Trades and Free Agency - 2022 Off-season

[andora]

We only have one contract spot open unfortunately. Spent a few too many spots on guys who really should not have received ELC's.

Agreed on some holding contracts.. creating some extra work to be able to do anything

 

[Cor]

Still find it weird that we were linked like crazy to Aston-Reese leading up to free agency and then nothing happened with him at all to this point

 

[keonsbitterness]

When does training camp start? Man this has been a very dry hockey summer

Usually there are so many flueries or trades. Doesn't seem like much this year

First pre-season games are September 24, so full camps probably open around September 15-17.

NHL still hasn't released official camp dates for all teams. Why keep your fans informed when you can get more summer sleep?

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Agreed on some holding contracts.. creating some extra work to be able to do anything

It won't limit us on trades. Not that hard to throw a contract in for nothing.

Makes no sense to spend a contract on guys like Ovchinnikov (at this point anyways) and Rindell though. Gogolev too probably should not have got one after a dozen good games with the Marlies, and Hildeby probably should have received one later on in the year.

The rest are fine, assuming they think McMann can factor into the NHL at some point this year.

 

[Americanadian]

1. Team control means nothing when the player himself isn't as good as the player he's being compared to. Juraj Slafkovský isn't more valuable than Nathan Mackinnon for having much more years of cheap control.
2. Prospects bust all the time.
3. Arizona isn't known for developing scoring forwards, that's where offence goes to die.

Are you implying that Cooley won't be as good as Nylander? If so that is your prerogative but it's definitely not a fact. The NHL is shifting away from valuing pure production and shifting towards production per dollar - look at Pacioretty trade vs. Hagel trade or even the return that Debrincat got vs. Hagel. As I stated in my initial post - Cooley will likely produce more per dollar during his ELC than Nylander will during that same time frame.

Probably difficult to determine with the disparity of competition they played in.

Boys league versus men's league.

Yes - the only true comparison would be Cooley's performance at the 2023 WJC vs. Nylander in 2015 but even then it's completely unfair to compare players based off their performance in a 5-7 game tournament 8 years apart.

 

[horner]

Trade proposals with Knies in them be so like….

View attachment 575981

Why ?
Big strong winger that hits and goes to the net.
Like we have alot of these players.

 

[horner]

First pre-season games are September 24, so full camps probably open around September 15-17.

NHL still hasn't released official camp dates for all teams. Why keep your fans informed when you can get more summer sleep?

When is the rookie tournament.
Hope we can watch a couple of games on

 

[keonsbitterness]

When is the rookie tournament.
Hope we can watch a couple of games on

Think I saw the Sept 10-11 weekend for one team, so that probably applies league-wide.

 

[SprDaVE]

Still find it weird that we were linked like crazy to Aston-Reese leading up to free agency and then nothing happened with him at all to this point

Apparently the Islanders have 4-5 signings lined up, I wouldn't be surprised if he signed there.

 

[ER89]

It's not his defense that makes him untouchable.

Cooley has at least 5 extra years of team control over Nylander. He also has at 3 seasons on an ELC compared to Nylander at ~7M for the next 2 and most likely a raise after that. Cooley is almost guaranteed to produce more per dollar than Nylander once he turns pro until he signs his 2nd deal whether that be 3 or 4 seasons from now. Cooley is also a C (for now).

At no point in there did I even mention his overall ability which I'd love a draft expert to weigh in on who showed more potential leading up to the draft between Cooley and Nylander.

I get the control issue, but to assume he will produce at a level that william does and did is not something that is prudent considering not a lot of players start contributing almost immediately like will and most players are not ppg 30+ goal scorers.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Are you implying that Cooley won't be as good as Nylander? If so that is your prerogative but it's definitely not a fact. The NHL is shifting away from valuing pure production and shifting towards production per dollar - look at Pacioretty trade vs. Hagel trade or even the return that Debrincat got vs. Hagel. As I stated in my initial post - Cooley will likely produce more per dollar during his ELC than Nylander will during that same time frame.


Yes - the only true comparison would be Cooley's performance at the 2023 WJC vs. Nylander in 2015 but even then it's completely unfair to compare players based off their performance in a 5-7 game tournament 8 years apart.

If Cooley puts up 25 points he'd have 2x better production per dollar lol. Spezza would have been one of the most valuable players in the league on a per dollar basis the last two years. Kerfoot at 50% at the deadline would have 1st+++ value per dollar.

Kerfoot's 50 points at 1.75 = 35k per point
P Kane's 100 points at 5.25 = 52.5k per point

Kerfoot's gonna bring back a bigger return right?

