampf-Kubel is a nasty defensive line that would be an absolute pain to play against