Trades and Free Agency - 2022/2023 Trade Deadline Edition

[SprDaVE]

IMO he’s just not a blue chip prospect - he’s a tier below that. Whatever you want to call that - excellent / top 6 / very good / etc.

I’ve never once seen anyone here indicate they want to trade Knies for a UFA rental, so not sure what your comment is addressing.

Whatever adjective you want to use, he's among one of the more sought after prospects from the Leafs for a reason. He has a rare combo of size and skill that teams dream of being able to draft. If you don't consider him a blue chip prospect, there are very little or close to zero blue chip prospects in the league by your standards.

My comment was not directed at anyone in particular, but I've seen him used in trades that involve a rental through the media and here, mainly with the tag that he's not guaranteed to be anything good.

 

[aingefan]

This is patently absurd to me, sorry…



The green farm hands aren’t going to provide the depth we need against a Boston, come on.

Wasn’t there that playoff year where the leafs iced a kid line that was pretty effective?
Just a history question.

Agreed. However, it could show Dubas he's free to move a Kerfoot/Engvall ina bigger splash..and still have kids ready to fill some of those spots. I think it's about seeing who he can move, not necessarily if it's good enough as is.

Or showcasing kids.

 

[X66]

Wasn’t there that playoff year where the leafs iced a kid line that was pretty effective?
Just a history question.

You MIGHT be thinking of the "Sky Line" back in the Quinn days, where we had Antropov and Ponikarovsky being centered by Nieuwendyk

 

[kb]

He's a blue chip future asset that will likely have an impact in the next year or so. People always go to one extreme to the other to fit their narrative. "He's not a savior!" "He's going to be a top line player when he signs!"

This team isn't in the Burke and JFJ model of making trades with complete disregard to any foresight... as "exciting" as it was.

This team just doesn't want to trade that kind of asset for a 3 month player. How is that crazy? Are we not among the best teams in the league already?

This team should definitely be aggressive to add a good player at the deadline (or 2), but those are typically not by adding your blue chip prospect that is fairly close to NHL ready among analysts opinions.

Even in most deals for big name players, the acquiring team's top prospect is rarely involved. The Sharks kept Meier out of the Karlsson deal, the Eichel deal (Krebs was debatable), etc.

His skillset is required, even if he doesn't set the league on fire today and tops out at 40-50 points. I mean....look at all the people coveting Crouse, and Knies arguably is a very similar player with higher IQ and upside.

 

[Mess]

Or conversely why it hasn’t improved with them? Good questions

I asked that same question to a U of Minn fan that posted on our board and gets to see him in person. His response was in the other Matthew Knies thread.

When you add a pair of 1st round NHL picks including Cooley #3 OA in 2022 draft who lead the team in scoring why has Knies stats not improved?

2022-23

2021-22

As an 18 year old he had 30 points in 30 games and this year with all the added offensive talent at age 19 he has 30 points in 28 games.

 

[aingefan]

Guys wanting Henrique, imagine your contender trades for Bozak in 17-18.

Not a bad player, but boring.

Ok by me.

 

[ULF_55]

I asked that same question to a U of Minn fan that posted on our board and gets to see him in person. His response was in the other Matthew Knies thread.

When you add a pair of 1st round NHL picks including Cooley #3 OA in 2022 draft who lead the team in scoring why has Knies stats not improved?

2022-23

View attachment 648039

2021-22

View attachment 648040

As an 18 year old he had 30 points in 30 games and this year with all the added offensive talent at age 19 he has 30 points in 28 games.

His GPG has increased, I believe from about .4545 to .607.

If we recall, there was a viewing experience with Cooley and Knies at the WJC? Knies was being used as a net front presence, and wasn't getting a lot of puck.

Many here didn't think Cooley - Knies was a good combination.

Additionally, from what has been written lately Leafs gave Knies areas to work on, and I believe the one mentioned was shooting.

 

[Mess]

Wonder how Steeves would have done as a 22 year old in the NCAA?
He was in the AHL at 21.
Only played 3 years in the NCAA, interesting.