 

[fahad203]

Apparently the Islanders have 4-5 signings lined up, I wouldn't be surprised if he signed there.

That's crazy. Their free agency starts September 1st ?

I wonder who they are going to upload and for what cost

 

[Dekes For Days]

If Cooley puts up 25 points he'd have 2x better production per dollar lol. Spezza would have been one of the most valuable players in the league on a per dollar basis the last two years. Kerfoot at 50% at the deadline would have 1st+++ value per dollar.

Kerfoot's 50 points at 1.75 = 35k per point
P Kane's 100 points at 5.25 = 52.5k per point

Kerfoot's gonna bring back a bigger return right?

Heck, McDavid is 101.6k per point. I know it's a downgrade, but I'd be willing to trade Kerfoot for McDavid.

 

[Americanadian]

If Cooley puts up 25 points he'd have 2x better production per dollar lol. Spezza would have been one of the most valuable players in the league on a per dollar basis the last two years. Kerfoot at 50% at the deadline would have 1st+++ value per dollar.

Kerfoot's 50 points at 1.75 = 35k per point
P Kane's 100 points at 5.25 = 52.5k per point

Kerfoot's gonna bring back a bigger return right?

Look at the comparables I gave you: Hagel, Debrincat, Pacioretty.

 

[notdoneyet]

Are you implying that Cooley won't be as good as Nylander? If so that is your prerogative but it's definitely not a fact. The NHL is shifting away from valuing pure production and shifting towards production per dollar - look at Pacioretty trade vs. Hagel trade or even the return that Debrincat got vs. Hagel. As I stated in my initial post - Cooley will likely produce more per dollar during his ELC than Nylander will during that same time frame.


Yes - the only true comparison would be Cooley's performance at the 2023 WJC vs. Nylander in 2015 but even then it's completely unfair to compare players based off their performance in a 5-7 game tournament 8 years apart.

I’ll take the guy who is a point per game player over the guy who is just a prospect and there is no guarantee he will even make the nhl

 

[Americanadian]

I’ll take the guy who is a point per game player over the guy who is just a prospect and there is no guarantee he will even make the nhl

Point per game player gets thrown around a lot for a player who has eclipsed .9 P/G once at 26.

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

LEAFS - DUCKS
Jake Muzzin
for
Futures (Ducks have Cap)

LEAFS - COYOTES
Rasmus Sandin, Alex Kerfoot, Nick Robertson & 1st
for
Jacob Chychrun

SIGN
Zach Aston-Reese - 3 x 2.25
Tyler Motte - 1 x 1

Bunting - Matthews - Marner
Jarnkrok - Tavares - Nylander
Aston-Reese - Kampf - Engvall
Motte - - - Douglas - - - Kubel
Motte, Clifford, Simmonds

Rielly - - Brodie
Chychrun - Holl
Giordano - Liljigren
Benn, Mete

 

[andora]

It won't limit us on trades. Not that hard to throw a contract in for nothing.

Makes no sense to spend a contract on guys like Ovchinnikov (at this point anyways) and Rindell though. Gogolev too probably should not have got one after a dozen good games with the Marlies, and Hildeby probably should have received one later on in the year.

The rest are fine, assuming they think McMann can factor into the NHL at some point this year.

Agree on those except mcmann i dont know much of anything about him

LEAFS - DUCKS
Jake Muzzin
for
Futures (Ducks have Cap)

LEAFS - COYOTES
Rasmus Sandin, Alex Kerfoot, Nick Robertson & 1st
for
Jacob Chychrun

SIGN
Zach Aston-Reese - 3 x 2.25
Tyler Motte - 1 x 1

Bunting - Matthews - Marner
Jarnkrok - Tavares - Nylander
Aston-Reese - Kampf - Engvall
Motte - - - Douglas - - - Kubel
Motte, Clifford, Simmonds

Rielly - - Brodie
Chychrun - Holl
Giordano - Liljigren
Benn, Mete

I think the motte and zar contracts are backwards.. i wouldnt pay that for 3 yrs zar... although nor would i for motte

Forwards look meh..

 

[Americanadian]

I get the control issue, but to assume he will produce at a level that william does and did is not something that is prudent considering not a lot of players start contributing almost immediately like will and most players are not ppg 30+ goal scorers.

Nylander was a 20 goal/60 point player in his D+3 season. I don’t think it’s outrageous to say Cooley can do the same. I’m also not trying to compare them as assets at the same age - I think Cooley is more valuable moving forward from today. As you mentioned - control is a big part of the value of an asset, so is price.

