Trades and Free Agency - 2022/2023 Trade Deadline Edition

[al secord]

I am also super in shape, if you don't count the extra 25 pounds I'm carrying around. lol

Yeah, goaltending hasn't really been a strong point for the Leafs. Goaltending will make or break you in the playoffs.

I remember making this joke 25lbs ago.

 

[ULF_55]

Fred-Ex was good his first 3 years as a Leaf if you do not count closeout games.

He was okay.

James Reimer and he both have made it to the 7th. game with the Leafs.

 

[Buds17]

Leafs can get it back when they deal "his" rights to the Coyotes for 10 picks, including 3rd. overall in 2023.

Bunting has only improved as a player since. Think he agrees to return there though?

 

[LeafSteel]

Bunting has only improved as a player since. Think he agrees to return there though?

 

[hullsy47]

Last person to solve the goaltender issue was ... Pat Quinn

JFj - fail
Fletcher - fail
Burke - fail
Nonis - fail
Lamoriello - fail
Dubas - unknown

 

[Buds17]

He was okay.

James Reimer and he both have made it to the 7th. game with the Leafs.

One of them turned that trick more than once.

 

[hullsy47]

Loved pat Quinn. He wasn't wishy washy
Dubas trading picks to pay for his mistakes

 

[ULF_55]

We are getting close to Common Trades

These are assets I'd make available.

Picks, B level prospects, any Marlie, Kerfoot, Engvall, Robertson, Aston-Reese for a rental.
Picks, B level prospects any Marlie, Woll, Murray for rental goalie.
Picks, A level prospects, any Marlie, Kerfoot, Engvall, Robertson, Aston-Reese for a term employee.

 

[ULF_55]

One of them turned that trick more than once.

I think one of them would have made it to the 2nd. round if Bozak hadn't been injured ... they needed a face-off win in game 7.

 

[Mess]

So playoff resumes matter for Samsonov but not Ullmark and Swayman?

How does Murray 2x Stanley cup champion fit in all this?

Leafs also added a Stanley Cup experienced, Conn Smythe and Selke winning top 6 C to perhaps the strongest defensive forward group to help out their goaltending even more.

Jake Muzzin won 2 Cups with LA and he is LTIR also. Do you see that as value added experience also to Leafs current Dcore?

The number #1 ability is reliability. The playoffs are a grind and you play every 2nd day and potentially 4 rounds of 7 games max.

Seeing Murray has missed more regular season games then he has played and is currently on LTIR again.

Do we know When or IF Murray will be back and how many playoff games he will be playing or will this be Jake Muzzin like playoff experience sitting in the pressbox?

 

[ACC1224]

Jake Muzzin won 2 Cups with LA and he is LTIR also. Do you see that as value added experience also to Leafs current Dcore?

The number #1 ability is reliability. The playoffs are a grind and you play every 2nd day and potentially 4 rounds of 7 games max.

Seeing Murray has missed more regular season games then he has played and is currently on LTIR again.

Do we know When or IF Murray will be back and how many playoff games he will be playing or will this be Jake Muzzin like playoff experience sitting in the pressbox?

Anyone believing Murray will be healthy to carry the team through 4 rounds isn’t being honest with themselves. More wishful thinking than anything.
Sure it could happen but no one would bet on it.

 

[Stephen]

And people actually bought what he is writing.

How did he ever had a job with MLSE or any professional sports organizations.

I think his insights and branding are where they probably ought to be now. On the internet with the rest of our random thoughts.

 

[Gabriel426]

In a matter of ONE week, where the Leafs are 3-1. This board went from Woo, we got ROR and Acciari, we can do it and is as good as anyone, to we can’t beat anyone, look at what Bruins just got, we need this and that…..AM needs to be traded for picks, let’s retool…..
Wonder what next week will bring. Either why Kane, Dubas, we don’t need scoring or can’t believe Rangers got Kane, Kane will destroy us if we meet the Rangers…or how come we didn’t get a Dman or why this Dman, he is not someone that can help us beat TB or Bruins…

Anyone believing Murray will be healthy to carry the team through 4 rounds isn’t being honest with themselves. More wishful thinking than anything.
Sure it could happen but no one would bet on it.

I am beginning to think it might be like Pens winning their second Cup where Murray was a backup and ended up being the starter.

 

[kb]

Loved pat Quinn. He wasn't wishy washy
Dubas trading picks to pay for his mistakes

Uh, no.....

