Trades and Free Agency - 2022/2023 Trade Deadline Edition

[Morgs]

Not necessarily, they could trade Meier on a trade and sign deal and recoup some assets.
And Nylander is here for another year regardless.
The idea of Meier being signed means Nylander is gone reminds me of all the posters who said we could never keep all of Nylander, Matthews, Marner and Tavares.
Never say never!!!

Yep. Its been proven by a few people in here too it's just not the case unless Nylander and Matthews want insane raises.

We might have to go scorched earth with the bottom-6 on ELC and minimum contracts for just the 2024-25 season while Tavares is still making 11, but that's the only season where fitting in all the contracts is even a remote issue. If Meier signed for around 8.5 longterm we'd have around 5M to sign players in the bottom 6 assuming Murray is traded and Samsonov is resigned at around what Murray makes.

The cap is not an issue when going for Meier. It's just a question on if Dubas thinks it's worth it and whether the acquisition price is possible.

 

[Mess]

What's the deal with Bertuzzi and his travel status? Something about not being able to come to Canada?

Those were only Covid restriction rules ..

Those no longer apply to open Canada /USA borders.

 

[showtime8]

Montreal Series ... you can see where players should have done more.

View attachment 649242

Not sure what you're trying to say by this?

 

[kb]

Yep. Its been proven by a few people in here too it's just not the case unless Nylander and Matthews want insane raises.

We might have to go scorched earth with the bottom-6 on ELC and minimum contracts for just the 2024-25 season while Tavares is still making 11, but that's the only season where fitting in all the contracts is even a remote issue. If Meier signed for around 8.5 longterm we'd have around 5M to sign players in the bottom 6 assuming Murray is traded and Samsonov is resigned at around what Murray makes.

The cap is not an issue when going for Meier. It's just a question on if Dubas thinks it's worth it and whether the acquisition price is possible.

Yeah, that's just it. It works for sure. The only issue I see is 2024-25. @4thline had put up a good roster for 2023-24 showing that the leafs could run a 21 player roster and the Leafs could spend $5 million on 2 3rd liners.

The issue isn't just Nylander and Matthews, as there is a bigger issue with Sandin and Liljegren requiring raises too.

The Leafs have 2 options. They can A) only sign those 3rd liners for next season and let them walk UFA, or B) sign the players for longer, but trade them after 2023-24 to recoup more assets. But regardless, the Leafs will have to clear the bottom 6 decks the summer before 2024-25.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Not sure the price Id pay but seeing Tampa get Bertuzzi would sting a lot.

Brings some needed elements to the top 9 with some upside.

 

[ULF_55]

Not sure what you're trying to say by this?

You said:

I would definitely agree that Keefe could have done more in previous games. But I'm talking about the general sentiment that the players should be held more accountable. I get that it's easier to blame / fire 1, than replace all.

Hard to blame Keefe when core players fail to show up.
Agreeing with you that the players should be held more accountable.
Don't make excuses when they fall on their face, or try and blame the coach when they fail to deliver.

 

[ER89]

Yep. Its been proven by a few people in here too it's just not the case unless Nylander and Matthews want insane raises.

We might have to go scorched earth with the bottom-6 on ELC and minimum contracts for just the 2024-25 season while Tavares is still making 11, but that's the only season where fitting in all the contracts is even a remote issue. If Meier signed for around 8.5 longterm we'd have around 5M to sign players in the bottom 6 assuming Murray is traded and Samsonov is resigned at around what Murray makes.

The cap is not an issue when going for Meier. It's just a question on if Dubas thinks it's worth it and whether the acquisition price is possible.

Glad to have you back. Finally. Been saying this.

 

[showtime8]

You said:


Hard to blame Keefe when core players fail to show up.
Agreeing with you that the players should be held more accountable.
Don't make excuses when they fall on their face, or try and blame the coach when they fail to deliver.

Okay, that's what I was thinking, but just wanted to make sure.

Dubas has hitched his wagons to this core and coach, so he's at their mercy from here on out. He's tried adjusting the deck chairs on the 3rd and 4th line.

I think the core 4 forwards are talented and they do need to be surrounded a bit better. But they're the ones that need to drive play in the playoffs and be the difference makers. Like Kucherov was with Tampa.