 

[Stephen]

Are you implying that Cooley won't be as good as Nylander? If so that is your prerogative but it's definitely not a fact. The NHL is shifting away from valuing pure production and shifting towards production per dollar - look at Pacioretty trade vs. Hagel trade or even the return that Debrincat got vs. Hagel. As I stated in my initial post - Cooley will likely produce more per dollar during his ELC than Nylander will during that same time frame.


Yes - the only true comparison would be Cooley's performance at the 2023 WJC vs. Nylander in 2015 but even then it's completely unfair to compare players based off their performance in a 5-7 game tournament 8 years apart.

There's more than a decent chance Logan Cooley won't be as good as Nylander ever, and especially over the life of the ELC.

We got 2x 61 point years out of Willie on his first deal. All you have to do is look at top 3 picks like Hughes, Kakko, Lafreniere, Patrick, Hischier, Svechnikov, Dach, Kotkaniemi who didn't hit those marks and probably soon Stutzle and Byfield to see that Nylander's production isn't that common, though Nylander did get a couple of extra developmental years that a top 3 wouldn't get.

 

[Americanadian]

There's more than a decent chance Logan Cooley won't be as good as Nylander ever, and especially over the life of the ELC.

We got 2x 61 point years out of Willie on his first deal. All you have to do is look at top 3 picks like Hughes, Kakko, Lafreniere, Patrick, Hischier, Svechnikov, Dach, Kotkaniemi who didn't hit those marks and probably soon Stutzle and Byfield to see that Nylander's production isn't that common, though Nylander did get a couple of extra developmental years that a top 3 wouldn't get.

It's definitely possible that he won't ever be as good but I think he's a more valuable asset today. He has 5+ more years control and he has 3 seasons at less than 1M. Nylander is up for another raise in two years.

 

[ER89]

Nylander was a 20 goal/60 point player in his D+3 season. I don’t think it’s outrageous to say Cooley can do the same. I’m also not trying to compare them as assets at the same age - I think Cooley is more valuable moving forward from today. As you mentioned - control is a big part of the value of an asset, so is price.

all im saying is sure you may get a drai or a huberdeau from your 3oa, but you may also get a dach, strome, galch, drouin etc.

 

[Americanadian]

all im saying is sure you may get a drai or a huberdeau from your 3oa, but you may also get a dach, strome, galch, drouin etc.

Players bust all the time - it doesn't mean they aren't valuable assets 1 month post draft. The initial conversation was regarding the value of players in response to this post:

its funny, cooley is untouchable but a ppg william you put out in trades like he's chopped liver hah

Again - Cooley is "untouchable" to Coyotes fans because a lot of public scouts are saying he has the highest ceiling in the draft and he was literally just drafted.

People put Nylander in trade proposals because this is his peak value and realistically the best time to trade him. He will never hold this level of trade value again. Next off season he will be one year away from signing an 8 year deal that will take him to 36 and he won't carry the same value with only 1 year left on his contract.

I'm not proposing the Leafs trade Nylander for Cooley. I am explaining why Coyotes fans view Cooley as untouchable and half of Leafs fans think moving on from Nylander would be wise.

 

[ER89]

Players bust all the time - it doesn't mean they aren't valuable assets 1 month post draft. The initial conversation was regarding the value of players in response to this post:

Again - Cooley is "untouchable" to Coyotes fans because a lot of public scouts are saying he has the highest ceiling in the draft and he was literally just drafted.

People put Nylander in trade proposals because this is his peak value and realistically the best time to trade him. He will never hold this level of trade value again. Next off season he will be one year away from signing an 8 year deal that will take him to 36 and he won't carry the same value with only 1 year left on his contract.

I'm not proposing the Leafs trade Nylander for Cooley. I am explaining why Coyotes fans view Cooley as untouchable and half of Leafs fans think moving on from Nylander would be wise.

Oh I completely understand the cooley portion. What you may not have understood is the guy i responded to makes pathetic proposals re: william all the time where we get absolute shite pieces back. So my point was its ironic how you're going to value cooley to his full potential but william as semi valuable piece.

Let's not get it twisted... william is a seriously valuable piece. Anyone who doesn't think that just doesn't get it.

 

[Americanadian]

Oh I completely understand the cooley portion. What you may not have understood is the guy i responded to makes pathetic proposals re: william all the time where we get absolute shite pieces back. So my point was its ironic how you're going to value cooley to his full potential but william as semi valuable piece.

Let's not get it twisted... william is a seriously valuable piece. Anyone who doesn't think that just doesn't get it.

Agreed on everything stated.