Trades and Free Agency - 2022 Off-season

[Fogelhund]

Nylanders never shown himself capable of being an NHL center.

It's npt going to happen in his 10th season

Our future 2C will be JT on his next deal/a surprise breakout from SDA/Abramov/Minten, or an external 2C

Nylanders a LW/RW and a great one but he's not going to be used at center unless 34/91 and kerfoot are injured at the same time

This is a guy with 1700 career faceoffs, and over 50% sometimes well over it. He won MVP of the WC as a C for Sweden.

Of course he isn’t used as a C very much, he’s be a waste as a 3C, and he wasn’t going to supplant Tavares or Matthew’s. But having that versatility to possibly transition isn’t something you trade away.

 

[Dekes For Days]

their goal is to win at least one round.

Their goal is to win the cup.

Did he waste the young stars' ELCs or fail to move expiring UFAs for draft picks?

Both. The worst of both worlds.

 

[justashadowof]

I believe that the Leafs would have been to the NHL finals at least once by now if Lou had been left in charge. Undoubtedly he would have made deals that would have triggered our redditor/tumblr Leafs' fans to the max. He is unconcerned with whether other people perceive him as clever. He'd make some mistakes along the way and not concern himself with proving they weren't mistakes. His focus would be playoff success. He has always been razor-focused on playoff success, the guy has canned a couple of coaches on the eve of the NHL playoffs. And he runs a tight ship. Undoubtedly Babcock would have been fired by now too but we'd know nothing about anything that happened in that dressing room.

 

[BertCorbeau]

This perpetual Lou vs Kyle debate needs to stop. It’s completely derailed the thread.

 

[conFABulator]

Some people can’t recognise the fact that dubas is in over his head

Nylander 7 years on the team
Matthews 6 years
Marner 6 years
Tavares 4 years
And we still can’t get out of the first round

You can’t have a too heavy top four and then add everyone on a min deal

No success in the way he has tried to put the team together

His ego is his biggest problem. Can’t admit when he is wrong because he thinks he is always the smartest guy in the room

Do you get your name on the cup for having a good regular season.

He has had four full seasons as GM and they have had success, but not playoff success yet. It takes time to build a Stanley Cup champion for sure.

Was Sakic in over his head before this year? This was Sakic's 8th year as GM and he had a lost of players just like Dubas has to work with.

He kept MacKinnon, Landeskog, Rantanen, he augmented them with a second line centre, he built a possession focused puck moving defense, and struggled to find a goalie. He also hired a young, unproven coach and stuck with him.

They lacked playoff success in the easier conference and even missed the playoffs a few times. Then his core matured, he added the right pieces around the edges and they won the cup and he is considered the top executive in the NHL.

Would you have fired him after four years? No playoff wins and a core of young players that had been there a while but not yet hit their primes?

It takes time, in fact name a recent Stanley Cup champion that didn't require patience.

 

[Cor]

This perpetual Lou vs Kyle debate needs to stop. It’s completely derailed the thread.

Yeah, well, that is Lou’s fault!

 

[Nineteen67]

Not disagreeing but how ironic IF the true goal behind closed doors is to win one round

Completely opposite of everything thats been fed out to the people. If they have waivered on the process and building a team that can win hockey games and winning one round creeps over that 50% of importance they are already f***ed

The natural instinct is to try and save your job. Winning a round does that and buys them some time.

 

[MAB1]

He has had four full seasons as GM and they have had success, but not playoff success yet. It takes time to build a Stanley Cup champion for sure.

Was Sakic in over his head before this year? This was Sakic's 8th year as GM and he had a lost of players just like Dubas has to work with.

He kept MacKinnon, Landeskog, Rantanen, he augmented them with a second line centre, he built a possession focused puck moving defense, and struggled to find a goalie. He also hired a young, unproven coach and stuck with him.

