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Trades and Free Agency - 2022/2023 Trade Deadline Edition

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You’re as only as good as your weakest links…for me it’s holl and engvall
Then inconstant goaltending . It’s going to be a big ask to win two rounds for this current team . They are there and have a chance but wouldn’t favourites imo
 
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pspot said:
You’re as only as good as your weakest links…for me it’s holl and engvall
Then inconstant goaltending . It’s going to be a big ask to win two rounds for this current team . They are there and have a chance but wouldn’t favourites imo
Click to expand...
I agree when Justin Holl is in your top 4 on Defense there is a problem particularly with youth and inex[experience in Sandin, Liljegren and Connor Timmins out the bottom.

When you look at some of those top teams they have goalies that are reliable and so Leafs will enter any series with the 2nd best goalie..

Samsonov has won only 1 single playoff game his entire career and his last 2 playoffs has been 1 win and 7 losses.

I'd love to see the Leafs add a top 4 Dman at least at the level of Muzzin both stylistically and in ability to push Holl into the bottom pairing or out of the lineup entirely. Also need a to likely consider a veteran goalie as well for depth to secure the goaltending position beyond Sammy.
 
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Mess said:
I agree when Justin Holl is in your top 4 on Defense there is a problem particularly with youth and inex[experience in Sandin, Liljegren and Connor Timmins out the bottom.

When you look at some of those top teams they have goalies that are reliable and so Leafs will enter any series with the 2nd best goalie..

Samsonov has won only 1 single playoff game his entire career and his last 2 playoffs has been 1 win and 7 losses.

I'd love to see the Leafs add a top 4 Dman at least at the level of Muzzin both stylistically and in ability to push Holl into the bottom pairing or out of the lineup entirely. Also need a to likely consider a veteran goalie as well for depth to secure the goaltending position beyond Sammy.
Click to expand...

Did you know Ullmark has 2 playoff games on his resume, both losses, both sub .900 save%

Swayman is 3 and 3 with a .906 playoff save %

Neither is more reliable or experienced than Samsonov
 
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Mess said:
I'd love to see the Leafs add a top 4 Dman at least at the level of Muzzin both stylistically and inability to push Holl into the bottom pairing or out of the lineup entirely. Also need a to likely consider a veteran goalie as well for depth to secure the goaltending position beyond Sammy.
Click to expand...

The veteran goaltender will be Matt Murray. Not sure where else they would put a goaltender?
 
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Dekes For Days said:
That's absolutely not true at all. He was wrong about the majority of the public things while he was here, and every day, there's a new story about something else he was wrong about.
The real question is how he lasted the 4 and a half years he did. Toxic, destructive, miserable to be around, insubordinate, and stubborn about things he has no clue about.
Not to mention an ego the size of a mountain.
Click to expand...

He was right about Hyman. He was right about dermott. He was right about sparks. He was right about keeping marner and Matthews on separate lines. He was right about keeping minutes down. His defensive starts to OT have led to success.

He was right about Leivo. He was right about the way the team played and competed. He was right the team needed more pushback.

How he chose to relay that message easily was his downfall. (I’m not in the room so I don’t know…. But the idea that grown men who punch each other in the face and hit each other with sticks can’t deal with a meanie is kind of silly). Regardless, he did lose the room. He shouldn’t have been brought back after Boston IMO.

He wasn’t perfect as a coach. I didn’t like his line matching ad nauseum. He lost the room. I have no problem with him being fired. But people deny that he is a knowledgeable coach and his general opinions on the game were out to lunch.
 
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The Podium said:
Did you know Ullmark has 2 playoff games on his resume, both loses, both sub .900 save%

Swayman is 3 and 3 with a .906 playoff save %

Neither is more reliable or experienced than Samsonov
Click to expand...
Do you know Ullmark is #1 OA in Save% and GAA and Wins on the President's running team?

1677339013840.png


1677339045808.png


1677339074800.png


It doesn't get much better than that for Boston who are on pace for a potential all time best season, currently on pace for 134 points and #1 in goals against.

It be hard pressed to say if the Leafs are playing Samsonov in a series against Boston that goaltending would favour Toronto, while playoff experience might be similar. :wg:

PS. Don't forget they just added an Stanley Cup experienced top 4 Dman in Orlov to already perhaps the strongest Dcore in the NHL, to help out their goaltending even more.
 
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Brobust said:
Girard has been victimized in the playoffs.

I think the Manson add was a big deal for them.
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Jack Johnson was added after the Girard injury, so putting in the bigger player was due to injury not choice.

I agree one (1) defenseman acquired by the deadline would be nice. And he doesn't have to be 220 lbs.

Leafs still have some lack of experience on defense, Timmins, Sandin, Liljegren are still the future, so getting a bonafide top 4 defender to rent for the current playoffs isn't an indictment of the talent already in the line-up.

