Trades and Free Agency - 2022/2023 Trade Deadline Edition

[thusk]

Giving up a 1st for a rental, Kane included, should be a non-starter. Giving up a 1st for Kane and then re-signing him is a near guarantee to be a bad contract. The Leafs are better off using any assets they want to deal for Kane and acquiring a player in their prime with team control.

But for only 1st pick for a player with control AND a contrat who will fit with leafs cap... you will get a kind of jarnkrok, goodrow at best... thats the only thing you will find.

 

[Smif]

I think I'll pass on J McCabe.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Obviously I wanna win tonight, but does anyone else get the feeling Kane might put on a show trying to get our attention for trade?



Highly doubtful.

Why is this doubtful?

What I have suggested is a possibility has actually happened before, he asked for as much as Matthews. We had him as an RFA and apparently the only reason an offer sheet didn't happen was because he didn't want the term from NYI or CBJ (forget now)

Suggesting it is not possible that he would check the UFA market if we didn't match his contract to whatever we (hopefully) sign Matthews for seems like what some people in this thread want but doesn't seem likely given the negotiation history prior.

 

[Menzinger]

you won't find a bigger Patrick Kane fan than me but come on, we are completely the wrong fit for him.

How do you look down our lineup and conclude that adding another small scoring winger is what's going to get us over the hump?

I get it the D market is terrible this year, but you have to be wise with your assets no matter what.

Though calling Kane a small scoring winger is a bit unfair. He's been a top 2, player on a cup winning team. Scoring goals in elimination games has been one of the Leafs biggest weaknesses - he helps solve that. Either directly, or by pushing guys down the lineup to strengthen other lines

 

[Kurtz]

It's more about the timing of his performance decline is mirroring Marleau.....at 34/35 Marleau dropped off from nearly a decade of being reasonably close to a PPG player to more of a 40-50 point player.

And Marleau was healthy.

I just think people are expecting too much from a player that has a ton of hard mileage on him. He's got nearly 1300 NHL games including playoffs under his belt. And he's only played 9 playoff games since 2016-17.

That wear and tear always shows much more on physical players and guys with a long history of injuries. Kane has been very durable historically, and his lack of physicality should aid his longevity.

 

[Menzinger]

With Kane, or ROR probably staying away from an extension is best unless they're willing to cut a team friendly deal.

Though both will probably come cheaper than many expect, so I think the rental options for either is fine.

 

[Sypher04]

Why is this doubtful?

What I have suggested is a possibility has actually happened before, he asked for as much as Matthews. We had him as an RFA and apparently the only reason an offer sheet didn't happen was because he didn't want the term from NYI or CBJ (forget now)

Suggesting it is not possible that he would check the UFA market if we didn't match his contract to whatever we (hopefully) sign Matthews for seems like what some people in this thread want but doesn't seem likely given the negotiation history prior.

Him testing UFA is plausible. What’s highly unlikely is he gets Matthews money. Matthews has way more on his resume, 60 goal scorer and is a center. Marner might hit 12

 

[WTFMAN99]

Him testing UFA is plausible. What’s highly unlikely is he gets Matthews money. Matthews has way more on his resume, 60 goal scorer and is a center. Marner might hit 12

Depends what happens with the cap, another year could change the ceiling.

Marner has lead the team in points more often than Matthews and does play the PK

A team that doesn't always land the big fish could pony up money, depends on what Marner wants.

 

[Americanadian]

Depends what happens with the cap, another year could change the ceiling.

Marner has lead the team in points more often than Matthews and does play the PK

A team that doesn't always land the big fish could pony up money, depends on what Marner wants.

You have to call his bluff. Offer him Pastrnak’s contract and let him walk if he wants. His entire life (family, wife’s family, his charity) is in Toronto. Challenge him to walk away from that.

 

[hamzarocks]

Marner is very unlikely to get what Matthews gets, just like last time.

Marner got 10.9 vs Matthews getting 11.6

So very similar amounts with Marner giving 1 more year of term

If Matthews goes for 14M then marner will be at 13M or so

Though if tbe cap is at 100M then that will still be workable around so long as we can get someone to replace JT and spread the cap increase to a few scoring wingers to support 88, 16 and 34

 

[kb]

That wear and tear always shows much more on physical players and guys with a long history of injuries. Kane has been very durable historically, and his lack of physicality should aid his longevity.

