Trades and Free Agency - 2022/2023 Trade Deadline Edition

[horner]

I still think Chychrun will be moved prior to the trade deadline...of his walk year (2024/25)!

He won't get traded Arizona screws everything up.

Arizona says they wouldn't mind retaining in Chychrun. How would people feel about Chychrun at 2.5 million per year? Would you then be okay with giving up Knies?

No

 

[Gabriel426]

One thing for sure about this Chychrun trade saga.

He won't be traded TO Arizona. I am 100% certain, Arizona will not trade for Chychrun.
Don't ask me for the source, as I cannot reveal them.

 

[horner]

personally no.

Now before anyone says - well knies isn't even a blue chip prospect sure fire first liner.

Well yes, BUT... knies represents the most rarest of player types. If you trade knies, and if he reaches his potential, that's going to be way way way worse than the whole seguin debacle. The most rarest commodity is a power forward, a RHD number 1 who is great at defense and a 2 way centre. And right now the former is probably the rarest in the league.

JMO.

We have no prospect with his size and physicality.

 

[Americanadian]

Technically, as long as Knies doesn't sign a pro-contract, he can be a UFA in the summer, right?
Whats stopping Leafs to wink wink a deal with Knies till the summer?

Summer 2025.

 

[horner]

I’m torn on giving up Knies in a Chychrun trade, but I would absolutely trade Knies in a Meier trade.

No to knies.
We will be looking for a 6"3" power forward in the future.

Guess what he won't be found.

Niemela I would trade for him

we already have Sandin

Spencer Martin is on waiver
Cheap cap hit
GAA sucks but anyone would suck in Vancouver

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

Leafs - Wild
Ryan Hartman
For
Nick Robertson & Alex Kerfoot

Leafs - Flyers
Scott Laughton
For
2nd ‘24 & Sens 3rd

Bunting - Matthews - Marner
Jarnkrok - Tavares - Nylander
Knies - Laughton - Hartman
Holmberg - Kampf - Engvall

 

[dubplatepressure]

Leafs - Wild
Ryan Hartman
For
Nick Robertson & Alex Kerfoot

Leafs - Flyers
Scott Laughton
For
2nd ‘24 & Sens 3rd

Bunting - Matthews - Marner
Jarnkrok - Tavares - Nylander
Knies - Laughton - Hartman
Holmberg - Kampf - Engvall

I’ve liked previous versions of Hartman but he’s been benched this year for taking repeated bad penalties. I dunno… that kind of shit gets extremely old extremely fast in the playoffs.

 

[Buds17]

He won't get traded Arizona screws everything up.


No

They can theoretically ask for the moon right now because time is still on their side. This saga not ultimately ending with a trade would make for quite the unexpected conclusion though.

 

[Nhlpowerweek]

Zadorov is another huge sucka stud who we need. But calgary already has him hard. We need players who just stand and others is scared of them. Simmonds is not enough

 

[ryno23]

If I was Dubas I would be looking at a 3C who can chip in with offense in case one of the big 2 goes down in the playoff that way it keeps Kerfoot away from C.

I would be looking to upgrade on Holl as you have Timmins waiting in the wings as a backup.

for 3C you are looking at a Nick Bonino situation in Pit when he played behind Crosby and Malkin and gave them good offense along with Kessel on their Cup runs.

Is Luke Scheen an upgrade on Holl as the 3rd pairing D for the playoffs? Is Schenn more reliable than Holl? You will have Broadie and Lilly on the right side with Timmins in case of injury. Left you have Rielly, Sandin, and Gio with Benn in next.

Nick Bugstad for your 3C who is a big boy plus Schenn is around 1.8 mill. You deal Holl for one of those players and a B-level prospect you added without really subtracting.

 

[Phion Keneuf]

Leafs - Wild
Ryan Hartman
For
Nick Robertson & Alex Kerfoot

Leafs - Flyers
Scott Laughton
For
2nd ‘24 & Sens 3rd

Bunting - Matthews - Marner
Jarnkrok - Tavares - Nylander
Knies - Laughton - Hartman
Holmberg - Kampf - Engvall

Yes to Laughton, no to Hartman for me. Would rather use that package + to land someone like Henrique.

