Trades and Free Agency - 2022/2023 Trade Deadline Edition

[weems]

Decent chance Meier is underrated and would be more talked about if he played in a bigger market or on the east coast.

Pretty cool stat to be leading in

 

[thusk]

Best of world would be

Add bertuzzi and a mccabe
/gavrikov type of d

Bunting-matthews-bertuzzi
Engval-Jt-marner
Kerfoot-jarnkrok-nylander
ZAR-kampf-holmberg

Mccabe-brodie (shutdown pair)
Rielly-liljegren ( offensive pair)
Gio-holl

You having 3 pretty great line who can provide high offensive and a balanced D

 

[ShameOnYouZidlicky]

Adam Henrique (50%) for 2nd + 3rd
Tyler Bertuzzi (50%) for 3rd + Prospect (Hirvonen?)
3rd + 5th from a Western Conference team for Alex Kerfoot

Bunting Matthews Nylander
Bertuzzi Tavares Marner
Knies Henrique Jarnkork
ZAR Kampf Engvall
Holmberg
Anderson
McMann

Rielly Brodie
Giordano Liljegren
Sandin Holl
TImmins
Benn

 

[pspot]

Meier is a legit PWF and Nylander level player imo

 

[namttebih]

If that's how you value sandin that's on you.

So you're willing to trade a top prospect who is injured but has shown glimpses of his potential in the ahl at a young age.
A top 4 dman on the leafs who are a top 5 team in the league and a contender and is young enough to be a great three or a solid two with further development
and a first round pick
A player who scored 50 pts last year with no PP time

FOR

An oft injured but top pairing dman who has missed 33% or 1 in 3 games the last 4.5 years
and Lawson crouse who has a career high of 52 pts in 60 odd games with PP time

How silly.

It's not how I view Sandin, it is who he is. At this point in his career, he doesn't have a full time spot in the top 4.

Robertson has basically 0 value at this point in time. I'm not saying that he won't be an NHL player, or have some success if he does. Right now his stock is extremely low.

The fact of the matter is that Kerfoot isn't on pace for anything close to 50 points this year. I would like to see what kind of totals Crouse - who is 3 years younger, could put up in our top 6. Kerfoot is a 15/40 guy who can pk. He's not without value in a vacuum, but in this instance you're shedding salary and a contract.

As far as Chychrun, he's played 80% of this season. Not ideal, I agree. I would have to assume that our medical team is better than Arizona's.

 

[ACC1224]

Meier is a legit PWF and Nylander level player imo

If you had to keep one, who do you pick?

 

[Dreakmur]

Chychrun is good at really obvious things like size and having a big shot, and Sandin is good at subtle things. I think Chychrun might explode if he can find his way onto a good team, but I don't think I'd give Sandin up to find out.

The way I see them offensively, Sandin is clearly a better passer and can make the players around him better by finding them in good spots. Chychrun is more of a scoring threat who can capitalize on plays that his teammates are making. With a team like the Leafs who already generate a lot of zone time and set up a lot of scoring chances, it's probably not a bad thing to add a guy who can finish plays. But just because he's better than Sandin doesn't mean he's a guy I would target to help my team score goals. He's still just a defenseman and you probably don't want him shooting anywhere near as much as he is with Arizona. It seems like it would be way easier to find a forward who can be a huge upgrade to the forwards than for Chychrun to be a big upgrade over Sandin

Again, this is not a real shot at the player (although I do think he's being somewhat overrated here - the Matt Stajan syndrome), but what the Leafs are paying for is the player he is AZ, which role/icetime/deployment will change/decline with the Leafs.

Overpaying like this is where the Leafs lose value. Their most immediate glaring need is bottom 6 scoring, not a 5% upgrade on D.

This isn’t a 5% upgrade on d though.

He’s our #1 as soon as he steps on the ice. That pushes Rielly down to #2, Brodie to #3, Liljegren and Giordano to 4/5 and Holl to 6. It’s a cascade of improvements across the whole defense core.

If you had to keep one, who do you pick?

Whichever one signed the reasonable contract extension first.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

This isn’t a 5% upgrade on d though.

He’s our #1 as soon as he steps on the ice. That pushes Rielly down to #2, Brodie to #3, Liljegren and Giordano to 4/5 and Holl to 6. It’s a cascade of improvements across the whole defense core.

True, but you would get a similar cascade of improvements if you upgrade the forwards. Right now you're looking at 5 top 6 forwards, and a disaster of a bottom 6. That's a much bigger area of concern than the defense. In the playoffs, things tighten up for everyone and the Leafs can defend better by committing infractions. They aren't going to magically find a way to get more offense, which has repeatedly been their undoing

 

[Martin Skoula]

This isn’t a 5% upgrade on d though.