Liljegren's size isn't an issue for me. I'd rather see him go one-on-one than the larger Holl. And for all his size Rielly isn't physical.
 
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Legion34 said:
He was right about Hyman. He was right about dermott. He was right about sparks. He was right about keeping marner and Matthews on separate lines. He was right about keeping minutes down. His defensive starts to OT have led to success.

He was right about Leivo. He was right about the way the team played and competed. He was right the team needed more pushback.

How he chose to relay that message easily was his downfall. (I’m not in the room so I don’t know…. But the idea that grown men who punch each other in the face and hit each other with sticks can’t deal with a meanie is kind of silly). Regardless, he did lose the room. He shouldn’t have been brought back after Boston IMO.

He wasn’t perfect as a coach. I didn’t like his line matching ad nauseum. He lost the room. I have no problem with him being fired. But people deny that he is a knowledgeable coach and his general opinions on the game were out to lunch.
Click to expand...
It's true Babcock was right this team will not win as it sits
And dubas still hssmt solved goalie issues

Mess said:
Do you know Ullmark is #1 OA in Save% and GAA and Wins on the President's running team?

View attachment 656482

View attachment 656483

View attachment 656484

It doesn't get much better than than for Boston who are on pace for a potential all time best season, currently on pace for 134 points.

It be hard pressed to say if the Leafs are playing Samsonov in a series against Boston that goaltending would favour Toronto :wg:
Click to expand...
It's different going all in to win the Cup. The leafs going all in to beat Tampa
 
Legion34 said:
He was right about Hyman. He was right about dermott. He was right about sparks. He was right about keeping marner and Matthews on separate lines. He was right about keeping minutes down. His defensive starts to OT have led to success.

He was right about Leivo. He was right about the way the team played and competed. He was right the team needed more pushback.

How he chose to relay that message easily was his downfall. (I’m not in the room so I don’t know…. But the idea that grown men who punch each other in the face and hit each other with sticks can’t deal with a meanie is kind of silly). Regardless, he did lose the room. He shouldn’t have been brought back after Boston IMO.

He wasn’t perfect as a coach. I didn’t like his line matching ad nauseum. He lost the room. I have no problem with him being fired. But people deny that he is a knowledgeable coach and his general opinions on the game were out to lunch.
Click to expand...
I agree that hindsight Babcock ended up being right more than wrong. The way he handled everything was wrong. I agree with you about he should have been fired after the Boston series. That Boston series the leafs had if Babcock wasn’t so set in his ways with line matching and playing Marleau so high in the line up.
 
Mess said:
Do you know Ullmark is #1 OA in Save% and GAA and Wins on the President's running team?

View attachment 656482

View attachment 656483

View attachment 656484

It doesn't get much better than that for Boston who are on pace for a potential all time best season, currently on pace for 134 points and #1 in goals against.

It be hard pressed to say if the Leafs are playing Samsonov in a series against Boston that goaltending would favour Toronto, while playoff experience might be similar. :wg:

PS. Don't forget they just added an Stanley Cup experienced top 4 Dman in Orlov to already perhaps the strongest Dcore in the NHL, to help out their goaltending even more.
Click to expand...

So playoff resumes matter for Samsonov but not Ullmark and Swayman?

How does Murray 2x Stanley cup champion fit in all this?

Leafs also added a Stanley Cup experienced, Conn Smythe and Selke winning top 6 C to perhaps the strongest defensive forward group to help out their goaltending even more.
 
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Legion34 said:
He was right about Hyman. He was right about dermott. He was right about sparks. He was right about keeping marner and Matthews on separate lines. He was right about keeping minutes down. His defensive starts to OT have led to success.

He was right about Leivo. He was right about the way the team played and competed. He was right the team needed more pushback.

How he chose to relay that message easily was his downfall. (I’m not in the room so I don’t know…. But the idea that grown men who punch each other in the face and hit each other with sticks can’t deal with a meanie is kind of silly). Regardless, he did lose the room. He shouldn’t have been brought back after Boston IMO.

He wasn’t perfect as a coach. I didn’t like his line matching ad nauseum. He lost the room. I have no problem with him being fired. But people deny that he is a knowledgeable coach and his general opinions on the game were out to lunch.
Click to expand...

He had success with a powerhouse Detroit team.

And you have to understand being a bully doesn't require you to be the biggest, and being a hockey player doesn't protect you from bullying when the person with power is immune to repercussion. There is enough in the media that proves that. There are professional coaches and management out of the game today because they didn't protect their players, who physically could have taken those coaches and management type in any physical altercation.
 
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hullsy47 said:
It's true Babcock was right this team will not win as it sits
And dubas still hssmt solved goalie issues

It's different going all in to win the Cup. The leafs going all in to beat Tampa
Click to expand...

