Trades and Free Agency - 2022/2023 Trade Deadline Edition

[ACC1224]

Agree 100%.

Different opinions is what makes discussion board interesting.

I’d prefer honest opinions instead of the predictable love everything/hate everything junk that gets posted.

 

[Gabriel426]

I’d prefer honest opinions instead of the predictable love everything/hate everything junk that gets posted.

Maybe that’s their honest opinions, lol.

I know what you mean.

 

[ULF_55]

I’d prefer honest opinions instead of the predictable love everything/hate everything junk that gets posted.

It is a reflection of society, with our own Karens and Kens.

But I'm sure even they'd like to discuss Common Trades.

 

[BertCorbeau]

I agree 100%

Youth and inexperience on defense against the NHL's best teams in the playoffs is not the way to hope for long-term success. Its backasswards as you say.

Sandin (5), Liljegren (2) and Timmons (12) have a combined 19 playoff games experience.

People talk about the pressure and intensity of playoff hockey adds to the equation,

Tampa Bay's defense has essentially 2 Cups and 1 SCF under their belts in the last 3 seasons.

Leafs road to the Cup through TB and Boston is not going to be easy.

But the only way for youth to get experience is to actually play them. Liljegren is the best example of a player who has done everything, development wise, to earn a regular role in the playoffs and start getting those tougher minutes.

I'd argue not giving him more leash last year and playing other "vets with experience" was one of the factors that led to the series loss.

Sandin has shown a lot of promise for a lot of this season, including stepped up with Rielly out .. But I would be watching how he can handle the pace of playoff hockey and the physicality before constantly feeding him big minutes.

Timmins has less than 100 NHL games .. I agree he shouldn't be a regular, especially because his warts/inexperience is becoming more noticeable as the season has gone on. He may get a game, maybe two, but that's it.

Making trades just to make sure there is enough "playoff experience" on the roster is a flawed philosophy. Particularly when you look at the Leafs having some vets like Gio and Brodie, as well as Rielly, who have a lot of playoff experience.

Holl does as well but I would say he's the biggest area the Leafs could upgrade on the back end.

 

[Gabriel426]

But the only way for youth to get experience is to actually play them. Liljegren is the best example of a player who has done everything, development wise, to earn a regular role in the playoffs and start getting those tougher minutes.

I'd argue not giving him more leash last year and playing other "vets with experience" was one of the factors that led to the series loss.

Sandin has shown a lot of promise for a lot of this season, including stepped up with Rielly out .. But I would be watching how he can handle the pace of playoff hockey and the physicality before constantly feeding him big minutes.

Timmins has less than 100 NHL games .. I agree he shouldn't be a regular, especially because his warts/inexperience is becoming more noticeable as the season has gone on. He may get a game, maybe two, but that's it.

Making trades just to make sure there is enough "playoff experience" on the roster is a flawed philosophy. Particularly when you look at the Leafs having some vets like Gio and Brodie, as well as Rielly, who have a lot of playoff experience.

Holl does as well but I would say he's the biggest area the Leafs could upgrade on the back end.

I think we need one good vet RD that PK to bump Holl out of the line up and pair with Sandin.
Let TJ back with Reilly, Gio with Lilly and that RD with Sandin.

 

[Buds17]

But being "right" about Dermott being a 3rd pairing dman at best doesn't really mean that he's right to force him out of the lineup for no good reason to discourage Dubas from making a trade. The defense was a mess at the time and Dermott was hardly the worst guy there. He didn't end up amounting to much due to injuries. Being "right" about Hyman developing into a great player doesn't magically chance the level of player Hyman was in his first year when he was dragging down the first line. Being "right" that Matthews and Marner don't always work together doesn't mean he was right to never try them together.

It's not just about evaluating a player's worthiness, it's about knowing how to get through to them and maximize their potential. He was terrible at that

It seems tough for me to believe that what he didn't do could have worked out for the better since such outcomes aren't exactly binary. We can only look to what he did do (that of which ended up falling short of the desired mark). By that, I can agree about him not being good enough in maximizing the potential of the team.

 

[Menzinger]

 

[BertCorbeau]

I think we need one good vet RD that PK to bump Holl out of the line up and pair with Sandin.
Let TJ back with Reilly, Gio with Lilly and that RD with Sandin.

Agreed .. Jensen is that guy for me personally.

