Trades and Free Agency - 2022/2023 Trade Deadline Edition

[dubplatepressure]

Saying Abruzzese looked great at the same age isn't a difference of opinion, it's just factually incorrect.

I mean technically yes it is exactly a difference of two opinions….

 

[thusk]

Abruzzese was 21 when he played his first college game. Steeves was not this good at 20 and he's not a power forward like Knies.

People out here working real hard to downplay our top prospect lol

Its nothing about downgrade prospect but having a realistic projection... thats taking time to develop player... playing against a 6'0 180 D in NCAA vs 6'7 244 hedman, 6'5/6'4 224 cernak/foote... its not the same thing

Steeves was top points scorer of his team at 20, just like that...

 

[Americanadian]

Considering he currently sits in 15th spot in NHL scoring overall after 50 games.

Just goes to show what hard work and dedication and effort can take you, when others don't believe you have the talent to succeed.

When you look down that list of players in his senior year at Michigan he will probably have the best career season out of any of them.

 

[kb]

Not exactly sure why a 20 year old prospect who is a bigger player (they typically take longer to develop) and putting up excellent numbers is a dime a dozen prospect that is being overvalued.

Having said that, everyone is entitled to their opinion, no matter how far off base it is based on current production and projection.

 

[PromisedLand]

Plot thickens

 

[dubplatepressure]

Not exactly sure why a 20 year old prospect who is a bigger player (they typically take longer to develop) and putting up excellent numbers is a dime a dozen prospect that is being overvalued.

Having said that, everyone is entitled to their opinion, no matter how far off base it is based on current production and projection.

Show me one post where someone said Knies is a dime a dozen prospect.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Again - I think I'm a realist. I look at Knies and I think he's a very good prospect - but nothing more. He benefits from playing with Cooley - the former 3rd OA pick in the draft - who's exceptionally talented, and Snuggarud, who's also very skilled. Both former 1sts, both vastly out producing him.

So why did he go ppg last year as a rookie without either of those guys?

 

[Magic Man]

Plot thickens

You have had several years to build up to this moment. Now, you're at the deadline and you expect everyone to wait around for you and miss out on others just to see if you will become available. Make better decisions Patrick Kane.

 

[Budz]

I don’t want Kane in any way shape or form.

 

[dubplatepressure]

So why did he go ppg last year as a rookie without either of those guys?

Already responded to this - this is a good question, as is the immediate follow up which would be to question why his production hasn’t increased with the quality of teammates this year.

 

[TheDoldrums]

I mean technically yes it is exactly a difference of two opinions….

Abruzzese wasn't playing college at the same age. That's a fact, not an opinion. You really do not need to die on this hill.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

Comtois could use a change of scenery but he has a lot of Ritchie vibes. Jones is not very good at all.

Jones isn’t terrible. He’s a 4th line bang and crash guy on this team.

 

[TMLAM34]

Patrick Kane’s comment made me laugh. What an idiot. Did he think teams were going to just sit and wait to see if he’s even willing to be traded? Lol

 

[VanW27]

Ok, I’m lazy. I havent just said that, that’s just part of one point I’ve made - that being that despite substantially better linemates this year we haven’t seen much (if any) improvement in his output. When comparing his production to other blue chip prospects who emerged from NCAA to stardom they usually seem to be different in that they have 1) higher ppg output and 2) better YOY offensive growth. You could argue that it’s lazy to just form opinions based on offensive output but it’s about all I have to go by as I’m not watching games. There were some encouraging stats someone posted earlier that have him, Cooley, and Snuggarud on offensive adv stats through the first 15 games, but I’d love to see a larger sample size of those and compare them to same games / sample last year. I don’t have that, and I’m guessing you don’t either. I still think he’s a great prospect, not just blue chip. So high ceiling but a lower floor. That’s really all. And I don’t expect him to have an impact this year.

A simple and obvious answer here - he doesn't have substantially better linemates this year.

