Trades and Free Agency - 2022/2023 Trade Deadline Edition

[Dion TheFluff]

Why would there be an exception?

quality and pedigree of the player. I think it's safe to say that P. Kane is in a completely different class than what Foligno was

 

[kb]

how much was that? I can't even remember. Ideally we only move out like a 2nd and a prospect for him but he's good enough that I would be fine including a 1st ( not much else included though) for him

Kane's play this season has fallen off a cliff, and it's been reported he's playing through a hip injury of unknown severity.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Nope. The Leafs are arguably in the best cap situation of any contending team in the league and analysts (and HFboards) will have you believe we've been mismanaging the cap for years.

When Dubas realized he was going to have to figure out extensions for the big-3 he structured or acquired every big supporting deal (besides Rielly) so that we'd have large sums coming off the same year to ensure we have the money to extend them.

Also lined up a few deals to end when McDavid's contract ends lol

 

[Fogelhund]

That makes no sense given what Tank went for and Kane requires more money to be retained. Hell Foligno got a 1st and 2 4ths.

Kane's actual salary this year is $2.9 mil. The actual salary retention... today, for a third party team to take on 1/2 of 1/2 of the cap hit is $227k... That's not really a big burden.

Note: I'm not on the trade for Kane bandwagon... unless it's basically done as a favour for him, at a pretty low cost. Too many questions around his current play, as well as I do think we need more size up front, and depth. I mean, if we got Murphy and Kane.. for basically the cost of Murphy, and made it work...sure..But I'd still want to get a bit more size somewhere for the forwards...

 

[ToneDog]

With who kane had been playing... domi and anasthasiou big part of season...

Put matthews, marner nylander or jt with those 2 player, you will see their stats drop pretty fast

False

Kane real salary is 2.9, foligno was 5.5

2.9 < 5.5

We dont care about cap hit, the important thing its base salary

I was talking AAV and that has to work? I'm not going to get into the business of the cap but I am guessing at a minimum Hawks need to retain at least 50% (AAV). If another team is needed to retain 50% for it to work, guessing that alone will cost a 3rd or 4th.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Even at 50% the amount I'd give up for Kane would be almost nothing. Mid-round pick and a 3rd tier prospect like Kral.

It's possible he'll force his way to Toronto like Giroux did with Florida, but he'd probably still cost a lot more than that. Frankly I'd rather not take him. He's one of the worst defensive players even at his best, but he just looks all around bad this year. The only thing I would like about Kane is that he might fix our PP

 

[Morgs]

It's possible he'll force his way to Toronto like Giroux did with Florida, but he'd probably still cost a lot more than that. Frankly I'd rather not take him. He's one of the worst defensive players even at his best, but he just looks all around bad this year. The only thing I would like about Kane is that he might fix our PP

That's what I'm saying. I'd rather just pass on him and the headaches of the kind of guy he is/was unless he comes dirt cheap.

 

[Torontonian]

One of the worst defensive players in the league for a very long time and he's no longer creating anything for himself.

It’s a good thing we aren’t trading for Patrick Kane to play any defence for us, but you know for the problem we have had in multiple playoff runs, creating offence. He’s never been a goal scorer, but an elite playmaker, exactly how Marner is like.

Ofc the numbers from last season to this season are going to be awful, the team he is playing for is activity trying to lose games by icing an awful lineup.

 

[ToneDog]

Kane's actual salary this year is $2.9 mil. The actual salary retention... today, for a third party team to take on 1/2 of 1/2 of the cap hit is $227k... That's not really a big burden.

Note: I'm not on the trade for Kane bandwagon... unless it's basically done as a favour for him, at a pretty low cost. Too many questions around his current play, as well as I do think we need more size up front, and depth. I mean, if we got Murphy and Kane.. for basically the cost of Murphy, and made it work...sure..But I'd still want to get a bit more size somewhere for the forwards...

His AAV is $10m. I might be missing something but if I can get Kane at what has been suggested, it would have been done. He has to be healthy though. I've been hearing he might have hip issues.

 

[dubplatepressure]

quality and pedigree of the player. I think it's safe to say that P. Kane is in a completely different class than what Foligno was

Nah, doubt it. If there was going to be an exception it's for Timo Meier, who's an RFA at year's end rather than a UFA, plays a much heavier game, and is having a much better season (not to mention is 8 years yonger). That's 'exception' territory for me. Questionable pending UFAs (age, injury status) do not qualify as exception status to me.

 

[ACC1224]

Having nobody under contract is not good cap management.

Yeah pretty much but there is certainly a sweet spot between maxed out on contracts and having no one signed.
Neither is obviously ideal.

 

[thusk]

I was talking AAV and that has to work? I'm not going to get into the business of the cap but I am guessing at a minimum Hawks need to retain at least 50% (AAV). If another team is needed to retain 50% for it to work, guessing that alone will cost a 3rd or 4th.

Avv is only good for cap hit...
Kane real salary this season is 6.9M 4 M was a signing bonus during summer... so the money he win all seaso ling its 2.9M

Foligne AVV was 5.5 and he won 5.5 M in his last season with no bonus... kane will cost less than foligno to retain salary for that reason

 

[Morgs]

It’s a good thing we aren’t trading for Patrick Kane to play any defence for us, but you know for the problem we have had in multiple playoff runs, creating offence. He’s never been a goal scorer, but an elite playmaker, exactly how Marner is like.

Ofc the numbers from last season to this season are going to be awful, the team he is playing for is activity trying to lose games by icing an awful lineup.

