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Rumor: Trade Thread XVII: Callahan's Reckoning.

  • Thread starter Thread starter *Bob Richards*
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silverfish said:
If for nothing else, I'd love to see the **** storm that follows if Vanek were to sign here than for less money that the Islanders offered him :laugh:

Did you leave Stewart out of your lineup because this is without trading Callahan for him? Or two years down the line after he walks as an FA?

I don't think Vanek ends up anywhere but Minnesota this off-season though. Watching him and Zucc's on the same line would be a thing of beauty. And then we can bring the #LazyVanek trend to HFNYR :nod:

If/when Callahan walks, and Richards is bought out, Sather is sure going to have a lot of maneuver room. Doesn't someone here have a signature about giving Sather cap space? :naughty:

Also, I guess most people are on board with / okay with giving Brassards his $4m QO? I still don't feel great about that, but we can't really afford to lose him and Richie this off-season. Unless Miller is ready for full time 3C duties next year, and we sign someone like Stastny (oh god, no, well, depending on contract, of course).
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Separate points. Just saying that may be why the Rangers like him.

I would rather get very good prospects picks and move on.
 
NYR Viper said:
He isn't a 3rd line grinder. But he is a borderline top-6 RW right now on this team. Zuccarello has been scoring at every level he has been at including being on pace for 40 points over his short stints in the NHL in the past. He is the Rangers best puck possession player. He fits the system and he makes the players around him better.

No one has made a good enough argument to change my mind that moving Callahan shouldn't happen.
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I think it's erroneous to consider Zucc a better player than Callahan, despite the fantastic season he's having. And Zucc is one of my favorite players, and he's bringing FAR more this season than he's ever brought before. I don't think that makes Callahan expendable, it just makes RW the strength of our team (something it always seems to be).

I'm not advocating signing Callahan at anything close to 7 million, but in my mind, he's still one of if not the most complete forwards on the team, in terms of point scoring, defensive ability, physicality, experience, so on so forth. The decision to move Callahan depends on the potential return (I doubt it's going to be as good as most people hope), or what Sather can lock him up to. If slats can get something like 6 for 6.2, I'd honestly be cool with it. It's not ideal (I'd prefer that 6M for 5), but if the cap follows what it's predicted to do, it's far from debilitating.

On top of that, it pays the team captain, a home grown "Heart and soul" (I know we're sick of that term) not only for what he brings, but for what he's done the in the past for our team, instead of paying UFAs for what they've done for other teams.
 
ZacUSNYR said:
Miller has been interesting, you watch him in the AHL and you think this kid is ready for the NHL. You watch him in the NHL and you think he needs more time in the AHL.

I think Miller has the potential to be a callahan type player, he just needs to drop the reservations and bring it.

So do you ship out Callahan for a shallow draft, 1st round pick? Or a project? High side prospect?

Perhaps it might be better to hold onto him since he is one of the best rentals out there right now, go for the play off push with him (pending he's not injured, and would an injury be so bad when it came July 1st?).

The Clarkson/Horton/Clowe signings last year really **** the league IMO.
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If you can't re-sign him it's not worth it to hold onto him.

Get a high end offensive prospect + middle defensive prospect + 1st. Maybe that team has a young NHLer they like who can slot in.
 
Richards' buyout is all but certain. I think most of us are fine with moving Brassard, but only if we have a replacement. He's our de facto 2C next season if we can't find one in the UFA or trade markets.
 
Callagraves said:
I think it's erroneous to consider Zucc a better player than Callahan, despite the fantastic season he's having. And Zucc is one of my favorite players, and he's bringing FAR more this season than he's ever brought before. I don't think that makes Callahan expendable, it just makes RW the strength of our team (something it always seems to be).

I'm not advocating signing Callahan at anything close to 7 million, but in my mind, he's still one of if not the most complete forwards on the team, in terms of point scoring, defensive ability, physicality, experience, so on so forth. The decision to move Callahan depends on the potential return (I doubt it's going to be as good as most people hope), or what Sather can lock him up to. If slats can get something like 6 for 6.2, I'd honestly be cool with it. It's not ideal (I'd prefer that 6M for 5), but if the cap follows what it's predicted to do, it's far from debilitating.

On top of that, it pays the team captain, a home grown "Heart and soul" (I know we're sick of that term) not only for what he brings, but for what he's done the in the past for our team, instead of paying UFAs for what they've done for other teams.
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Paying players for past productivity is the best way to make your team non-competitive.
 
Ola said:
A few facts, the cap was 56.8m when Toews deal was signed for example. They are cap friendly now lol? That is kind of my point. Toews got 11 percent of Chi's cap in 2010, that is equal to getting 7.9m this summer. 7.9m per would not be bad for a 22 y/o -- which Toews was when he signed that contract.

You are thinking exactly like Slats. Our way would have been to force Toews to take 5.75m over 3 years. Then being forced to match anyone on the UFA market.

You are NEVER going to get someone to sign long term unless you give a little premium. Just like Chicago did to a 22 y/o. A few years later however, you stand there thinking "wow those guys took cap friendly deals".

Go back and look, and you will see that it's. Exactly the same thing with Kane and Sharpe.

Hossa is signed until he is 43 I think. Surely that must mean that Chicago is doomed? Slats would NEVER risk that. This is how it will play out though. Hossa will play until he wants to retire. Who knows when that will be, 36/38/40. Then he got two options. He can go to a doctor and say (i) "hey I am hurt sign this paper" and collect a little insurance money or (ii) screw Chi by officially retire. But but but, he might be healthy??? I can promise you that there isn't a human born who could play in the NHL until he was close to 40 without having one single ligament, joint, back, head or whatever to point at. I mean, in reality it's the opposite. These guys has a problem to point at one part of their body NOT hurt. Watch Slats buy out Richards.