In a matter of ONE week, where the Leafs are 3-1. This board went from Woo, we got ROR and Acciari, we can do it and is as good as anyone, to we can’t beat anyone, look at what Bruins just got, we need this and that…..AM needs to be traded for picks, let’s retool…..
Wonder what next week will bring. Either why Kane, Dubas, we don’t need scoring or can’t believe Rangers got Kane, Kane will destroy us if we meet the Rangers…or how come we didn’t get a Dman or why this Dman, he is not someone that can help us beat TB or Bruins…

It's because in most cases it isn't actual Leaf fans saying this.

It's the backup accounts being logged into so they can get their jollies shitting/tr*lling on the Leafs.

All vetted, and encouraged.

 

[Gabriel426]

Uh, no.....

It's because it isn't actual Leaf fans saying this.

It's the backup accounts being logged into so they can get their joliies shitting on the Leafs.

All vetted and perfectly allowable

That would explain a lot and it is quite sad that people need to pretend to be someone else to talk smack about the Leafs.

 

[Mess]

Leafs kind of did it backwards during their Nonis / Lamoriello rebuild.
Defenders take longer to develop, but they went with forwards.
So their forwards are entering their prime, and their best futures on defense combine for a total of about 330 NHL games. Timmins, Liljegren, Sandin average age of 23.

Should be the other way around, but other than marner versus Werenski their picks were obvious.

They really might be at a situation where they have 2 playoffs with this core.

Optionally, they make everyone available and re-tool, with new players and Cap Space, and in order to do both, it is Matthews or marner that would have to be moved. They're the only 2 assets that could land both tools and space.

I agree 100%

Youth and inexperience on defense against the NHL's best teams in the playoffs is not the way to hope for long-term success. Its backasswards as you say.

Sandin (5), Liljegren (2) and Timmons (12) have a combined 19 playoff games experience.

People talk about the pressure and intensity of playoff hockey adds to the equation,

Tampa Bay's defense has essentially 2 Cups and 1 SCF under their belts in the last 3 seasons.

Leafs road to the Cup through TB and Boston is not going to be easy.

 

[Legion34]

He wasn't right about Hyman. He forced him into a role that he wasn't ready for yet. Also can't forget the time he kept throwing an injured Hyman out on the PK for Boston to repeatedly score on him in the playoffs.

He wasn't right about Dermott. Threatening to sit Dermott if we got Jensen is beyond stupid. This was a defense with 38 year old Hainsey, a broken down Gardiner that could barely skate with chronic back issues, and Zaitsev.

What exactly do you think he thought about Sparks? His comments on Sparks after the decision to make him their backup:
"Sparks has been in the organization for a long time and has built himself a history. His camp wasn’t what got it done. It was the history and knowing the guy and understanding that you’ve got a long way to go, but a 25-year-old guy going in the right direction has a chance to get there."

He was completely wrong in his adamant refusal to ever put Matthews-Marner together. They are one of the deadliest combos together, perfect skillset compliments, and were our two best players. Together, they have created one of if not the best line in hockey. He didn't have to play them together all the time, but his stubborn refusal to utilize that asset in any situation likely cost us at least one playoff series.

He was not right about suppressing their minutes. All that did was hurt our team, create more tension between players and staff, and make their contract negotiations more contentious.

Defensive starts to OT? What are you even talking about?
Leivo? What are you even talking about?

There seems to be a lot of revisionist history around here of what Babcock thought.
Pushback? Babcock's literally the one that said "our toughness is our power play".
There is no issue with the way our team competes, and there never has been. There was a problem with the way our team played, but that was because Babcock didn't have an effective system, and he ineffectively utilized his roster. That got massively better as soon as Babcock left.

Pretty important tool for a coach.

Babcock said “our toughness is our power play” because he knew that we didn’t have it.

Yes he lost the room and needed to be fired. He should not have been brought back.

But knowing the right answer how you communicate it are 2 completely different things. He did not communicate it properly, played stupid games that didn’t work on this generation and it was his time to go.

People conflating him losing the room and not understanding exactly what was going on with his team and how to win are just wrong.

Babcock knows hockey. He understood his players and his teams flaws.

He didnt understand how to talk to a new generation. He had to go. But many of his opinions and things that people lambasted him for have shown themselves time and again.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

He was right about Hyman. He was right about dermott. He was right about sparks. He was right about keeping marner and Matthews on separate lines. He was right about keeping minutes down. His defensive starts to OT have led to success.

He was right about Leivo. He was right about the way the team played and competed. He was right the team needed more pushback.

How he chose to relay that message easily was his downfall. (I’m not in the room so I don’t know…. But the idea that grown men who punch each other in the face and hit each other with sticks can’t deal with a meanie is kind of silly). Regardless, he did lose the room. He shouldn’t have been brought back after Boston IMO.