He’s our #1 as soon as he steps on the ice. That pushes Rielly down to #2, Brodie to #3, Liljegren and Giordano to 4/5 and Holl to 6. It’s a cascade of improvements across the whole defense core.

What does that constitute? If he takes Rielly’s spot, Brodie is still playing on the top pair and not pushing down anyone on the right. Rielly and Gio get pushed down a slot and that’s it. It doesn’t matter what arbitrary numbers you assign them, Brodie is still doing the same thing whether you call him a 2 or a 3. The right side doesn’t have its minutes change, Gio probably doesn’t have his defensive minutes change, Rielly just becomes a fish out of water losing his soft offensive starts to a guy who can maybe perform slightly better in them.

You don’t want either or Chychrun or Rielly playing top shutdown minutes against Boston’s top line and there’s only so many soft minutes to go around.

 

[VanW27]

Because our pp is so successful as is?

No but he adds an element we lack even if it's a fear of a shot, Morgan Reilly is the most useless PP QB in the NHL if Chychrun isn't put in his place then it's a coaching problem not a player problem.

Our PP is an issue and it's been a disaster in the playoffs for the last number of seasons (so has the PK). And nobody bring up the regular season stats trying to say it's good. It's a powerplay where elite skill is able to override the ineptness of how ot runs - and when the intensity cranks up a level in the playoffs it gets exposed.

But Rielly is not the problem at all. The best evidence is the fact he's been taken off it multiple times and whenever that happens the PP gets notably worse:

Barrie - big point shot, QB on effective Avs PP for years, now QB on the top unit in the NHL. Complete disaster on the Leafs PP.

Sandin - bigish shot, crafty passer, replaced Rielly end of the North Division season and start of the playoffs and the PP put up a mind boggling 1 Goal For and 2 short handed goals against with Sandin running the 1st unit.

The issue is simple, everything is too slow. Every player on it wants to handle the puck whenever they get a touch, every pass is soft as butter and the main puck controller always wants to make one 'extra' pass or move or whatever. The PK has so much time to get in position and pressure the puck.

My girlfriend is an Avs fan and watching their PP run vs ours is like night and day. The passes are hard, the decisions are quick with one touch passes and one time shots.

 

[ACC1224]

Whichever one signed the reasonable contract extension first.

So one wouldn't be valued over the other?

 

[ULF_55]

So one wouldn't be valued over the other?

Whichever one that got the Conn Smythe.

 

[DarkKnight]

Drop the 1&2 and just go,
PP - Marner, Matthews, Nylander, Tavares, Chych

Come playoff time the 2 is an afterthought anyways. You run the horses.

 

[Hockey 4 Life]

We can trade for Meier and keep Matthews, Marner, and Nylander. In the short term it requires moving say Murray and Brodie to also keep Bunting but as soon as we can Ltir muzzin we could add another d for the year. The jump in cap after next season plus Muzzins cap allows us to extend Matthews, Nylander, Liljegren and Sandin. The year after JT comes off the books and covers Marners raise and we either resign him at 5 mill or go out and get a new 2c for 5 or 6 mill.

 

[ULF_55]

We can trade for Meier and keep Matthews, Marner, and Nylander. In the short term it requires moving say Murray and Brodie to also keep Bunting but as soon as we can Ltir muzzin we could add another d for the year. The jump in cap after next season plus Muzzins cap allows us to extend Matthews, Nylander, Liljegren and Sandin. The year after JT comes off the books and covers Marners raise and we either resign him at 5 mill or go out and get a new 2c for 5 or 6 mill.

Brodie's NTC seems pretty complete, until next year when it is 10 team?

 

[thusk]

Our PP is an issue and it's been a disaster in the playoffs for the last number of seasons (so has the PK). And nobody bring up the regular season stats trying to say it's good. It's a powerplay where elite skill is able to override the ineptness of how ot runs - and when the intensity cranks up a level in the playoffs it gets exposed.

But Rielly is not the problem at all. The best evidence is the fact he's been taken off it multiple times and whenever that happens the PP gets notably worse:

Barrie - big point shot, QB on effective Avs PP for years, now QB on the top unit in the NHL. Complete disaster on the Leafs PP.

Sandin - bigish shot, crafty passer, replaced Rielly end of the North Division season and start of the playoffs and the PP put up a mind boggling 1 Goal For and 2 short handed goals against with Sandin running the 1st unit.

The issue is simple, everything is too slow. Every player on it wants to handle the puck whenever they get a touch, every pass is soft as butter and the main puck controller always wants to make one 'extra' pass or move or whatever. The PK has so much time to get in position and pressure the puck.

My girlfriend is an Avs fan and watching their PP run vs ours is like night and day. The passes are hard, the decisions are quick with one touch passes and one time shots.