Alex Steeves was undrafted and passed over in 3 entry drafts and once he turned 20 ineligible to be drafted thereafter. There are hundreds of Alex Steeves like examples over the years. Simply a free lottery ticket and dart through as a player who showed some promise in college, but not enough to be worthy of being drafted. There is an NCAA undrafted draft class that hits the UFA market each summer, historically only a very small percentage ever go on to become anything at the NHL level.

There was no value to stay in school if you want to pursue a professional hockey career. So when some team like Toronto comes along and offers a "free wallet" a 3 year ELC contract to turn pro you take it for that opportunity.

When Toronto aggressively approaches the trade deadline and deals away many of its draft picks making limited selections then signing players like Steeves to help fill organizational holes makes sense particularly at the AHL level.

PS. Zach Hyman could have turned pro earlier also, he kept refusing to sign with Florida, however he remained unsigned because of a entry draft loophole that would have made him a UFA and allowed to sign with any team and not just Florida the one that drafted him, and he wanted to come home to Toronto, so they acquired his rights to sign him early, as a highly coveted Hobey Baker runner up.

 

[Fogelhund]

Knies…. He’s a big bodied, complimentary player, good at scoring, particularly in close, good in transition, good in the corners. Not necessarily a play driver.

He’s basically what we need to balance out our top six… though he may need more time to get there.

Playing with Cooley, as talented as he is, hasn’t been a positive most of the season. Cooley is a play driver, and a good one, but those who maybe only saw him at the summer juniors with Knies, noted he was very selfish with the puck. That was true, and Knies wasn’t good with him at the juniors, or even very early on. To Cooley’s credit, he’s learned to use his team mates more, and they’ve all become more effective. Knies is something like 5 goals and an assist in the last five games.

He’s not a Marner, or a Nylander, or a Caufield… he’s Knies. A bigger, more physical, more talented Hyman. That’s not saying he’s going to put up more points, Hyman has a heart of gold, great drive and intelligence. It’s TBD if Knies can do the same, but he’s blessed with a better tool box. He’s the type of player we need in our roster.

 

[ULF_55]

Steeves was undrafted and passed over in 3 entry drafts and once he turned 20 ineligible to be drafted thereafter.

There was no value to stay in school if you want to pursue a professional hockey career.

So when some team like Toronto comes along and offers a "free wallet" a 3 year ELC contract to turn pro you take it.

PS. Zach Hyman could have turned pro earlier also, he kept refusing to sign with Florida, however he remained unsigned because of a entry draft loophole that would have made him a UFA and allowed to sign with any team and not just Florida the one that drafted him, and he wanted to come home to Toronto, so they acquired his rights to sign him, as a highly coveted Hobey baker runner up.

Have you looked at Hyman's line-up in college.

That's 6 good to excellent NHL players.
What a laugh. Getting to play with those players before the NHL.
A dream scenario.

 

[aingefan]

You MIGHT be thinking of the "Sky Line" back in the Quinn days, where we had Antropov and Ponikarovsky being centered by Nieuwendyk

Maybe, I loved those two guys.

‘Black aces’ rings a bell, but I can’t recall the players or even if the name is right.

 

[Dreakmur]

Matthew Knies is certainly in that McAvoy, Caufield territory. He is absolutely dominant at the NCAA level.

Surprised and disappointed to see those battle metrics… below average at winning puck battles in NCAA?

 

[kb]

Knies…. He’s a big bodied, complimentary player, good at scoring, particularly in close, good in transition, good in the corners. Not necessarily a play driver.

He’s basically what we need to balance out our top six… though he may need more time to get there.

Playing with Cooley, as talented as he is, hasn’t been a positive most of the season. Cooley is a play driver, and a good one, but those who maybe only saw him at the summer juniors with Knies, noted he was very selfish with the puck. That was true, and Knies wasn’t good with him at the juniors, or even very early on. To Cooley’s credit, he’s learned to use his team mates more, and they’ve all become more effective. Knies is something like 5 goals and an assist in the last five games.

He’s not a Marner, or a Nylander, or a Caufield… he’s Knies. A bigger, more physical, more talented Hyman. That’s not saying he’s going to put up more points, Hyman has a heart of gold, great drive and intelligence. It’s TBD if Knies can do the same, but he’s blessed with a better tool box. He’s the type of player we need in our roster.