 

[ULF_55]

Yeah, that's just it. It works for sure. The only issue I see is 2024-25. @4thline had put up a good roster for 2023-24 showing that the leafs could run a 21 player roster and the Leafs could spend $5 million on 2 3rd liners.

The issue isn't just Nylander and Matthews, as there is a bigger issue with Sandin and Liljegren requiring raises too.

The Leafs have 2 options. They can A) only sign those 3rd liners for next season and let them walk UFA, or B) sign the players for longer, but trade them after 2023-24 to recoup more assets. But regardless, the Leafs will have to clear the bottom 6 decks the summer before 2024-25.

Would it be better if they could land another center capable of playing in the top 6, to play on the 3rd. line?

How much better would this team look if Kerfoot was O'Rielly, with no other changes? A healthy O'Reilly.
Or a comparable player to O'Reilly.

Just one change.

 

[Mess]

Okay, that's what I was thinking, but just wanted to make sure.

Dubas has hitched his wagons to this core and coach, so he's at their mercy from here on out. He's tried adjusting the deck chairs on the 3rd and 4th line.

I think the core 4 forwards are talented and they do need to be surrounded a bit better. But they're the ones that need to drive play in the playoffs and be the difference makers. Like Kucherov was with Tampa.

Problem is odds are low that only 4 core players can carry a team through 4 rounds of potentially 7 game series each.

Slow down, nullify or offset that offense at par and suddenly its Leafs depth now that needs to be better than the opposition and do it for a lot less money and cap space.

Trying to win consistently with 3 X $11 mil players is a strategy with the deck stacked against you.

My suggestion for a long time is balance the attack and spread the wealth across more lines. Each $11 mil player should be on their own line and then I would add Willy to provide a finisher for Marner on his line.

 

[kb]

Would it be better if they could land another center capable of playing in the top 6, to play on the 3rd. line?

How much better would this team look if Kerfoot was O'Rielly, with no other changes? A healthy O'Reilly.
Or a comparable player to O'Reilly.

Just one change.

Well, we only have to look back at Kadri on the 3rd line. If the Leafs are paying a top-6 price for a player to play in the bottom-6, that is a very poor use of resources.

If the Leafs acquire Meier and say Tavares goes down, then the Leafs could run Matthews/Marner and Nylander/Meier as pairs on the first and second line still, with Bunting and Jarnkrok rounding out the top-6.

Still looks formidable.

I would suggest this trade with SJ.

1st (2024), Niemela, Robertson, Abruzzese, Kerfoot for Meier (25% retained) and Nick Bonino.

Even if there is an injury at C, there is depth. Take out Tavares or Matthews, and the Leafs would still have Matthews/Tavares, Nylander, Bonino, Kampf, Holmberg down the middle.

 

[Gary Nylund]

You said:


Hard to blame Keefe when core players fail to show up.
Agreeing with you that the players should be held more accountable.
Don't make excuses when they fall on their face, or try and blame the coach when they fail to deliver.

+1

 

[ULF_55]

Well, we only have to look back at Kadri on the 3rd line. If the Leafs are paying a top-6 price for a player to play in the bottom-6, that is a very poor use of resources.

If the Leafs acquire Meier and say Tavares goes down, then the Leafs could run Matthews/Marner and Nylander/Meier as pairs on the first and second line still, with Bunting and Jarnkrok rounding out the top-6.

Still looks formidable.

I would suggest this trade with SJ.

1st (2024), Niemela, Robertson, Abruzzese, Kerfoot for Meier (25% retained) and Nick Bonino.

Even if there is an injury at C, there is depth. Take out Tavares or Matthews, and the Leafs would still have Matthews/Tavares, Nylander, Bonino, Kampf down the middle.

Perhaps, but then it reverts back to top 6 to produce, bottom 6 try to not get scored on.

I suppose just see centers as more valuable.

When your number 3 center has no shooting ability, he might as well be Kampf.

And when one of your top 2 centers go down your left with no capable 2nd. line.

 

[kb]

Perhaps, but then it reverts back to top 6 to produce, bottom 6 try to not get scored on.

I suppose just see centers as more valuable.