 

[Mess]

Anyone believing Murray will be healthy to carry the team through 4 rounds isn’t being honest with themselves. More wishful thinking than anything.
Sure it could happen but no one would bet on it.

The always injured and unreliable Murray really seems to define "optimism" vs "realism" when it comes to playoff expectations among Leafs fan base. Perhaps a little of that can be chalked up to "desperation" as it been 18 long suffering years since Leafs won a playoff series, so any hope is still good hope at this point.

Even the last time the Pens won the Cup in 2016-17, Murray was the backup goalie to MA Fleury and played less games and delivered less wins.

So if one ignores his play and injury history in the last 6 season 2017-18 to 2022-23 then its those 11 post season starts back in 2017 as a playoff tandem that "hope" is clinging on to. IMO

Samsonov has been carrying the Leafs this year, and EVEN IF Murray were available I'm not sure Leafs management would name him the playoff starter based on 6 years ago.

Absolutely, until its made official that Murray is unavailable come playoff time it could still happen, as its not over until its officially over, but like you I'm counting on it.

 

[BertCorbeau]

The always injured and unreliable Murray really seems to define "optimism" vs "realism" when it comes to playoff expectations among Leafs fan base. Perhaps a little of that can be chalked up to "desperation" as it been 18 long suffering years since Leafs won a playoff series, so any hope is still good hope at this point.

Even the last time the Pens won the Cup in 2016-17, Murray was the backup goalie to MA Fleury and played less games and delivered less wins.

View attachment 656575

So if one ignores his play and injury history in the last 6 season 2017-18 to 2022-23 then its those 11 post season starts back in 2017 as a playoff tandem that "hope" is clinging on to. IMO

Samsonov has been carrying the Leafs this year, and EVEN IF Murray were available I'm not sure Leafs management would name him the playoff starter based on 6 years ago.

Absolutely, until its made official that Murray is unavailable come playoff time it could still happen, as its not over until its officially over, but like you I'm counting on it.

I think they've being highly cautious of Murray's health down the stretch given their position in the standings, as well as Samsonov's play and Woll's strong play on the Marlies.

You can't count of Murray carrying a team through the playoffs but you see here he still gave the Pens 11 strong games (7 wins) in that run. That's nearly 2 playoff series.

That's what the Leafs are looking for IMO. Some support so Sammy doesn't have to carry the whole load.

 

[The Podium]

The always injured and unreliable Murray really seems to define "optimism" vs "realism" when it comes to playoff expectations among Leafs fan base. Perhaps a little of that can be chalked up to "desperation" as it been 18 long suffering years since Leafs won a playoff series, so any hope is still good hope at this point.

Even the last time the Pens won the Cup in 2016-17, Murray was the backup goalie to MA Fleury and played less games and delivered less wins.

View attachment 656575

So if one ignores his play and injury history in the last 6 season 2017-18 to 2022-23 then its those 11 post season starts back in 2017 as a playoff tandem that "hope" is clinging on to. IMO

Samsonov has been carrying the Leafs this year, and EVEN IF Murray were available I'm not sure Leafs management would name him the playoff starter based on 6 years ago.

Absolutely, until its made official that Murray is unavailable come playoff time it could still happen, as its not over until its officially over, but like you I'm counting on it.

Everyone knows this. It’s just funny watching you pedal playoff experience and then ignoring the lack of experience for the Bruins goaltending.

 

[Menzinger]

Anyone believing Murray will be healthy to carry the team through 4 rounds isn’t being honest with themselves. More wishful thinking than anything.
Sure it could happen but no one would bet on it.

He won't have to do it all by himself - why the Leafs have been openly using a tandem since game.1.

We just need a goalie capable of winning those game 6 or 7s. Which we haven't had since Belfour

 

[The Podium]

I think they've being highly cautious of Murray's health down the stretch given their position in the standings, as well as Samsonov's play and Woll's strong play on the Marlies.

You can't count of Murray carrying a team through the playoffs but you see here he still gave the Pens 11 strong games (7 wins) in that run. That's nearly 2 playoff series.

That's what the Leafs are looking for IMO. Some support so Sammy doesn't have to carry the whole load.

Those 11 games were towards the end of the run too, he took the job from Fleury to close out the cup win.

 

[Gabriel426]

Those 11 games were towards the end of the run too, he took the job from Fleury to close out the cup win.

So what you are saying is that as long as we make it to the Conf Finals, Murray will turn into Godmode and win us the Cup.

