Rumor: Trade Thread XVIII: Brace Yourselves. Friday Is Coming.

[mrhockey193195]

Funny if the Rangers win games against good teams there will be other excuses. There were excuses for the Avs win already. Rangers fans are just most miserable fans in the world. You can't enjoy a good thing and have to come up with a million different reasons they suck.

Agree with you 100%...though I can't help but think there's some hypocrisy here, with how you massacred Henrik when he was struggling.

 

[Raspewtin]

Who was the last team to win a Cup without a #1C? 2003 Devils?

I think the 2006-2007 Ducks.

If Andy McDonald was playing wing that year (which I believe he was), Getzlaf at 58 points was their best center.

 

[Raspewtin]

Boston.

Yeah, forgot them.

 

[aufheben]

Boston.

David Krejci?

 

[Thirty One]

Who was the last team to win a Cup without a #1C? 2003 Devils?

That's a sample of what? 9?

I'm not sure how you would define that, anyways. Stepan has 12 less points than Krejci in the last 3 seasons. 1 less in the last 2 seasons.

 

[DutchShamrock]

Guys are getting a little too "NHL 2014" on trading ufas. Callahan and girardi are the only pressing decisions. Everyone else can sit down with management at the end of the season and talk money. The gap between the two won't be chasims. The returns on the stahlmans and Boyles won't trump the return on their play this season. I could care less if Boyle walks without a return of a mid round pick. Strahlman would probably be the only one that hurts.

Cally is the immediate issue because hr is playing in Sochi. Girardi is sitting at home so you can work on a contract until the deadline. Everyone else is there until July 1.

 

[Raspewtin]

David Krejci?

Hasn't been a 1C in years.

 

[aufheben]

That's a sample of what? 9?

I'm not sure how you would define that, anyways. Stepan has 12 less points than Krejci in the last 3 seasons. 1 less in the last 2 seasons.

Krejci is virtually a PPG player in the playoffs, in a large sample size. Stepan's production drops off a cliff in the playoffs.

You can go farther back than 2003. It's rare.

 

[NYR Viper]

If the Rangers move any of these guys I doubt whether they'll make moves that seriously have adverse impact on their playoff position. I expect for example that if Callahan gets traded--it's going to be for a roster player + either a prospect or draft pick. The same with Girardi--although Dan might get more.

I'm not swept away with this year's first rounders either. IMO--it's a so so looking draft and no point IMO in waiting for these guys to take 3-4-5 years of development to finally make our team as bottom liners or bottom pairing d-men with maybe the upside of being 2nd liners or No. 4 d-men. I'd prefer already developing players.

Nor do I see any point in trading Moore. I don't think he gets you a 2nd. We have a 4th line that's working well together in the meantime. I'd be more inclined to keep it together. In any case I can see Moore re-signing with us next year and pretty much filling the same kind of role. If Lindberg looks to be moving up--one of them can always go to the wing.

I really dislike this thinking that the organization shouldn't look 3-4 years down the road. Value is value. You will most likely find teams willing to give up those future a lot easier than a well developing prospect in their system. What does it matter? It adds value to the organization and more pieces for the future.

 

[aufheben]

Hasn't been a 1C in years.

He's 28th in league points today. Not to mention he can actually take faceoffs.

 

[McRanger]

Here's the Rangers Schedule in January that you posted.



The bolded teams are currently playoff teams. I've indicated the games we won with a green 'Win' beside it. Three of our wins came against playoff teams. Three. Of those playoff teams that we beat, only one of them is in the top-4 of their conference. So unless you're counting on playing weaker teams all the way to the cup, I'm not sure how any of this really fits into us being legitimate contenders for a cup.

The Rangers are 8-7-2 against the playoff teams in the east, using the current standings. The only teams they have an under .500 record against are Boston (0-2-0) and Tampa (1-2). They are even with Montreal, Pitt and Columbus and have a winning record against Toronto and Detroit.

In the west they are 5-6-0. The Rangers are under .500 against St. Louis (0-2-0) Anaheim (0-2-0) and San Jose (0-1-0). Three of those 5 loses were beat downs in the first weeks of the season. They are even with LA. They have a winning record against Chicago, Colorado, Minnesota and Vancouver.

13-13-2 for the season. 11-9-2 since the Montreal loss October 28th. 24 points. Since that date the Bruins have gotten 26 points against playoff teams, in one less game (22 vs. 21 games played). Boston has not played Chicago St. Louis or Minnesota yet.

The Rangers should beat up on bad or mediocre teams. That's what better teams do. They need to prove themselves against better teams. A seven game sample doesn't say much. They have 11 more games in the regular season and hopefully the playoffs to do so.

 

[Raspewtin]

He's 28th in league points today. Not to mention he can actually take faceoffs.

If David Krejci is a #1 center then I have no idea what HFB's definition of a #1 center is anymore.

The consensus is that a #1 should have dynamic offensive talent, the ability to make their teammates better, and should be the cornerstone of a team's offense. Krejci isn't any of those things.

 

[Trxjw]

Krejci might not be a traditional "#1C" but he's an absolutely stellar playoff performer. Nearly a PPG scorer in the post season with 73 points in 81 games. Bergeron is also a very good post-season player. That team knows how to win in the post-season.

 

[Raspewtin]

Krejci might not be a traditional "#1C" but he's an absolutely stellar playoff performer. Nearly a PPG scorer in the post season with 73 points in 81 games. Bergeron is also a very good post-season player. That team knows how to win in the post-season.