When your number 3 center has no shooting ability, he might as well be Kampf.

If any team lost a Tavares or Matthews, yes - the ability to score takes a hit. That happens for all 32 teams, it's not just unique to the Leafs.

The Leafs are still better equipped than most to handle this as is.

Heck, Holmberg is scoring at a pace higher than 95% of 3rd line C's. 2.48 pts/60. And he's not yet a regular, but should be.

Let's solve a real issue. Add more high-end scoring and add more good 2 way players to upgrade the floor of the roster, and not worry about trading for hypothetical injuries to one position and overspending for that privilege.

Matthews would be playing if this was the playoffs, they are giving him the rest in a very soft part of the schedule.

 

[ULF_55]

If any team lost a Tavares or Matthews, yes - the ability to score takes a hit. That happens for all 32 teams, it's not just unique to the Leafs.

The Leafs are still better equipped than most to handle this as is.

Heck, Holmberg is scoring at a pace higher than 95% of 3rd line C's. 2.48 pts/60. And he's not yet a regular, but should be.

Let's solve a real issue. Add more high-end scoring and add more good 2 way players to upgrade the floor of the roster, and not worry about trading for hypothetical injuries to one position and overspending for that privilege.

Matthews would be playing if this was the playoffs, they are giving him the rest in a very soft part of the schedule.

Then my guess is your laying the blame squarely on Keefe's deployment.

Kerfoot is becoming almost comical in his inability to shoot the puck.

 

[Cleetus]

Then my guess is your laying the blame squarely on Keefe's deployment.

Kerfoot is becoming almost comical in his inability to shoot the puck.

he really must have absolutely zero confidence, he looks like a player who questions every move he makes, a few weeks ago he was in a prime shooting spot, and double clutched and shot it into a guys shinpad....

 

[smitty10]

Foligno was the big fish because he filled that need (in theory).

He also spent assets on needed depth in Benning and brought Riley Nash. And then trading for goaltender depth in Rittich which was needed in lieu of Andersen’s injuries.

He solidified all of the rosters needs at the time.

Also brought in Muzzin as the big fish in 2019 … and then acquired Clifford and Campbell to address the toughness/backup goalie needs in 2020.

Lots of solid moves without gutting the farm

What I was getting at was that we're in a window right now where the team should be looking to win now. Using the examples I gave previously, our competition have invested far more heavily in impact players than we have, and it's generally paid off for them.

We, on the other hand, have generally invested in depth players. Using your example of Hutton, Rittich, Nash and Foligno in 2021. Foligno was the only impact guy and he was unfortunately injured. The rest played 4 games or less with the Leafs down the stretch. Those are just depth moves.

Your example from 2019 was a bit different as this team had a ton of major holes and those were more long term trades than deadline moves.

We know the current holes on the Leafs. They need a top 6 forward and a top 4 Dman to replace Muzzin to some extent. A physical forward to create some energy would also be nice. We will see if Dubas addresses these or goes into the playoffs with those holes.

 

[kb]

Then my guess is your laying the blame squarely on Keefe's deployment.

Kerfoot is becoming almost comical in his inability to shoot the puck.

Kerfoot lost me this season, yes. But no matter what we think, he is still one of their 12 best forwards. Unlike fans on a message board, coach Keefe doesn't care one iota about judging a player's performance compared to his cap hit.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Then my guess is your laying the blame squarely on Keefe's deployment.

Kerfoot is becoming almost comical in his inability to shoot the puck.

Always remember, Kerfoot = or maybe even slightly > Kadri.

 

[Warden of the North]

Those were only Covid restriction rules ..

Those no longer apply to open Canada /USA borders.

No, there's something about it that still applies. Marek and Friedman talked about it this week. I believe its something to do with work visa status.

 

[OVO16]

At least find a way to grab both Lafferty and Barbashev. Both are Fast, Big, and physical and have offensive upside. Would be far more instrumental for the playoffs over Kerfoot.

If we can add Knies in the playoffs as well, suddenly our bottom 6 looks more playoff ready.

Engvall - Kampf - Barbashev
ZAR - Lafferty - Knies

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Kerfoot lost me this season, yes. But no matter what we think, he is still one of their 12 best forwards. Unlike fans on a message board, coach Keefe doesn't care one iota about judging a player's performance compared to his cap hit.