Or think a younger Crouse, who many are coveting. Except Knies arguably has a better skillset and IQ. It took Crouse a while to get there, it took a player like Tage Thompson a while too.

Bigger players seem to need a bit more time to adjust to their bodies and the pro game, which is often happening simultaneously.

 

[kb]

Maybe, I loved those two guys.

‘Black aces’ rings a bell, but I can’t recall the players or even if the name is right.

How about the kid line of Rocky Saganiuk, Laurie Boschman, and John Anderson?

 

[ULF_55]

How about the kid line of Rocky Saganiuk, Laurie Boschman, and John Anderson?

The Hound Line Clark/Courtnall/Leeman​

 

[kb]

The Hound Line Clark/Courtnall/Leeman​

So many options.

Wasn't there another one with Damphousse and Marois too?

 

[LeafSteel]

The Crazy Bastards Line

Corson-Tucker-Roberts

Maaaaaaaan, imagine that line on our team now?

 

[thusk]

Matthew Knies is certainly in that McAvoy, Caufield territory. He is absolutely dominant at the NCAA level.

Having a big body giving you a pretty high advantage in OHL/NCAA... but we talk about NHL... there a huge step between ncaa and NHL. his body alone will not be enought to outplay NHL regular player contrairly to NCAA...

Steeves or abrusseze at the same age was looking great in NCAA, but still ahlers...ps im not telling hes not a better prospect... just giving you a comparaison than not because you looking great in NCAA than you will look good as soon you will play in NHL...

 

[Mess]

Have you looked at Hyman's line-up in college.

That's 6 good to excellent NHL players.
What a laugh. Getting to play with those players before the NHL.
A dream scenario.

No question the Hyman & Larkin dynamic duo set the NCAA on fire during their time.

That is why I'm hoping Matthew Knies is following in the Hyman shoes and our next power forward to replace him in our top 6.

Hyman, Larkin Selected as All-Americans

University of Michigan ice hockey senior forward Zach Hyman, the Big Ten scoring champion and Hobey Baker Award finalist, was named to the first team on the CCM Hockey All-American West Team, while Big Ten Freshman of the Year Dylan Larkin was a second team selection, the American Hockey Coaches Association announced Friday (April 10).

"It's pretty humbling and it's a huge honor," Hyman said. "So many different players from Michigan have won -- and to be going up on that All-America wall outside of our locker room and to be associated with all of those great players is incredible. It was one of my goals coming into college and I'm really excited and honored to be recognized."

"I think it's a great honor," Larkin said. "You see all of the names on the wall where we warmup every day, and it means a lot, especially with the players in college hockey this year."

Hyman finished the season with a team-leading 17 multiple-point games and had a Big Ten-leading 54 points (22G, 32A). An All-Big Ten first team selection, Hyman was fourth in the nation with a scoring average of 1.46 points/game. He was the first U-M player to top 50 points in a single season since Carl Hagelin, who had 50 points (19G, 31A) in 2009-10 and the first U-M player to reach 20 goals since Caporusso had 21 goals in 2009-10. Michigan was 15-2-0 when Hyman scored a goal this season, and he led the Big Ten at +24.

One of the top student-athletes in college hockey, Hyman, a three-time Big Ten All-Academic selection and Big Ten Distinguished Scholar, was also a finalist for the Wooden Citizenship Cup, a national award for character and leadership shown on and off the field. A published author of several children's books, Hyman has made several school visits in his native Ontario to promote literacy by reading to underprivileged students.

Hyman, Larkin Selected as All-Americans - University of Michigan Athletics

April 10, 2015 ANN ARBOR, Mich. -- University of Michigan ice hockey senior forward Zach Hyman , the Big Ten scoring champion and Hobey Baker Award finalist,...

mgoblue.com

 

[TheDoldrums]

Steeves or abrusseze at the same age was looking great in NCAA, but still ahlers...

Abruzzese was 21 when he played his first college game. Steeves was not this good at 20 and he's not a power forward like Knies.