I dont think the problem is the leafs playing too slow, we tald about 1 of 5 best pp last 5 year...and when they are hot in pp, they playing really fast but i think its a result of high preassure on key player.. when preassure is high you starting to hesitate taking 1/2 second more to make decision and giving half of second for defensive player and goalie on every leafs play. Thats when you started to look too slow and thats the difference

 

[Buds17]

If you had to keep one, who do you pick?

I assume that Meier would have priority - to either be re-signed or traded away - since his contract expires first.

 

[Peace Frog]

I’m sure it’s been discussed, but what do people think the cost would be for McCabe?

 

[DarkKnight]

I would argue forward depth is the first priority, above defence.

 

[Morgs]

I like Sandin and I think he's pretty good but he's not Chychrun good to me. He skates so much faster and has overall better attributes, but Im not sure he's 1st round + other picks better on top of Sandin. It doesn't feel like good value at all. But Chychrun on a much better team I think would really be interesting.

Might as well just grab McCabe for a fraction of the price if you want a good defenseman upgrade.

I'm in the camp where we don't need a defenseman unless it's a legit top-pair guy. Is that Chychrun? I don't know, he's borderline but he'd compliment the Leafs nicely and might have the Lindholm-type of effect where playing with good players and a system that compliments him could make him better.

Losing Sandin would be a lot bigger of an impact than most people realize because he's so, so dominant on the 3rd pair and has shown he can step up In the lineup as long as he plays on the left side. Chychrun is definitely better today, but he's older, more expensive, and hasn't proven he can stay healthy. I'd be relatively comfortable making the swap, but adding Knies? A 1st? That's where I draw my line without an add from AZ.

 

[Rude Dog]

Would much rather aquire Meier over Chychrun.

A forward is sexier. But Chychrun provides a longer term solution on the back end and real threat on the PP which has struggled in game 7's. I wanted to add a top 6 (especially Horvat). But I am coming around on Chychrun.

My preference now is Chychrun and a under the radar potential top 6 scorer. Like a Nyquist, Perron. Bertuzzi would be perfect. Just not sure if Yzerman values him based on reputation or if this years injury plagued season brings his value down.

 

[weems]

Just going back over our teams offense in games 7's the last 4 years and it's almost comical how bad we've been shutdown especially when we're a team that's calling card is supposed to be elite offensively.

2022 vs TB game 7 = 1 goal scored, 0 for 3 on the PP
2021 VS MTL game 7 = 1 goal scored, 0 for 2 on the PP
2020 VS CLB game 5 = 0 goals scored, 0 for 1 on the PP
2019 VS BOS game 7 = 1 goal scored, 0 for 2 on the PP

3 goals in total thru 4 game 7's and 0 for 8 on the PP

 

[SprDaVE]

I'm in the camp where we don't need a defenseman unless it's a legit top-pair guy. Is that Chychrun? I don't know, he's borderline but he'd compliment the Leafs nicely and might have the Lindholm-type of effect where playing with good players and a system that compliments him could make him better.

Losing Sandin would be a lot bigger of an impact than most people realize because he's so, so dominant on the 3rd pair and has shown he can step up In the lineup as long as he plays on the left side. Chychrun is definitely better today, but he's older, more expensive, and hasn't proven he can stay healthy. I'd be relatively comfortable making the swap, but adding Knies? A 1st? That's where I draw my line without an add from AZ.

I will say that Sandin hasn't done great when asked to play more minutes compared to what Chychrun already plays and he hasn't been the healthiest season to season either. He's missed chunks of time in most seasons he's been around.

But I agree... it doesn't feel like fair value at all.

 

[Apex Predator]

The leafs power play has struggled in elimination games. Chychrun helps with having a big shot at the point. It changes the dynamic of the powerplay completely. With that said I do think the leafs need another top 6. I don’t know if the leafs can afford an upgrade in the top 4 and top 6.

 

[mapleleafs34]

Just going back over our teams offense in games 7's the last 4 years and it's almost comical how bad we've been shutdown especially when we're a team that's calling card is supposed to be elite offensively.

2022 vs TB game 7 = 1 goal scored, 0 for 3 on the PP
2021 VS MTL game 7 = 1 goal scored, 0 for 2 on the PP
2020 VS CLB game 5 = 0 goals scored, 0 for 1 on the PP
2019 VS BOS game 7 = 1 goal scored, 0 for 2 on the PP

3 goals in total thru 4 game 7's and 0 for 8 on the PP

Teams legit just beg for Rielly to shoot on the PP. Take away Matthews & Marner on the flanks and we're toast. Happens every year. Exactly why having a threat of a Chych point shot would change everything IMO.