Think it would take more to land Laughton though

 

[Knies iT]

There’s really no trade available that i’d want Knies involved in, Meier included.

This team hasn’t developed a non-1st rd pick into a top 6 forward yet in 7 or so years. You need to be able to produce at least one impact guy outside of the 1st rd, and not just depth filler pieces like Engvall, Johnsson, Grundstrom, etc. (although that’s also important).

Robertson’s career is looking like a big question mark. Amirov is self explanatory. If you move Knies, you are looking at 2-4 years out before you can maybe get an impact from mystery box long shots like Voit, Hirvonen, etc. and that’s without the 1st that would also be involved, again.

Yeah they need a needle mover today. But they also need ELC contributors on a 3yr league min + 2yr bridge setup that can actually bolster the group. Dubas needs to do both of those things and that’s just the cold reality of the position the team is in. Too much has been liquidated.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

If I was Dubas I would be looking at a 3C who can chip in with offense in case one of the big 2 goes down in the playoff that way it keeps Kerfoot away from C.

I would be looking to upgrade on Holl as you have Timmins waiting in the wings as a backup.

for 3C you are looking at a Nick Bonino situation in Pit when he played behind Crosby and Malkin and gave them good offense along with Kessel on their Cup runs.

Is Luke Scheen an upgrade on Holl as the 3rd pairing D for the playoffs? Is Schenn more reliable than Holl? You will have Broadie and Lilly on the right side with Timmins in case of injury. Left you have Rielly, Sandin, and Gio with Benn in next.

Nick Bugstad for your 3C who is a big boy plus Schenn is around 1.8 mill. You deal Holl for one of those players and a B-level prospect you added without really subtracting.

Nick Bjugstad is not an answer for this team.

He is shooting at a career best shooting percentage and is getting 17 minutes a night in Arizona and he still is not at a 0.5 PPG. Sure ARI sucks, but he is also getting top 6 minutes that he would never get here.

He is a big body who is not even all that physical, despite decent hit totals, and is mostly just a passable offensive depth option for a team that has run out of much better choices or does not have the cap space for anyone better. So maybe Tampa, Vegas, or Edmonton. We have better choices and we have enough cap space to chase better options.

Also, Schenn is a downgrade on Holl so it makes no sense for the Leafs because you are subtracting. Holl is 49th in xGA/60 out of the top 175 defensemen in 5v5 ice time and is T-64th in actual GA/60. Schenn is 142th in GA/60 and 145th in xGA/60. Unless you have a paper-thin defensive corps or a ton of injuries, he is a #7 at best on a contender. We have neither, and he would not upgrade anyone in our lineup. It is even arguable that he would not upgrade Timmins as our #7.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Yes to Laughton, no to Hartman for me. Would rather use that package + to land someone like Henrique.

Think it would take more to land Laughton though

I would just cut it off at Laughton and keep Kerfoot.

The issue with Laughton, however, is he doesn't solve depth scoring. Sure he has 31 points in 51 games... But this is also the first time (at least in a while) that he is getting serious PP time and he is scoring a ridiculous amount SH (7 points on the PK vs only 15 at ES).

He is also playing more minutes than any forward on our team not named Matthews or Marner, and those minutes would get cut hard here. His ES scoring rate is worse than Kampf's.

He is a fine defensive forward with some grit who could be a good replacement for Kampf but that is not what we need right now. And the last thing this team needs is to continue chasing grit adds who do not help us in the areas we really need help.

 

[GQS]

if Knies is the main piece, than it's a no brainer for me.Young great defensemen don't grow on trees either and our window is now, not two-four year's from now (which is how far Knies is out). And as you said it's not a for sure thing he will even be more than a 4th liner. Tavares will be two years older, Brodie, Nylander, Matthews and Bunting going to need raises.

Chychrun is cost controlled and an excellent player. He's also very young so this isn't young players for an old veteran.

Trading for Chychrun doesn't make our future any less bright. Which is key.