But, Slats will nickle and dime with Brass, Stralsy, Stepan, Hagelin and co so that they hit UFA market on a regular basis. Save a few 100k one year instead of locking them up. The result is that they will have less value on the trade market, we will pay them a lot more once those 1-2 year deal runs out (watch and see with Stepan), and we will jump on and pain insane contracts to players who paid their dues elsewhere.

It's sickening really.
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I don't think I am making my point too well, because we are dealing in non-related side semantics. The major point is, in looking at the Chicago situation, or many other teams who tend to consistently do well, is that they lock up their best players in long-term deals relative to the cap. The deals are usually very fair to the player, but still below market value and fair to the team, as well. You can run through capgeek or nhlnumbers and see this on most of the better teams. The important thing is that these teams are doing this FOR THEIR BEST PLAYERS. Callahan is NOT one of this team's best players.

Point is, the best teams lock up guys at below market value, but still good contracts for the player. The players took good deals that were fair to them and to the team, which still enabled the team to have the flexibility to build a good team. If you need a closer comparable to Cally, Pavelski took a $6 mil per for 5 year extension at basically the same age as Callahan to stay in San Jose. With the cap rising, I'm sure Marleau and Thornton could hit the open market and get a lot better deals than they just got, too. These guys are all trying to hold their team together and win in the same place, whereas Callahan is asking for more money than these guys despite having inferior numbers to all of them and while also being a less important piece on his team.

The NYR already gave one of these deals to their best player: his name is Lundqvist. I love Cally, but he is not that guy, not even close. So again, if Callahan wants to hit the market and get his big pay day, that is 100 percent his right and I wish him all the best and appreciate all he did. But this nonsense he keeps spewing about his heart is in NY needs to stop. Bending the team over for an over-payment on term and/or price screams otherwise.

The player has every right to get every penny he can get, and I am totally behind that. But I am also behind the team trying to build the best team they can without them being bent over by a guy who is not even in the team's depth top 5 on the depth chart, yet feels he should be paid like an elite player at $7 mil per.
 
I just don't understand how people think letting Callahan walk for nothing is a better alternative to getting a 20-goal guy who is under contract for another year, PLUS another asset (or assets) in exchange via trade. How are assets who MIGHT turn into a 20 goal scorer better than a guy who IS a 20 goal scorer? He's not old. He's not injury prone. He's not expensive. The only thing wrong is that he has a questionable battle level from shift to shift. Frankly, if that's the lone wart on a 20 goal power forward, then I'm just fine with it. Especially when you consider that any questions about his compete level are amplified 10 fold because he plays on a team full of guys who get by almost exclusively on compete level.

Yes, we have a handful of good looking RW prospects, but none of them have established themselves in the NHL yet. Until they're literally pushing people out of the lineup, there's no sense to leave a spot for them in the lineup. If Fast (who is an equally good LW) or Kristo are ready, then we will find a spot for them. This team finds a spot for youth when they are ready.
 
Mats Zuccarelli said:
Where are these Callahan to the Sharks rumors coming from? Incarcerated Bob?
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Would've had to come from another source first. Bob steals rumors and then tries to jump the gun and "guess" that a deal is about to get done so it looks like he was first.

Thats seriously all I've ever seen him do
 
Based on the market this offseason I think it will take 7 years, 55 million dollars to sign Vanek. So it would be a huge investment on a risky asset, as much as I like him.

Moulson, the big worry is the Tavares effect. Tavares makes wingers like PA Parenteau amazing.

Cammalleri is a good choice, he can play center as well as LW, is a PP guy, and has had clutch playoffs.

That said I think any of the three simply fit the top 6 puzzle well. Especially finding an upgrade at LW on the Zucc line, which will be our 2nd line next year. Get some more girt and size out of the third line.
 
Fitzy said:
Based on the market this offseason I think it will take 7 years, 55 million dollars to sign Vanek. So it would be a huge investment on a risky asset, as much as I like him.

Moulson, the big worry is the Tavares effect. Tavares makes wingers like PA Parenteau amazing.

Cammalleri is a good choice, he can play center as well as LW, is a PP guy, and has had clutch playoffs.

That said I think any of the three simply fit the top 6 puzzle well. Especially finding an upgrade at LW on the Zucc line, which will be our 2nd line next year. Get some more girt and size out of the third line.
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The other option is to play MZA on LW and Stewart opposite.

MZA-Brassard-Stewart
 
Funny how nobody ever brings up the bad deals when they're advocating giving long term contracts to people. Yeah, Toews and Kane are great. Now go ahead and tell me the same for Leino, Zajac and DiPietro. Tell me that a 10 year deal for Chris Drury at a smaller hit would have been a "shrewd" signing for Sather. Tell me that Dustin Brown's contract is looking like a hell of a bargain for the Kings right now.

If you want to convince me that signing Callahan for 7 years is a good idea, don't try to use superstar caliber, point-per-game players with multiple cups to do it.
 
callahan for Hertl?

lol, DONE!

Callahan + Girardi for Boyle & Hertl? that would be an interesting trade.

Boyles getting up there in age, but he'd solve a lot of problems.
 
Trxjw said:
Very little from the Sharks that would interest me and also be realistically available for Callahan. Hertl? Keep dreaming.
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I like Nieto. They have to have some nice prospects in the pipe line too. Their 1st rounder, as most teams who will deal for Callahan, will be late though.
 
I would take from San Jose:

Matthew Nieto + Matt Tennyson + Freddie Hamilton
 
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