Last person to solve the goaltender issue was ... Pat Quinn

JFj - fail
Fletcher - fail
Burke - fail
Nonis - fail
Lamoriello - fail
Dubas - unknown
 
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The Podium said:
So playoff resumes matter for Samsonov but not Ullmark and Swayman?

How does Murray 2x Stanley cup champion fit in all this?

Leafs also added a Stanley Cup experienced, Conn Smythe and Selke winning top 6 C to perhaps the strongest defensive forward group to help out their goaltending even more.
Click to expand...

You have to like Murray if he's healthy.

Even if he wasn't only partially responsible he's won as many Cups as Vasileskiy (sp?).
 
ULF_55 said:
Leafs can get it back when they deal "his" rights to the Coyotes for 10 picks, including 3rd. overall in 2022.
Click to expand...

Leafs remaining top draft pick bait for the next 3 years.

1677340646076.png


Leafs have only 5 currently surviving picks in the top 4 rounds in the top 120 for the next 3 upcoming drafts.

Leafs really could use a top 4 Dman like Jakob Chychrun. :wg:
 
Legion34 said:
He was right about Hyman. He was right about dermott. He was right about sparks. He was right about keeping marner and Matthews on separate lines. He was right about keeping minutes down. His defensive starts to OT have led to success. He was right about Leivo. He was right about the way the team played and competed. He was right the team needed more pushback.
Click to expand...
He wasn't right about Hyman. He forced him into a role that he wasn't ready for yet. Also can't forget the time he kept throwing an injured Hyman out on the PK for Boston to repeatedly score on him in the playoffs.

He wasn't right about Dermott. Threatening to sit Dermott if we got Jensen is beyond stupid. This was a defense with 38 year old Hainsey, a broken down Gardiner that could barely skate with chronic back issues, and Zaitsev.

What exactly do you think he thought about Sparks? His comments on Sparks after the decision to make him their backup:
"Sparks has been in the organization for a long time and has built himself a history. His camp wasn’t what got it done. It was the history and knowing the guy and understanding that you’ve got a long way to go, but a 25-year-old guy going in the right direction has a chance to get there."

He was completely wrong in his adamant refusal to ever put Matthews-Marner together. They are one of the deadliest combos together, perfect skillset compliments, and were our two best players. Together, they have created one of if not the best line in hockey. He didn't have to play them together all the time, but his stubborn refusal to utilize that asset in any situation likely cost us at least one playoff series.

He was not right about suppressing their minutes. All that did was hurt our team, create more tension between players and staff, and make their contract negotiations more contentious.

Defensive starts to OT? What are you even talking about?
Leivo? What are you even talking about?

There seems to be a lot of revisionist history around here of what Babcock thought.
Pushback? Babcock's literally the one that said "our toughness is our power play".
There is no issue with the way our team competes, and there never has been. There was a problem with the way our team played, but that was because Babcock didn't have an effective system, and he ineffectively utilized his roster. That got massively better as soon as Babcock left.
Legion34 said:
How he chose to relay that message easily was his downfall.
Click to expand...
Pretty important tool for a coach.
 
ToneDog said:
Fred-Ex was good his first 3 years as a Leaf if you do not count closeout games.
Click to expand...

I am also super in shape, if you don't count the extra 25 pounds I'm carrying around. lol

Yeah, goaltending hasn't really been a strong point for the Leafs. Goaltending will make or break you in the playoffs.
 
Mess said:
Leafs remaining top draft pick bait for the next 3 years.

View attachment 656494

Leafs have only 4 currently surviving picks in the top 4 rounds in the top 120 for the next 3 upcoming drafts.

Leafs really could use a top 4 Dman like Jakob Chychrun. :wg:
Click to expand...

Leafs kind of did it backwards during their Nonis / Lamoriello rebuild.
Defenders take longer to develop, but they went with forwards.
So their forwards are entering their prime, and their best futures on defense combine for a total of about 330 NHL games. Timmins, Liljegren, Sandin average age of 23.

Should be the other way around, but other than marner versus Werenski their picks were obvious.

Now perhaps rather than Nylander they could have gone with 4th. rounder Devon Toews? :sarcasm:

It's just the way the universe unfolded in this rebuild.

Future picks are sparse, but future picks aren't going to support Matthews, marner, Nylander or Tavares are they?

Ovechkin won his first Cup at age 31. Would a Capitals' fan go back in time and trade Ovechkin for another Cup over that period of time? For another 2 Cups? It is supposed to be about the Crest not the name on the back. This is where the tough choices come into play with regards to holding onto players?

Picks are capital, and for this team, and their current players those futures are meaningless.

They really might be at a situation where they have 2 playoffs with this core.

Optionally, they make everyone available and re-tool, with new players and Cap Space, and in order to do both, it is Matthews or marner that would have to be moved. They're the only 2 assets that could land both tools and space.
 
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