What have we seen from Chychrun that makes it seem like he's a franchise level Dman that makes him worth throwing a ton of assets to get him? In previous years it was a guy like Dumba that some Leafs fans obsessed over and wanted to throw big assets at to get and then it was Trouba and this year its Chychrun.

You certainly value him much higher than I do because I don't see Chychrun as some game changing Dman that will vastly improve the Leafs to be in the true contender category. Sure he'll help, but I think Knies can possibly make just as much an impact if not more so on the Leafs as early as next season if not perhaps this season if he signs and is given some games to see what he can do.

Also you're trading for a Dman that has yet to play a full 82 NHL game season in his career so far so if people are worried about the ability of Robertson to stay healthy playing in the NHL, shouldn't we be thinking the same about Chychrun given his injury history?

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Look back at what Carolina paid for Domi last year. They got him double retained for literally nothing (Korshkov). I'm sure a trade like that will happen this year.

Technically the real piece they gave up was Hreschuk, who was a late 3rd round pick.

Also, Domi is just not that good of a hockey player. He may attract a bit of attention this year since he is playing a bit better with Chicago, and the options for good scoring forwards is a little bit weak unless you get your hands on one of the aging/oft-injured vets like Bertuzzi, Kane, JVR, ROR, Toews, Monahan, Nyquist, Drouin, etc. (and let's be honest, most of those guys are not playing particularly well right now and you are counting on them returning to form with better teams and better health). After those guys, it is pretty much just Domi and Barbashev before you start getting into Bjugstad, Ritchie, Sundqvist, Dadonov, Bonino, etc.... And none of those guys should be moving the needle on competitive teams.

What have we seen from Chychrun that makes it seem like he's a franchise level Dman that makes him worth throwing a ton of assets to get him? In previous years it was a guy like Dumba that some Leafs fans obsessed over and wanted to throw big assets at to get and then it was Trouba and this year its Chychrun.

You certainly value him much higher than I do because I don't see Chychrun as some game changing Dman that will vastly improve the Leafs to be in the true contender category. Sure he'll help, but I think Knies can possibly make just as much an impact if not more so on the Leafs as early as next season if not perhaps this season if he signs and is given some games to see what he can do.

Also you're trading for a Dman that has yet to play a full 82 NHL game season in his career so far so if people are worried about the ability of Robertson to stay healthy playing in the NHL, shouldn't we be thinking the same about Chychrun given his injury history?

You should arguably be more worried. Robertson's injuries were freak injuries that he can probably fix with improved skating balance (as long as he is not already broken from the injuries he has). Chychrun's injuries are far more serious and concerning... Arguably like Matthews but far worse.

 

[ER89]

Technically the real piece they gave up was Hreschuk, who was a late 3rd round pick.

Also, Domi is just not that good of a hockey player. He may attract a bit of attention this year since he is playing a bit better with Chicago, and the options for good scoring forwards is a little bit weak unless you get your hands on one of the aging/oft-injured vets like Bertuzzi, Kane, JVR, ROR, Toews, Monahan, Nyquist, Drouin, etc. (and let's be honest, most of those guys are not playing particularly well right now and you are counting on them returning to form with better teams and better health). After those guys, it is pretty much just Domi and Barbashev before you start getting into Bjugstad, Ritchie, Sundqvist, Dadonov, Bonino, etc.... And none of those guys should be moving the needle on competitive teams.



You should arguably be more worried. Robertson's injuries were freak injuries that he can probably fix with improved skating balance (as long as he is not already broken from the injuries he has). Chychrun's injuries are far more serious and concerning... Arguably like Matthews but far worse.

This hold true if Robertson develops the strength to stay in the NHL. That last hit that took him out should not have been as impactful as it was imo

 

[ryno23]

Nick Bjugstad is not an answer for this team.

He is shooting at a career best shooting percentage and is getting 17 minutes a night in Arizona and he still is not at a 0.5 PPG. Sure ARI sucks, but he is also getting top 6 minutes that he would never get here.