They lacked playoff success in the easier conference and even missed the playoffs a few times. Then his core matured, he added the right pieces around the edges and they won the cup and he is considered the top executive in the NHL.

Would you have fired him after four years? No playoff wins and a core of young players that had been there a while but not yet hit their primes?

It takes time, in fact name a recent Stanley Cup champion that didn't require patience.

You're kidding right? Look at the fanbase you're talking to, these dudes would've demanded that Mackinnon be traded after 4 seasons because he isn't progressing.

 

[ACC1224]

He has had four full seasons as GM and they have had success, but not playoff success yet. It takes time to build a Stanley Cup champion for sure.

Was Sakic in over his head before this year. This was Sakic's 8th year as GM and he had a lost of players just like Dubas has to work with.

He kept MacKinnon, Landeskog, Rantanen, he augmented them with a second line centre, he built a possession focused puck moving defense, and struggled to find a goalie. He also hired a young, unproven coach and stuck with him.
They lacked playoff success in the easier conference and even missed the playoffs a few times. Then his core matured, he added the right pieces around the edges and they won the cup and he is considered the top executive in the NHL.

Would you have fired him after four years? No playoff wins and a core of young players that had been there a while but not yet hit their primes?

It takes time, in fact name a recent Stanley Cup champion that didn't require patience.

Yes it seems he figured it out but he also won as a player which gives you an advantage.
Sakic(or any gm for that matter) figuring it out doesn’t guarantee Dubas will.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Yes it seems he figured it out but he also won as a player which gives you an advantage.
Sakic(or any gm for that matter) figuring it out doesn’t guarantee Dubas will.

You missed the point. Sakic didn't "figure out" anything. Cups just aren't guaranteed no matter what you do, and it usually takes time and patience and some luck.

 

[VanW27]

He has had four full seasons as GM and they have had success, but not playoff success yet. It takes time to build a Stanley Cup champion for sure.

Was Sakic in over his head before this year. This was Sakic's 8th year as GM and he had a lost of players just like Dubas has to work with.

He kept MacKinnon, Landeskog, Rantanen, he augmented them with a second line centre, he built a possession focused puck moving defense, and struggled to find a goalie. He also hired a young, unproven coach and stuck with him.
They lacked playoff success in the easier conference and even missed the playoffs a few times. Then his core matured, he added the right pieces around the edges and they won the cup and he is considered the top executive in the NHL.

Would you have fired him after four years? No playoff wins and a core of young players that had been there a while but not yet hit their primes?

It takes time, in fact name a recent Stanley Cup champion that didn't require patience.

Lots of comparisons being made between us and Avs these days but quite frankly i just dont see it.

"Both teams had regular season success but not playoff success"

Except have the Leafs really had comparable regular season success? Avs have won multiple division and conference titles, a Presidents trophy (maybe 2, I can't remember). Leafs biggest accomplishment is finishing a distant second in the division and 3rd in the conference. We did win the North I guess but what is that really worth when the competition was a bunch of bottom half of the league teams?

"Lack of playoff success prior to this year"

Avs, and Mackinnon in particular had completely destroyed their first round opponents.

"But they are in the weak conference so get easy 1st round matchups and have lost when playing good teams in the 2nd round"

Um we lost to the Habs and CBJ, two of the worst teams to make the playoffs in modern history.

 

[Americanadian]

They lacked playoff success in the easier conference and even missed the playoffs a few times. Then his core matured, he added the right pieces around the edges and they won the cup and he is considered the top executive in the NHL.

Sakic went out and acquired Toews, Kadri, Burakovsky, Nichuskin for Barrie, Kerfoot, 3 2nds and 2 3rds. That's an entire 2nd line for 3 seasons - Nuke will be there longer. Toews is a top 10 (?) defenseman in the league and he will be on the team for a minimum of 4 seasons. The reason Sakic is seen as a top executive is because he consistently wins trades and gets long term value.

