Trades and Free Agency - 2022 Off-season

[The Podium]

.....and fair to say he didn't have his table set for himself as well as Dubas did?

Are you kidding me? He had Landeskog, Duchene, MacKinnon, ROR and Stastny

Do people not remember how much heat Sakic was under during his first 4 years as GM?

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

I really wonder how it will shake out in the next few weeks with Sandin and the Leafs salary cap. Maybe they roll the dice going into training camp being over the cap. They only have to be compliant by the first game. Maybe there's going to be an injury, maybe a team reaches out with a good trade, etc.

Another question mark is where some of these solid players will end up. I think we'll see a lot of PTOs for good players.

The SDPN made a comment that a bunch of teams might "find an injury" October 1st to LTIR someone expensive so they are cap compliant.

 

[ACC1224]

Are you kidding me? He had Landeskog, Duchene, MacKinnon, ROR and Stastny

Do people not remember how much heat Sakic was under during his first 4 years as GM?

Not at all, that's why I posed the question.

 

[Americanadian]

and if you were a fan of the Avalanche, you would have been screaming to get rid of Sakic for seven seasons, until they finally had success.

Personally I wouldn't. I can respect a good rebuild. I thought Lou was excellent in 2015-16 and then his moves became progressively worse once he started competing. The only blunder I can see on Sakic's resume is the O'Reilly trade, letting Stastny walk for free, drafting Jost and the Beauchemin, Calvert contracts. That's not bad when you consider this is his 10th off season.

 

[The Podium]

Not at all, that's why I posed the question.

He was widely regarded as the biggest failure as a GM up until the Duchene deal

His ROR deal, who ended up winning the cup not long after, was seen like we see the Kadri trade today. But worse as ROR went on to win the Conn Smythe

 

[Americanadian]

Dubas has been GM for 4 years.

Sakic took over a team that had 112 points the season prior.

Is this Dubas' 5th off-season? Yes or no?

My apologies for including the year he was introduced as president.

 

[ULF_55]

1. This was Dubas' 5th off season.

2. Sakic took over a team that was about to pick 1st overall and was nowhere near contender status. He went through a rebuild and the team wasn't even making the playoffs until 2017-18, a year after the Leafs. Dubas has been the GM since 2018 and the Leafs have been a contender since he took over.

The Leafs have failed to add undervalued talent at the top of their roster to the same degree Sakic has as they've both chased a cup during the same time frame. Dubas could have added any of Nichuskin (850k), Burakovsky (3.25M) and kept Kadri (4.5M) during the 2019 off season when Sakic acquired all 3. Instead that money was spent on Kerfoot (3.5M), Barrie (2.75M) and Mikheyev (925k). I don't blame Dubas for bringing in Mikheyev on an ELC - Nuke has proved to be a better player though.

They haven't even been on the ice so you can't evaluate something that hasn't happened.

And if you want to add a couple seasons to Sakic go ahead.

Sakic was effectively GM starting in May 2013, so he had 9 off season prior to winning.

 

[The Podium]

Is this Dubas' 5th off-season? Yes or no?

My apologies for including the year he was introduced as president while there was an interim GM.

This season hasn’t happened yet though, so the results of this off-season remain to be seen

 

[ITM]

And while we contrast Sakic's superiority in asset management (sincerely) with Dubas' as yet to be determined outcome...Can we pause a moment and note that part of Toronto's incentive to promote Dubas was precisely because Sakic was the most prominent name interested in Dubas?

 

[Americanadian]

They haven't even been on the ice so you can't evaluate something that hasn't happened.

And if you want to add a couple seasons to Sakic go ahead.

Sakic was effectively GM starting in May 2013, so he had 9 off season prior to winning.

You are absolutely correct - anything can happen this year and Murray could be the Leafs Nichushkin. Until that happens though we know what both GM's have done.

I was just corrected on Sakic - he took over as GM in 2014. The fact stands - he had 9 off seasons prior to winning a cup. Dubas could win a cup - we will see. Sakic's boldest and arguably best trade (Duchene) did coming during his 4th season though.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Is this Dubas' 5th off-season?

Dubas has been a GM for 4 seasons. 2018/2019, 2019/2020, 2020/2021, and 2021/2022. We have not yet started, let alone seen the results of the 2022/2023 season.

 

[Americanadian]

This season hasn’t happened yet though, so the results of this off-season remain to be seen

Absolutely fair.

Dubas has been a GM for 4 seasons. 2018/2019, 2019/2020, 2020/2021, and 2021/2022. We have not yet started, let alone seen the results of the 2022/2023 season.

So please answer the question that you initially challenged. Has he been GM for 5 off seasons?

 

[LeafSteel]

And while we contrast Sakic's superiority in asset management (sincerely) with Dubas' as yet to be determined outcome...Can we pause a moment and note that part of Toronto's incentive to promote Dubas was precisely because Sakic was the most prominent name interested in Dubas?