He is a big body who is not even all that physical, despite decent hit totals, and is mostly just a passable offensive depth option for a team that has run out of much better choices or does not have the cap space for anyone better. So maybe Tampa, Vegas, or Edmonton. We have better choices and we have enough cap space to chase better options.

Also, Schenn is a downgrade on Holl so it makes no sense for the Leafs because you are subtracting. Holl is 49th in xGA/60 out of the top 175 defensemen in 5v5 ice time and is T-64th in actual GA/60. Schenn is 142th in GA/60 and 145th in xGA/60. Unless you have a paper-thin defensive corps or a ton of injuries, he is a #7 at best on a contender. We have neither, and he would not upgrade anyone in our lineup. It is even arguable that he would not upgrade Timmins as our #7.

and that is a reason why advanced stats suck. You put all the fancy stats you want but come a playoff series where the games ramp up and get harder and dirtier Holl is useless and has shown over 3 playoff series to be a liability. Maybe TB had it all wrong to use him in their Cup-winning year but hey why trust a team that has B2B Stanley cup on who can make meaningful contributions to a cup winner vs looking at a spreadsheet.

 

[thusk]

If I was Dubas I would be looking at a 3C who can chip in with offense in case one of the big 2 goes down in the playoff that way it keeps Kerfoot away from C.

I would be looking to upgrade on Holl as you have Timmins waiting in the wings as a backup.

for 3C you are looking at a Nick Bonino situation in Pit when he played behind Crosby and Malkin and gave them good offense along with Kessel on their Cup runs.

Is Luke Scheen an upgrade on Holl as the 3rd pairing D for the playoffs? Is Schenn more reliable than Holl? You will have Broadie and Lilly on the right side with Timmins in case of injury. Left you have Rielly, Sandin, and Gio with Benn in next.

Nick Bugstad for your 3C who is a big boy plus Schenn is around 1.8 mill. You deal Holl for one of those players and a B-level prospect you added without really subtracting.

Sure trading 1 of their top 3 D for vancouver 5-6th D will upgrade the team...

Whatever what most of leafs fans telling against Holl, right now hes one of top 3 leafs D. You can like what hes doing or dislike it but don't change the fact hes a top 3 D in that D right now

And please dont tell me the second pair is sandin and liljegren who played likeb16-17 every game unless if leafs had a huge lead and tried to rest brodie/rielly a little bit

What have we seen from Chychrun that makes it seem like he's a franchise level Dman that makes him worth throwing a ton of assets to get him? In previous years it was a guy like Dumba that some Leafs fans obsessed over and wanted to throw big assets at to get and then it was Trouba and this year its Chychrun.

You certainly value him much higher than I do because I don't see Chychrun as some game changing Dman that will vastly improve the Leafs to be in the true contender category. Sure he'll help, but I think Knies can possibly make just as much an impact if not more so on the Leafs as early as next season if not perhaps this season if he signs and is given some games to see what he can do.

Also you're trading for a Dman that has yet to play a full 82 NHL game season in his career so far so if people are worried about the ability of Robertson to stay healthy playing in the NHL, shouldn't we be thinking the same about Chychrun given his injury history?

Exactly people see in Chychrun what they hoping for and not what the player really is.. you can add Parayko to that list

I see Chychryn like a good 3rd D on a second pair to solidifying a D but if we read post about chychrun here, some people talking about chychrun pratically the same way than a younger victor Hedman...

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

and that is a reason why advanced stats suck. You put all the fancy stats you want but come a playoff series where the games ramp up and get harder and dirtier Holl is useless and has shown over 3 playoff series to be a liability. Maybe TB had it all wrong to use him in their Cup-winning year but hey why trust a team that has B2B Stanley cup on who can make meaningful contributions to a cup winner vs looking at a spreadsheet.

Quality of competition matters. Put Schenn in Holls role and he would get absolutely demolished.

I'm fine adding another Schenn type to Benn to rotate in as the 7/8 guy but no way in hell do I want him facing the top competition in this division with the speed they have.

As much as people hate Holl he can at least get decent results against those guys when he has a partner like Gio or Brodie.