This doesn't even include getting Lehkonen for 6 years and Manson for 5 years without giving up a 1st or trading 2 years of Zadorov for 1 year of Saad. This also doesn't include the Duchene trade where he grabbed Girard, Byram.

Dubas' whole premise when he became GM was that he was going to find underrated and undervalued talent. He has brought in Bunting, Spezza, Kampf, Mikheyev who have over performed their contracts but only Bunting/Kampf have been big minute contributors and one of them will be gone after this season if the Leafs don't move salary.

 

[stickty111]

He had them on their ELC's and wasted it by spending picks on 4th line centers, drafting horribly, not getting picks for expiring UFA's when we clearly weren't ready to contend, and then signing guys like Zaitsev and Marleau to ridiculous deals.

what on earth makes you think he'd handle their prime years better?

Pretty much.
There is a user desperate that he is coming from the Islanders board to post laughing reactions

 

[ULF_55]

Sakic went out and acquired Toews, Kadri, Burakovsky, Nichuskin for Barrie, Kerfoot, 3 2nds and 2 3rds. That's an entire 2nd line for 3 seasons - Nuke will be there longer. Toews is a top 10 (?) defenseman in the league and he will be on the team for a minimum of 4 seasons. The reason Sakic is seen as a top executive is because he consistently wins trades and gets long term value.

This doesn't even include getting Lehkonen for 6 years and Manson for 5 years without giving up a 1st or trading 2 years of Zadorov for 1 year of Saad. This also doesn't include the Duchene trade where he grabbed Girard, Byram.

Dubas' whole premise when he became GM was that he was going to find underrated and undervalued talent. He has brought in Bunting, Spezza, Kampf, Mikheyev who have over performed their contracts but only Bunting/Kampf have been big minute contributors and one of them will be gone after this season if the Leafs don't move salary.

Kadri - 3 years ago
Toews - 2 years ago
Nichushkin - 3 years ago
Burakovsky - 3 years ago
Sakic - 7 years as GM to start Cup winning season.

Dubas - 3 years as GM to start last season.

Sakic didn't acquire his talent in 3 years.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Kadri - 3 years ago
Toews - 2 years ago
Nichushkin - 3 years ago
Burakovsky - 3 years ago
Sakic - 7 years as GM to start Cup winning season.

Dubas - 3 years as GM to start last season.

Sakic didn't acquire his talent in 3 years.

Sakic was technically GM for 8 years.

 

[ULF_55]

Sakic was technically GM for 8 years.

Yes, he officially was named later, but effectively was GM earlier.
Officially named 2014, and 2021-2022 season was Cup season.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Lots of comparisons being made between us and Avs these days but quite frankly i just dont see it.

"Both teams had regular season success but not playoff success"

Except have the Leafs really had comparable regular season success? Avs have won multiple division and conference titles, a Presidents trophy (maybe 2, I can't remember). Leafs biggest accomplishment is finishing a distant second in the division and 3rd in the conference. We did win the North I guess but what is that really worth when the competition was a bunch of bottom half of the league teams?

"Lack of playoff success prior to this year"

Avs, and Mackinnon in particular had completely destroyed their first round opponents.

"But they are in the weak conference so get easy 1st round matchups and have lost when playing good teams in the 2nd round"

Um we lost to the Habs and CBJ, two of the worst teams to make the playoffs in modern history.

We are not that far off from Colorado in terms of regular season success.

4 less points this past year. 5 less points last year (in the Covid-year). We had like a dozen less the year before, but a lot of that had to do with Babcock's crappy start; under Keefe, we would have been right up there with them.

Playoff success, perhaps. Although they had some very uninspiring playoff efforts before this year too. Arguably even less inspiring than the Leafs'. They just happened in the 2nd round instead of the first.

 

[Americanadian]

Sakic was technically GM for 8 years.