People out here working real hard to downplay our top prospect lol

 

[Morgs]

I don't think we should be the team to claim him.. .but interesting potential move...

""

I'd claim him without hesitation. How 25+ other teams would let him pass before us would be the most unrealistic part.

 

[nuck]

I'd claim him without hesitation. How 25+ other teams would let him pass before us would be the most unrealistic part.

$3M cap hit would kind of make him the Leafs deadline deal. He is interesting next summer around $1.5M but not so much now.

 

[TMLAM34]

Detroit would make a pretty good trading partner. Not sure what it would cost but the additions of Tyler Bertuzzi and Michael Rasmussen would be great.

Bunting - Matthews - Marner
Bertuzzi - Tavares - Nylander
Knies - Rasmussen - Jarnkrok
Engvall - Kampf - Holmberg
Aston Reese

Pretty deep forward group.

 

[Judas Tavares]

The funniest thing is to see people panik to see leafs trying their young AHLer like steeves who cant be even closer to be NHL ready because they tought they are too weak for playoff matchup but at the same time... thing knies who came from NCAA will come in and being able to have a impact against boston or tampa... its just hilarious. Knies is a good prospect but hes not an elite one like makar or mcavoy or caufield or whatever who was able to start at the end of season/playoff and get an impact.

The reality is player like steeves, anderson, SDA, abrusseze, mcmann are probably closer to be NHL ready than knies right now but for the only fact knies is big, OMG he become instantly just so good

I agree a bit here. I think people will only put trust into whoever is hyped up and then fear what they aren't familiar with.

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I think ROR comes with a lot of risk. So I am hesitant. But part of me feels even with injury risk, age, contract and career progression... He is the right fit. I just feel that killer instinct/experience factor will come into play. Especially with a team that seems to struggle with that. The team tends to beat themselves as much as the other teams beat them. I really think ROR would help with that.

Would hate to give up a 1st but it may be the cost of doing business... Though Tarasenko's price in the end seemed low when you take into account the whole trade. Like I'd feel like a 2nd + Niemela should do it, even if I'd hate to give up Niemela. But with no 2023 2nd, it wouldn't work, someone else would pay the higher price.

Lol, it seems just like posturing to the media so that he doesn’t show his hand. They’re clearly shopping around to see what’s available but they’re in no duress to make a move right now.

Telling the media you’re actively looking for help doesn’t help any leverage.

They been doing this for nearly all season, testing their depth. Anderson, Homberg, Robertson, Mete, Kral, and now Steeves/Woll getting looks when the opportunities come.

Part of it could also be a showcase for NHL teams as well to see if that ups his value as a trade chip. I don’t know if he’s waiver exempt next year which is a factor.

When Burke was here and he showed his hand, it pissed people off and he was called him a blow hard. When Dubas doesn't give a straight answer aka doesn't show his hand, people get pissed off cause they want to hear exactly what he will do and it better fit what they want.

So alas it is a lose-lose situation either way.

Steeves is 2nd. leading scorer on Marlies, is under contract next year, and then is RFA.

He's a Leafs asset.

Probably will get 10 minutes in a game or two.

Getting worked up about this?

Common Sense. Trades

Posters complain that the team drafts and develops terribly, but the second the team wants to give someone a chance to develop, posters have their minds made up that the player/ prospect (unless his name is Knies) is useless. And since those players are useless, Dubas needs to go out and spend picks and prospects to upgrade the team. Then the posters get upset the next year when there are no picks/prospects developed. It's a strange circle to be honest.

 

[mydnyte]

I asked that same question to a U of Minn fan that posted on our board and gets to see him in person. His response was in the other Matthew Knies thread.

When you add a pair of 1st round NHL picks including Cooley #3 OA in 2022 draft who lead the team in scoring why has Knies stats not improved?

2022-23

View attachment 648039

2021-22

View attachment 648040

As an 18 year old he had 30 points in 30 games and this year with all the added offensive talent at age 19 he has 30 points in 28 games.

Stats dont mean you have not improved as a 'player'
you often get less touches when you play with better players, and your 'stats' save +/- may not be as high as when you were a go to guy.