While certainly better prospects and more 'talented' 23 year old Ben Meyers is an as good or better NCAA player than 18YO Cooley/Snuggerud.

 

[TMLAM34]

Panarin-Zibanejad-Tarasenko
Kreider-Trocheck-Kravtsov
Lafrenière-Chytil-Kakko
Vesey-Goodrow-Gauthier

Lindgren-Fox
Miller-Trouba
Mikkola-Schneider

Shesterkin - Halak

That’s a f***ing deep lineup…

 

[SprDaVE]

Jones isn’t terrible. He’s a 4th line bang and crash guy on this team.

He's pretty much Dryden Hunt with a tiny bit more offence, which isn't saying much. He's very replaceable and forgettable.

The team is looking at improving. Jones doesn't improve anything.

 

[dubplatepressure]

Abruzzese wasn't playing college at the same age. That's a fact, not an opinion. You really do not need to die on this hill.

You are right - this is a fact. The opinions resulting from subjectively comparing two players is not a fact. Im not dying on a hill - there is no hill.

A simple and obvious answer here - he doesn't have substantially better linemates this year.

While certainly better prospects and more 'talented' 23 year old Ben Meyers is an as good or better NCAA player than 18YO Cooley/Snuggerud.

Ok, fair. So the assumption then is that he hasn’t really shown much developmentally that has translated to offensive output. Take that for whatever it is worth I guess.

 

[SprDaVE]

 

[kb]

With the rumours of him playing through a hip injury, I steer clear if they want any significant assets.

 

[SprDaVE]

With the rumours of him playing through a hip injury, I steer clear if they want any significant assets.

 

[SprDaVE]

Kane would give the Leafs a huge offensive boost. Obviously he's not 2018 Patrick Kane but he could have Phil Kessel (Pittsburgh) level of value to the Leafs. He still got 26 goals and 92 points last season.

The big problem, and the main problem, is the cap space. Even at 75%, it's rough to fit.

If the Leafs can get him to a similar price that they paid to get Giordano, it would be interesting.

 

[Sypher04]

Kane would give the Leafs a huge offensive boost. Obviously he's not 2018 Patrick Kane but he could have Phil Kessel (Pittsburgh) level of value to the Leafs. He still got 26 goals and 92 points last season.

The big problem, and the main problem, is the cap space. Even at 75%, it's rough to fit.

If the Leafs can get him to a similar price that they paid to get Giordano, it would be interesting.

I was on the Kane bandwagon early this season, but the injury concerns, mixed with his drop in production, mixed with his age, mixed with the cost to acquire. I just don’t see it.

Even if he’s not a pure rental, and we can re-sign him, I don’t know what to think about his longevity of effectiveness from here

While it has worked out with Gio, I wouldn’t bet on getting that lucky twice. And the risk is way higher, because even IF he commits to staying with us, he’s not doing it for anything approaching the sweetheart $800k Gio gave us

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Already responded to this - this is a good question, as is the immediate follow up which would be to question why his production hasn’t increased with the quality of teammates this year.

I haven't watched any gophers games this year but maybe he is the grunt that is creating space for the other 2 to do their thing? That would be my guess seeing as that seemed to be the case in the summer when Knies was playing with Cooley for team USA.

I think it's encouraging that he was creating his own offense last year without those guys and his advanced stats in pretty well every category are a good sign of being able to make plays.

We don't exactly need him to be a play driver on the Leafs. We have 4 other guys that can do that. We need him to be that big, physical, complimentary player to create that space for one of our top 2 lines. He's a unique prospect these days. Even if he only ends up being a 3rd liner, we should be happy with a big, physical power forward with good hands and a heavy shot as a depth scorer.

 

[Peace Frog]

I wonder if Kane will give consideration to New Jersey, just to try and stick it to the Rangers?

If so, that might eliminate a major competitor for the Meier sweepstakes… if Dubas is even going after him in the first place.

 

[SprDaVE]