Kadri - 3 years ago
Toews - 2 years ago
Nichushkin - 3 years ago
Burakovsky - 3 years ago
Sakic - 7 years as GM to start Cup winning season.

Dubas - 3 years as GM to start last season.

Sakic didn't acquire his talent in 3 years.

1. This was Dubas' 5th off season.

2. Sakic took over a team that was about to pick 1st overall and was nowhere near contender status. He went through a rebuild and the team wasn't even making the playoffs until 2017-18, a year after the Leafs. Dubas has been the GM since 2018 and the Leafs have been a contender since he took over.

The Leafs have failed to add undervalued talent at the top of their roster to the same degree Sakic has as they've both chased a cup during the same time frame. Dubas could have added any of Nichuskin (850k), Burakovsky (3.25M) and kept Kadri (4.5M) during the 2019 off season when Sakic acquired all 3. Instead that money was spent on Kerfoot (3.5M), Barrie (2.75M) and Mikheyev (925k). I don't blame Dubas for bringing in Mikheyev on an ELC - Nuke has proved to be a better player though.

 

[andora]

Cannot deny the avs doing a major reset with moving out a group of core players that werent working

Almost seperates sakics time into two lanes

 

[ACC1224]

Yes, he officially was named later, but effectively was GM earlier.
Officially named 2014, and 2021-2022 season was Cup season.

.....and fair to say he didn't have his table set for himself as well as Dubas did?

 

[TheGroceryStick]

Any trade/FA talk or just GM Talk?

 

[Fogelhund]

1. This was Dubas' 5th off season.

2. Sakic took over a team that was about to pick 1st overall and was nowhere near contender status. He went through a rebuild and the team wasn't even making the playoffs until 2017-18, a year after the Leafs. Dubas has been the GM since 2018 and the Leafs have been a contender since he took over.

The Leafs have failed to add undervalued talent at the top of their roster to the same degree Sakic has as they've both chased a cup during the same time frame. Dubas could have added any of Nichuskin (850k), Burakovsky (3.25M) and kept Kadri (4.5M) during the 2019 off season when Sakic acquired all 3. Instead that money was spent on Kerfoot (3.5M), Barrie (2.75M) and Mikheyev (925k). I don't blame Dubas for bringing in Mikheyev on an ELC - Nuke has proved to be a better player though.

and if you were a fan of the Avalanche, you would have been screaming to get rid of Sakic for seven seasons, until they finally had success.

 

[SprDaVE]

I really wonder how it will shake out in the next few weeks with Sandin and the Leafs salary cap. Maybe they roll the dice going into training camp being over the cap. They only have to be compliant by the first game. Maybe there's going to be an injury, maybe a team reaches out with a good trade, etc.

Another question mark is where some of these solid players will end up. I think we'll see a lot of PTOs for good players.

 

[Dekes For Days]

This was Dubas' 5th off season.

Dubas has been GM for 4 years.

Sakic took over a team that was about to pick 1st overall and was nowhere near contender status.

Sakic took over a team that had 112 points the season prior.

 

[Fogelhund]

1. This was Dubas' 5th off season.

2. Sakic took over a team that was about to pick 1st overall and was nowhere near contender status. He went through a rebuild and the team wasn't even making the playoffs until 2017-18, a year after the Leafs. Dubas has been the GM since 2018 and the Leafs have been a contender since he took over.

The Leafs have failed to add undervalued talent at the top of their roster to the same degree Sakic has as they've both chased a cup during the same time frame. Dubas could have added any of Nichuskin (850k), Burakovsky (3.25M) and kept Kadri (4.5M) during the 2019 off season when Sakic acquired all 3. Instead that money was spent on Kerfoot (3.5M), Barrie (2.75M) and Mikheyev (925k). I don't blame Dubas for bringing in Mikheyev on an ELC - Nuke has proved to be a better player though.

and if you were a fan of the Avalanche, you would have been screaming to get rid of Sakic for seven seasons, until they finally had success.