He wasn’t perfect as a coach. I didn’t like his line matching ad nauseum. He lost the room. I have no problem with him being fired. But people deny that he is a knowledgeable coach and his general opinions on the game were out to lunch.

A coach isn't some sort of pundit. Being right or wrong on individual issues has very little to do with their actual responsibility of winning hockey games

 

[Dekes For Days]

Jake Muzzin won 2 Cups with LA and he is LTIR also. Do you see that as value added experience also to Leafs current Dcore?

Muzzin has certainly helped bring cup-winning knowledge and veteran mentorship to the team over the years, but no, I believe he mentioned O'Rielly, the cup-winning, Smythe-winning, Selke-winning veteran they added.

Seeing Murray has missed more regular season games then he has played

Murray has not missed more games than he has played. He has been healthy for games and not started due to normal rotation, back-to-backs, and Samsonov playing really well.

Do we know When or IF Murray will be back and how many playoff games he will be playing

Murray is expected back next week. We don't know how many playoff games he will be playing yet. We wouldn't know how many playoff games the "veteran goaltending depth" you suggested acquiring would play either, but you seemed to value that before it was pointed out that we already had it in Murray.

 

[Gabriel426]

Babcock said “our toughness is our power play” because he knew that we didn’t have it.

Yes he lost the room and needed to be fired. He should not have been brought back.

But knowing the right answer how you communicate it are 2 completely different things. He did not communicate it properly, played stupid games that didn’t work on this generation and it was his time to go.

People conflating him losing the room and not understanding exactly what was going on with his team and how to win are just wrong.

Babcock knows hockey. He understood his players and his teams flaws.

He didnt understand how to talk to a new generation. He had to go. But many of his opinions and things that people lambasted him for have shown themselves time and again.

I guess they needed vets back then but just didn’t and couldn’t get the right ones.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Babcock said “our toughness is our power play” because he knew that we didn’t have it.
Yes he lost the room and needed to be fired. He should not have been brought back.
But knowing the right answer how you communicate it are 2 completely different things. He did not communicate it properly, played stupid games that didn’t work on this generation and it was his time to go.
People conflating him losing the room and not understanding exactly what was going on with his team and how to win are just wrong.
Babcock knows hockey. He understood his players and his teams flaws.
He didnt understand how to talk to a new generation. He had to go. But many of his opinions and things that people lambasted him for have shown themselves time and again.

You seem to be making a lot of unfounded assumptions.
He didn't know the right answer. That's why his system sucked.
He didn't understand his players and his team's flaws. That's why he created a toxic environment and repeatedly misused his roster in pretty much every way imaginable.
His opinions and his actions that people disliked have consistently shown to be wrong.

 

[Cleetus]

In a matter of ONE week, where the Leafs are 3-1. This board went from Woo, we got ROR and Acciari, we can do it and is as good as anyone, to we can’t beat anyone, look at what Bruins just got, we need this and that…..AM needs to be traded for picks, let’s retool…..
Wonder what next week will bring. Either why Kane, Dubas, we don’t need scoring or can’t believe Rangers got Kane, Kane will destroy us if we meet the Rangers…or how come we didn’t get a Dman or why this Dman, he is not someone that can help us beat TB or Bruins…

one thing for sure the Old HFboards is never dull lol, its what I love about this place see all kinds of opinions about the leafs... some are really good, and some well... they are interesting lmao!

 

[Buds17]

A coach isn't some sort of pundit. Being right or wrong on individual issues has very little to do with their actual responsibility of winning hockey games

Those were matters regarding players on his team (that would have helped with winning games). Obviously, not being able to win enough of the games that ultimately mattered most led to his firing as coach of the Leafs.

 

[Gabriel426]

one thing for sure the Old HFboards is never dull lol, its what I love about this place see all kinds of opinions about the leafs... some are really good, and some well... they are interesting lmao!

Agree 100%.

Different opinions is what makes discussion board interesting.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Those were matters regarding players on his team (that would have helped with winning games). Obviously, not being able to win enough of the games that ultimately mattered led to his firing as coach of the Leafs.

But being "right" about Dermott being a 3rd pairing dman at best doesn't really mean that he's right to force him out of the lineup for no good reason to discourage Dubas from making a trade. The defense was a mess at the time and Dermott was hardly the worst guy there. He didn't end up amounting to much due to injuries. Being "right" about Hyman developing into a great player doesn't magically chance the level of player Hyman was in his first year when he was dragging down the first line. Being "right" that Matthews and Marner don't always work together doesn't mean he was right to never try them together.

It's not just about evaluating a player's worthiness, it's about knowing how to get through to them and maximize their potential. He was terrible at that