Lol.

 

[SprDaVE]

Agreed .. Jensen is that guy for me personally.

Probably the only one available at probably a reasonable price that would actually be an upgrade. I think. Not a lot of quality on the market that fits a need.

I do worry about Sandin's health. Missed 3 games recently and has missed a lot of games in recent years with various injuries. I wonder how better Gavrikov would be on a better team? His underlying numbers look awful. I'm not sure I'd be willing to pay the absurd price to find out.

 

[ACC1224]

He won't have to do it all by himself - why the Leafs have been openly using a tandem since game.1.

We just need a goalie capable of winning those game 6 or 7s. Which we haven't had since Belfour

Hard to imagine that was almost 20 years ago.
Here’s to hoping they have that goalie, it’s hard to be optimistic after the past few decades.

 

[Mess]

I think we need one good vet RD that PK to bump Holl out of the line up and pair with Sandin.
Let TJ back with Reilly, Gio with Lilly and that RD with Sandin.

Who is going to be Leafs shutdown pairing vs Kucherov/Point/Stramkos and/or Boston's Perfection line?

I agree Leafs need to replace Muzzin in the top 4, a player that and play his type of game stylistically, physically and defensively.

 

[Martin Skoula]

He won't have to do it all by himself - why the Leafs have been openly using a tandem since game.1.

We just need a goalie capable of winning those game 6 or 7s. Which we haven't had since Belfour

As bad as Murray’s bad games have been with the injury inconsistency, his good games have been a different type than Samsonov/Campbell/Andersen gave us. I haven’t seen those guys just stand up and absolutely refuse to be scored on no matter what the other team threw at them. When Murray’s in the zone he looks like he’s a foot bigger than them, and the mentality isn’t “I hope I don’t get scored on, I hope we win”, it’s “I’m going to beat you, the only question is how”.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Trading for Jensen now would be cool

 

[McSnypsky]

I think they've being highly cautious of Murray's health down the stretch given their position in the standings, as well as Samsonov's play and Woll's strong play on the Marlies.

You can't count of Murray carrying a team through the playoffs but you see here he still gave the Pens 11 strong games (7 wins) in that run. That's nearly 2 playoff series.

That's what the Leafs are looking for IMO. Some support so Sammy doesn't have to carry the whole load.

We are forgetting that Samsonov has only played 7 playoff games and has only won one of them! I think if Murray is healthy they probably go with him either to start or give Sammy a short leash.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Uh, no.....

It's because in most cases it isn't actual Leaf fans saying this.

It's the backup accounts being logged into so they can get their jollies shitting/tr*lling on the Leafs.

All vetted, and encouraged.

Nonsense.

 

[Gabriel426]

Who is going to be Leafs shutdown pairing vs Kucherov/Point/Stramkos and/or Boston's Perfection line?

I agree Leafs need to replace Muzzin in the top 4, a player that and play his type of game stylistically, physically and defensively.

Gio and Lilly.
Or when closing out close games, have the new RD and Gio or TJ and Gio

 

[Skullz]

I agree with you guys. We need a RHD, and the only good one available for relatively cheap is Nick Jensen. Then we can have Holl, Timmins, and Benn as insurance, which is solid. Also can switch Brodie over to LHD if a LHD goes down and we don't want to insert Benn.

Could them do:
Reilly - Brodie
Gio - Lily
Sandin - Jensen

Benn - Holl
Timmins

Its not perfect, but we should have the firepower to be okay. I'd also like another physical guy for the 4th line. Not an enforcer type, but just another acciari/hathaway type who plays heavy, cycles the puck well, wears down the D. We have too many bottom 6 guys without a lot of snarl, e.g. Kerfoot, Engvall,

What would you all give for Jensen? This year's 3rd round pick plus a B prospect... something like Hirvonen? Or are we still really high on him?

 

[Leafed]

Waiving Benn leaves us with roughly 2 million in LTIR cap space. 1.1m including signing Knies

 

[Martin Skoula]

Trading for Jensen now would be cool

Would be a nice Holl replacement to have in your back pocket, figure we can probably get him at close to his current contract if he’s a good fit.

Rielly-Brodie
Sandin-Liljegren
Gio-Jensen
Timmins

Still feel like Sandin is most valuable to us as a trade chip for an upgrade on D though, I don’t know if we’re going to get 3-4 mil of value out of him when his deal needs to be re-upped.