Lol do you realize *everyone* plays defense on the ice. The fact is even when he was an elite player he was giving back as many chances/goals as he was getting. Phil was sure fun, but without the elite offensive play he would have been nothing. That's Kane right now.

Elite players create with or without players. You're basically saying "Kane was only good because of his linemates". He's injured, playing like complete shit, and who knows if it's going to get better or if he's just over the hump.

 

[Dreakmur]

Uh, no. It's perfect cap management. You literally have the ability to do anything you want to structure your team the way you want.

You can sign whoever you want, but you have to do it at the current cap numbers. Having no players signed under the old cap percentages puts you at a disadvantage.

 

[Kiwi]

The problem with most of us is we fixate on name recognition and past performance when what we should be looking for is guys either in or coming into there prime

Those are the guys we should be fixating on, especially if they have term still rather than a once great player like Kane was

No more Foligno's, I really want youth, current performance and health if possible

Throwing it out there, who are the guys that fit that, where would they slot in and how much are they likely to cost?

 

[ACC1224]

You can sign whoever you want, but you have to do it at the current cap numbers. Having no players signed under the old cap percentages puts you at a disadvantage.

Surprised that needs to be explained.

 

[rojac]

I was talking AAV and that has to work? I'm not going to get into the business of the cap but I am guessing at a minimum Hawks need to retain at least 50% (AAV). If another team is needed to retain 50% for it to work, guessing that alone will cost a 3rd or 4th.

It was a 4th for San Jose to retain 50% (25% of his total salary). That was for them paying ~$344K in salary and taking on a cap hit of $1.375M.

A similar deal for Kane would require a team to take on a cap hit of $2.625M and pay a salary of ~$180K so they might be able to get a team to do it for a 5th or lower pick or a minor prospect.

Note: The retained salary amount was a rough estimate for making the deal at 3/4 mark of the season (roughly the trade deadline). If a deal was made earlier, the amount would be higher. For example, if the deal was made today (Feb. 14), the third team retained salary would be ~$227K.

 

[dubplatepressure]

The problem with most of us is we fixate on name recognition and past performance when what we should be looking for is guys either in or coming into there prime

Those are the guys we should be fixating on, especially if they have term still rather than a once great player like Kane was

No more Foligno's, I really want youth, current performance and health if possible

Throwing it out there, who are the guys that fit that, where would they slot in and how much are they likely to cost?

I wonder if we'd consider Barclay Goodrow from NYR. He's got a caphit equal to Kerfoot, but he plays a much heavier game, PKs, and may be sacrificed by the rags for cap reasons. Wonder if we can get him and Kravtsov over here somehow - lotta upside there.

 

[SprDaVE]

The problem with most of us is we fixate on name recognition and past performance when what we should be looking for is guys either in or coming into there prime

Those are the guys we should be fixating on, especially if they have term still rather than a once great player like Kane was

No more Foligno's, I really want youth, current performance and health if possible

Throwing it out there, who are the guys that fit that, where would they slot in and how much are they likely to cost?

Meier and Chychrun would be the kind of players you want. Performing at above average levels with quite a few prime years ahead of them. In Meiers case at star levels.

The rest of the field are either really old or kind of struggle or super average at best.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

That's what I'm saying. I'd rather just pass on him and the headaches of the kind of guy he is/was unless he comes dirt cheap.

Without delving too much into the personal side, he's someone I'd assume Dubas wouldn't consider very strongly and I support that.

Strictly as a player, I can see why some might be interested in a guy who has shown to create offense and been a clutch performer. I just don't believe that's who he is anymore, and he's just as likely to drag the top 6 down with his awful defense as he is to carry us to a series win with his offense. There's far better options out there

 

[Dreakmur]

Surprised that needs to be explained.

It doesn’t really. The same guys who are saying the current cap structure is perfect are the same guys who said Marner wouldn’t be overpaid in years 4-5-6 when the cap went up. They’re the same guys who say Boston’s current cap structure is only good because their star players signed contracts under old cap numbers.

 

[ToneDog]

It was a 4th for San Jose to retain 50% (25% of his total salary). That was for them paying ~$344K in salary and taking on a cap hit of $1.375M.

A similar deal for Kane would require a team to take on a cap hit of $2.625M and pay a salary of ~$180K so they might be able to get a team to do it for a 5th or lower pick or a minor prospect.

Very good explanation. I said a 3rd or 4th but it might be cheaper. At the end of the day if I could get Kane for a 2nd or 3rd and Krall, count me in.

 

[thusk]

The problem with most of us is we fixate on name recognition and past performance when what we should be looking for is guys either in or coming into there prime

Those are the guys we should be fixating on, especially if they have term still rather than a once great player like Kane was

No more Foligno's, I really want youth, current performance and health if possible

Throwing it out there, who are the guys that fit that, where would they slot in and how much are they likely to cost?

Kane still playing at high level contrairly to foligno

Its like using matthews with holmberg and kerfoot at even strenght and you adding rielly and bunting on pp and at the be surprising than his production just drop...

 

[1specter]

The more we get closer to the deadline, the more I think Dubas will just stand pat, or bank on Knies joining the team late in the season. Not ideal but it's looking like a seller's market...

 

[HockeyVirus]

Just saying if Kane has anything left in the tank, he wants to be here to play with Matthews basically. It would mean Marner can stay with Tavares and Matthews gets a playmaking winger in Kane.

Which means Nylander is free'd up to be put in a Kessel type role. I think he has shown he can generate for himself this year, and I think he would roast other teams bottom 6 and pairings. Bonus points if we got Wily and Knies was an NHLer, we'd have a legit 3rd line.