For me, he is still a high end possession player who is putting up what he normally does in his career (around 40 points) despite having a much lower shooting percentage and playing in a much more defensive role than he has in the past.

If he just had another 3 goals or something, which would get him up to his career average, then I don't think you are finding many players who can do what he does in his role... And even less who do it for less than 3.5 mill.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

If any team lost a Tavares or Matthews, yes - the ability to score takes a hit. That happens for all 32 teams, it's not just unique to the Leafs.

The Leafs are still better equipped than most to handle this as is.

Heck, Holmberg is scoring at a pace higher than 95% of 3rd line C's. 2.48 pts/60. And he's not yet a regular, but should be.

Let's solve a real issue. Add more high-end scoring and add more good 2 way players to upgrade the floor of the roster, and not worry about trading for hypothetical injuries to one position and overspending for that privilege.

Matthews would be playing if this was the playoffs, they are giving him the rest in a very soft part of the schedule.

A bottom 6 shutdown line with Kerfoot, Engvall, and Kampf would be excellent. We just need someone better than ZAR to add more of an offensive punch to the 4th line. When we already have a solid shutdown line, we don't need a guy who is solid but unspectacular defensively who throws inconsequential hits and gets a point every 7 games.

I am still holding out hope that it is something like Knies - ROR - Holmberg. Not confident in Holmberg's faceoff ability to make him a full time center at this point, but he makes that a strong two-way line that should be able to score goals. Or you can put Anderson there if you want more grit.

Teams would have to deal with Bunting - Matthews - Nylander, then Jarnkrok - Tavares - Marner, and then their "easy" line would be Knies - ROR - Holmberg... All the while trying to break through a Engvall - Kampf - Kerfoot line which, for the most part, has been excellent at preventing goals even against tougher competition... And they have counter-attack ability.

And your PP would be Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Nylander, Rielly followed up by ROR, Knies, Bunting, Jarnkrok/Kerfoot/Engvall/Holmberg/Liljegren, Sandin... That is two pretty good units.

ROR can also PK (he has sucked this year, but so has STL on the whole; he was excellent last year) so you would have three good PK forward units as well (Kampf, Marner, Engvall, Kerfoot, ROR, and Jarnkrok) with two guys (Kampf and ROR) who can win faceoffs.

 

[kb]

A bottom 6 shutdown line with Kerfoot, Engvall, and Kampf would be excellent. We just need someone better than ZAR to add more of an offensive punch to the 4th line. When we already have a solid shutdown line, we don't need a guy who is solid but unspectacular defensively who throws inconsequential hits and gets a point every 7 games.

I am still holding out hope that it is something like Knies - ROR - Holmberg. Not confident in Holmberg's faceoff ability to make him a full time center at this point, but he makes that a strong two-way line that should be able to score goals. Or you can put Anderson there if you want more grit.

Teams would have to deal with Bunting - Matthews - Nylander, then Jarnkrok - Tavares - Marner, and then their "easy" line would be Knies - ROR - Holmberg... All the while trying to break through a Engvall - Kampf - Kerfoot line which, for the most part, has been excellent at preventing goals even against tougher competition... And they have counter-attack ability.

And your PP would be Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Nylander, Rielly followed up by ROR, Knies, Bunting, Jarnkrok/Kerfoot/Engvall/Holmberg/Liljegren, Sandin... That is two pretty good units.

ROR can also PK (he has sucked this year, but so has STL on the whole; he was excellent last year) so you would have three good PK forward units as well (Kampf, Marner, Engvall, Kerfoot, ROR, and Jarnkrok) with two guys (Kampf and ROR) who can win faceoffs.

I can see this approach too, but the issue I have is paying a top-6 price for a bottom-6 player. I mean, he's not a bottom-6 player when healthy, but he also won't be deployed here as a top-6. His name recognition value will raise his cost.

I think the poorest use of assets is paying a top-6 rental price for a bottom-6 player, especially since a significant portion of the cost will be retention.

 

[Gabriel426]

If Meier is the guy they get, Keefe really needs better balance to create three good lines instead of just loading up the top 6.