This I agree with.

But being a really good playoff performer doesn't make you a #1C. By that definition, Danny Briere is a top winger in the league.

 

[Thirty One]

Krejci is virtually a PPG player in the playoffs, in a large sample size. Stepan's production drops off a cliff in the playoffs.

You can go farther back than 2003. It's rare.

Meh. Stepan went from playing 40 games a year to playing 80-100 games. Not shocking his production has dipped towards the end of the season/playoffs. Don't think it's not something that can improve on.

You could go back 40 years and it still wouldn't be a big enough sample to conclude that a team can't win without a #1 center.

The 2004 Flames got within 1 game of winning the Cup with Craig Conroy as their top center. 2012 Devils within 2 games with Adam Henrique. 1999 Sabres with 2 games with Mike Peca. 2003 Ducks within 1 game with Steve Rucchin.

Were those teams doomed from the start?

 

[aufheben]

I didn't say they can't, I'm saying it's unlikely.

I don't think Stepan can't improve either, I'll just wait until it actually happens.

 

[McRanger]

Meh. Stepan went from playing 40 games a year to playing 80-100 games. Not shocking his production has dipped towards the end of the season/playoffs. Don't think it's not something that can improve on.

You could go back 40 years and it still wouldn't be a big enough sample to conclude that a team can't win without a #1 center.

The 2004 Flames got within 1 game of winning the Cup with Craig Conroy as their top center. 2012 Devils within 2 games with Adam Henrique. 1999 Sabres with 2 games with Mike Peca. 2003 Ducks within 1 game with Steve Rucchin.

Were those teams doomed from the start?

Obviously.

 

[Vidic15*]

Pat Leonard saying Bartlett and Sather spoke yesterday and will speak again today. Perhaps, they are making headway towards a contract. I'm beginning to accept they fact we will have a 6mil+ third liner on our team. Sather's going to have to get really creative to upgrade this team after he hands out all these big contracts.

 

[Trxjw]

The Rangers are 8-7-2 against the playoff teams in the east, using the current standings. The only teams they have an under .500 record against are Boston (0-2-0) and Tampa (1-2). They are even with Montreal, Pitt and Columbus and have a winning record against Toronto and Detroit.

In the west they are 5-6-0. The Rangers are under .500 against St. Louis (0-2-0) Anaheim (0-2-0) and San Jose (0-1-0). Three of those 5 loses were beat downs in the first weeks of the season. They are even with LA. They have a winning record against Chicago, Colorado, Minnesota and Vancouver.

13-13-2 for the season. 11-9-2 since the Montreal loss October 28th. 24 points. Since that date the Bruins have gotten 26 points against playoff teams, in one less game (22 vs. 21 games played). Boston has not played Chicago St. Louis or Minnesota yet.

The Rangers should beat up on bad or mediocre teams. That's what better teams do. They need to prove themselves against better teams. A seven game sample doesn't say much. They have 11 more games in the regular season and hopefully the playoffs to do so.

Those are all totally valid points. Like I said in another post, I was simply trying to point out that throwing the teams record in January out there as evidence of being a contender is pointless because it can be spun just about any way you wish. It's my own opinion that this team is not built for playoff success, and that has very little to do with anything outside of the team itself. It's a positive sign that this team is beating the teams it should be beating. However, I do not feel we could beat the top teams in the league over a 7 game series.

I think keeping Callahan and Girardi past the deadline if you cannot sign them is a mistake, and that's before you even consider the fact that the argument to keep them is so we can make a run at a cup that I feel is out of the reach of this current team.

 

[Thirty One]

Krejci might not be a traditional "#1C" but he's an absolutely stellar playoff performer. Nearly a PPG scorer in the post season with 73 points in 81 games. Bergeron is also a very good post-season player. That team knows how to win in the post-season.

I've found that teams that have a lot of talent tend to know how to win in the playoffs.

 

[Raspewtin]

I can't believe I'm actually really annoyed at the fact that Ryan Callahan might resign with this team.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

This coming from the guy who was ready to burn Lundqvist at the stake earlier this year.

Well Lundqvist sucked earlier this year.

 

[Trxjw]

This I agree with.

But being a really good playoff performer doesn't make you a #1C. By that definition, Danny Briere is a top winger in the league.

Briere certainly was at one point, but I digress. It's not about the numbers alone. It's about finding guys who can step up their game in the playoffs. The Bruins have those players. The Hawks have those players. The Pens have those players. It's the reason those teams are constantly competing for the cup year after year.

Krejci might not be a regular season #1C, but in the post-season he sure as hell is. I'd take the guy who has the extra playoff gear over the regular season all-star any day of the week.

 

[Raspewtin]

Briere certainly was at one point, but I digress. It's not about the numbers alone. It's about finding guys who can step up their game in the playoffs. The Bruins have those players. The Hawks have those players. The Pens have those players. It's the reason those teams are constantly competing for the cup year after year.

Krejci might not be a regular season #1C, but in the post-season he sure as hell is. I'd take the guy who has the extra playoff gear over the regular season all-star any day of the week.

And unfortunately, half the Rangers roster performs worse in the playoffs. Stepan, terrible. Callahan usually disappears. Nash had an awful playoffs. Richards is definitely not a Conn Smythe winner anymore.

I really want to see how things go this year with AV.

 

[Thirty One]

I didn't say they can't, I'm saying it's unlikely.

OK, but I still object to the whole line of reasoning.

Hockey teams have lots of parts. You can make up for weakness in some areas by being strong in other areas.