Maybe they needed an extra usher at the arena...........?

Joking aside, that's a great point. It was the Avalanche asking permission to talk to Dubas that forced Shanahan to decide between Dubas, Hunter, and Lou...

Whether he would still be there or would have already been fired is something we will never know.

 

[ULF_55]

You are absolutely correct - anything can happen this year and Murray could be the Leafs Nichushkin. Until that happens though we know what both GM's have done.

I was just corrected on Sakic - he took over as GM in 2014. The fact stands - he had 9 off seasons prior to winning a cup. Dubas could win a cup - we will see. Sakic's boldest and arguably best trade (Duchene) did coming during his 4th season though.

Prior to being named GM:

On May 10, 2013, the Avalanche promoted Sakic to executive vice president of hockey operations. In this expanded role, Sakic had the final say on all matters regarding hockey personnel.[

Joe Sakic - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[4thline]

2. Sakic took over a team that was about to pick 1st overall and was nowhere near contender status. He went through a rebuild and the team wasn't even making the playoffs until 2017-18, a year after the Leafs. Dubas has been the GM since 2018 and the Leafs have been a contender since he took over.

A little right, a little wrong, a lot misleading.
He took over a team that was about to pick 1st overall... that already had elite young talent in Landeskog/Duchene/O'Rielly, burgeoning young defence with Barrie and Johnson, prime age Stastny.

It was so bad that it added Mackinnon at 1st overall and promptly threw up a 112 point season. Colorado was seen as young team on the rise when he took over and even moreso after the 1st year. Then shit went sidewise, Duchene and ROR were ditched, NMac and Landeskog had the first ~5 years of their careers wasted. Yet the Avs stayed the course. They have since been paid off. 9 years after drafting NMac, 11 after Landeskog.

 

[LeafChief]

We really need some Leafs news. This place is wild right now.

 

[Fogelhund]

sorry, I’m up North camping/fishing and it keeps double posting on me.

 

[Americanadian]

Prior to being named GM:

On May 10, 2013, the Avalanche promoted Sakic to executive vice president of hockey operations. In this expanded role, Sakic had the final say on all matters regarding hockey personnel.[

Joe Sakic - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Sakic took over a team that had 112 points the season prior.

I'll let you 2 figure out who's right and who's wrong.

 

[Fogelhund]

Grass is always greener with the latest winner of the Cup. In every case for the last few years, those teams took years to assemble, and most often the main cast had longer before a cup than our core. But yup, the grass is greener and a lack of patience demanding we win now.

That being said, if they don’t find success this year of some sort in the playoffs, change of some sort will be necessary.

 

[Americanadian]

and if you were a fan of the Avalanche, you would have been screaming to get rid of Sakic for seven seasons, until they finally had success.

If you are equating my dissatisfaction with Dubas to me being dissatisfied with Sakic then you are missing my points here. I named all of Sakic's blunders. I think Dubas has made more blunders over half the time.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Has he been GM for 5 off seasons?

Dubas has been GM for 4 seasons. We have not yet seen the results of his 5th season.

I'll let you 2 figure out who's right and who's wrong.

Both are right. Sakic was named GM of a team that had 112 points the season prior. I'm all for applying additional context, as long as we're applying appropriate context to both situations.

 

[Americanadian]

A little right, a little wrong, a lot misleading.
He took over a team that was about to pick 1st overall... that already had elite young talent in Landeskog/Duchene/O'Rielly, burgeoning young defence with Barrie and Johnson, prime age Stastny.

It was so bad that it added Mackinnon at 1st overall and promptly threw up a 112 point season. Colorado was seen as young team on the rise when he took over and even moreso after the 1st year. Then shit went sidewise, Duchene and ROR were ditched, NMac and Landeskog had the first ~5 years of their careers wasted. Yet the Avs stayed the course. They have since been paid off. 9 years after drafting NMac, 11 after Landeskog.

While I agree with your whole post the bolded seems a little gratuitous. Look at MacKinnon's numbers and Landeskog's numbers prior to 2017-18. They wouldn't have led any team to the playoffs.

 

[ULF_55]

I'll let you 2 figure out who's right and who's wrong.

We all know Sakic did not win after 4 off-seasons.

 

[Americanadian]

Dubas has been GM for 4 seasons. We have not yet seen the results of his 5th season.

Both are right. Sakic was named GM of a team that had 112 points the season prior. I'm all for applying additional context, as long as we're applying appropriate context to both situations.

1. You are avoiding my question.

2. When do we start giving Sakic credit? 2013 or 2014?

We all know Sakic did not win after 4 off-seasons.

Did someone claim that?

 

[andora]

1. You are avoiding my question.

2. When do we start giving Sakic credit? 2013 or 2014?


Did someone claim that?

Its ok.. yes this is his 5th off season.