 

[thusk]

and that is a reason why advanced stats suck. You put all the fancy stats you want but come a playoff series where the games ramp up and get harder and dirtier Holl is useless and has shown over 3 playoff series to be a liability. Maybe TB had it all wrong to use him in their Cup-winning year but hey why trust a team that has B2B Stanley cup on who can make meaningful contributions to a cup winner vs looking at a spreadsheet.

Last playoff in 5 game vs tampa allowed 2 goal at even strenght and only on pk.. his partner in 7 game allowed 4 goal and 3 goal on pk...

Vs habs

Only 3 goal against at even strenght and 2 on pp playong top defensive situation

The only series he struggle, he played with dermott/Marincin/rielly on top defensive situation...

and that is a reason why advanced stats suck. You put all the fancy stats you want but come a playoff series where the games ramp up and get harder and dirtier Holl is useless and has shown over 3 playoff series to be a liability. Maybe TB had it all wrong to use him in their Cup-winning year but hey why trust a team that has B2B Stanley cup on who can make meaningful contributions to a cup winner vs looking at a spreadsheet.

Last playoff in 5 game vs tampa allowed 2 goal at even strenght and only on pk.. his partner in 7 game allowed 4 goal and 3 goal on pk...

Vs habs

Only 3 goal against at even strenght and 2 on pp

The only series he struggle, he played with dermott/Marincin/rielly on top defensive situation...

 

[SprDaVE]

Quality of competition matters. Put Schenn in Holls role and he would get absolutely demolished.

I'm fine adding another Schenn type to Benn to rotate in as the 7/8 guy but no way in hell do I want him facing the top competition in this division with the speed they have.

As much as people hate Holl he can at least get decent results against those guys when he has a partner like Gio or Brodie.

I just don't know why they need to add on top of Timmins and Benn as the #7 and #8. Heck even Mete probably will be ready by the playoffs, he's a fine depth guy. Would we be waiving Benn again? Seems weird considering he's been solid and whoever you trade for will probably be the same quality.

Adding a defenseman means we're trading one to me. Or there's a last minute LTIR injury to one. I like Sandin a lot but he's probably the only one with a lot of value and the most expendable for the right guy. And no, Holl isn't being traded.

There aren't many great fits that would make me even think about trading Sandin by the deadline.

 

[dubplatepressure]

I just don't know why they need to add on top of Timmins and Benn as the #7 and #8. Heck even Mete probably will be ready by the playoffs, he's a fine depth guy. Would we be waiving Benn again? Seems weird considering he's been solid and whoever you trade for will probably be the same quality.

Adding a defenseman means we're trading one to me. Or there's a last minute LTIR injury to one. I like Sandin a lot but he's probably the only one with a lot of value and the most expendable for the right guy. And no, Holl isn't being traded.

There aren't many great fits that would make me even think about trading Sandin by the deadline.

I agree - our depth pieces are actually pretty excellent - they've all proven they can play in the top-6 and not look out of place. Benn would be a monster in the playoffs.

 

[Torontonian]

Wonder if Vrana is someone Dubas would be looking into, not quite sure of his situation in Detroit, I know he checked into the players assistance program but other then that I haven’t heard he’s been a bad team player and the reasoning for being sent down to the AHL/not playing for Detroit again.

Two years left at 5.25m, if Detroit just wants to get rid of him for nothing and retain salary, he’s put up quality numbers prior, but can’t seem to play a full season.

 

[Fogelhund]

I agree - our depth pieces are actually pretty excellent - they've all proven they can play in the top-6 and not look out of place. Benn would be a monster in the playoffs.

We have very good depth. The Schenn talk is weird. He's getting caved, as a #6 in Vancouver..yet somehow would be a great #3 here? I am not opposed to trading for him, but maybe a 5th round pick... I'd think someone with less depth would pay more.

The only D moves we should make, are legitimate upgrades. Chychrun would be an upgrade over Sandin... but at what cost? Ekholm could be a good addition, Gavrikov... But Gavrikov could be just a rental, and I'd like to stay away from that. I'd love to find a way to upgrade the D, and it's physicality, but the key is finding players who at least play hockey as well as our current group.