True, but after watching this first period I stand by my assessment. lol

I think we just disagree on how much he has left in the tank.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Unless he hits open market to find out in which case, he very well could.

I mean, if he's willing to sign anywhere, and he wants to chase absolute top dollar in UFA, maybe he gets close, but there's nothing to indicate that's something he's looking to do.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I mean, if he's willing to sign anywhere, and he wants to chase absolute top dollar in UFA, maybe he gets close, but there's nothing to indicate that's something he's looking to do.

Except the last time his contract negotiations came up, he chose to ask for what Matthews got and was actually kinda petty about missing bonuses on his contract compared to Matthews.

So I can only go by what Marner's have actually been when put in circumstances of signing a new contract.

Is there a reason to believe he won't see himself as equal to Matthews to this team's importance when his contract is coming up for renewal based upon what we know about his history of contract negotiations?

 

[Dekes For Days]

Except the last time his contract negotiations came up, he chose to ask for what Matthews got

No he didn't. He asked for less than what Matthews got. He just wanted the amount he had earned, consistent with the history of post-ELC contracts, so I don't know why anybody would expect him to demand more than a contract consistent with UFA contract history this time, when if anything, he's way more likely to give a discount this time.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

No it wouldn't. You're looking at cap hit when the only thing that matters is cap hit percentage. McDavid negotiated 17.67% and then took a discount down to 16.67%.

12.63 would be in McDavid territory, maybe not exact but probably in the hundreds of thousands not millions different. Im also not getting into it with you regarding cap hit% during the year of signing vs when the contract kicks in.

 

[Dekes For Days]

12.63 would be in McDavid territory

No it wouldn't. An equivalent McDavid post-discount contract would have been in the mid-13s, and pre-discount would be into the 14s.

 

[WTFMAN99]

No he didn't. He asked for less than what Matthews got. He just wanted the amount he had earned, consistent with the history of post-ELC contracts, so I don't know why anybody would expect him to demand more than a contract consistent with UFA contract history this time, when if anything, he's way more likely to give a discount this time.

Google away, Marner wanted Matthews money.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

I'd be trading him at the draft before he has trade protection, I would have gone to the 5-8 years at 12-13.5M and if it doesn't get done, he's traded that weekend. Can't let him walk for nothing.

If you liquidate and do well on the returns, you can maybe get things turned around in a couple of years.

It would be an incredibly tough pill to swallow but I get that. I may be willing to go a tad higher on an 8 year deal if they can do something in the playoffs this year though.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

No it wouldn't. An equivalent McDavid post-discount contract would have been in the mid-13s, and pre-discount would be into the 14s.

Okay so we are agreed, it would be 12.6 + possibly a couple hundred thousand which would be in the 13s, aka McDavid territory if you adjusted for 1 year difference in cap ceiling. Again im certain your using McDavid's cap hit% based on the cap ceiling the year before his contract kicked in. I dont agree with that nor would the agents who would be negotiating these contracts based on that cap ceiling the contract kicks in. The previous year would have no bearing

Edir: your welcome to reply but I won't be. Not getting into the same BS agin

 

[Dion TheFluff]

Just one game but I haven't really been impressed with Kane at all so far. Lafferty looks like he could be a good add though. Lots of speed and very tenacious on the forecheck.

 

[The Podium]

Just one game but I haven't really been impressed with Kane at all so far. Lafferty looks like he could be a good add though. Lots of speed and very tenacious on the forecheck.

Kane still has the hands and vision, just missing the supporting cast.

The Chicago D though have been awful… Murphy and McCabe are no better than Holl

Domi and Athanasiou (sp?) have also been bad. A lot of speed but not very effective and very easily knocked off the puck.

 

[OVO16]

Kane should not be a target considering the team we have. His skillset is not the one we need.

Lafferty on the other hand should be a target for sure

 

[Dekes For Days]

Google away, Marner wanted Matthews money.

Google says a lot of things - some of it true, some of it not - but it should also be noted that comparable =/= I want the exact same contract. There's no indication that Marner demanded the Matthews contract, and he certainly didn't get it either way.

 

[dubplatepressure]

Kane should not be a target considering the team we have. His skillset is not the one we need.

Lafferty on the other hand should be a target for sure

Meh. I don’t see anyone on that team I’m dying to add to ours.

 

[TMLAM34]

Lafferty would be a solid addition to the fourth line. Basically the only player that’s been noticeably in a positive way from Chicago…