Rumor: Trade Thread XVII: Callahan's Reckoning.

[Levitate]

The entire team looked like they had no idea what to do for over a quarter of the season. Guys we've relied on to do the heavy lifting in the past played like they were just learning the sport. The biggest goal for the first half of the season was to get above .500 and pray they were able to stay there, and that in itself was a major accomplishment. They looked like bottom-feeders when playing against bottom-feeders. It's not too far-fetched to look back and see why people thought AV's system didn't fit this team and the "way it was built" (whatever way that was/is).

What scared me was that they started the season terribly, then straightened things out and looked better, and then collapsed again and looked terrible for another decently long stretch. That collapsing and playing like it was the beginning of the season again was what made it seem like the team had made no progress in learning the system and getting better

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

You mean fans, who are totally unplugged from the behind the scenes goings on of the team, base their opinions on results? Weird.

They base their opinions on results in a weekly or even daily period, which is stupid.

 

[LORDE]

All this talk about how we're playing right now.

I dunno... I see this as a hot streak rather than THE level these guys should be playing at. I hope I'm wrong seriously... but what kind of talk do we have if we loose the next two games and then hit the Olympic break?

Teams go through peaks and valleys over 82 games... Chicago had a peak that lasted half a season and never dropped in the play-offs last yr... HOW RARE WAS THAT?!?!

You can't base roster decisions off of a hot streak.

You most certainly do not keep Cally because you like the way they're playing in January just prior to a two week Olympic break in an 82 game season where the Cup won't be handed to a captain until early June.

 

[Callagraves]

You don't hear much about Vigneault's terrible system anymore. How many people here wanted to fire AV to bring in Peter Laviolette and now the Rangers are headed to the finals?

Dude, I am, no joke, 100% guilty of this. To the nth degree.

And I stand by both statements. I think the team would have been playing better much earlier with a different coach.

I don't know if they'd play THIS well, but who knows if they'll continue this play. I'd ****ing LOVE to eat my own words on it.

 

[wentz22]

What is Brad Richards worth?

Hey everyone, just curious what your guys value of Brad is, I hear alot of rummors that he is most likely a Buy-out candidate this summer. Just wondering what you would see as fair return, if he were to be traded rather than bought out.

 

[Blue Blooded]

Won't be traded. The only reason we'd buy him out is the fear of the cap recapture penalty if he retires, we wouldn't get that protection if we traded him.

Richards is actually doing a decent job right now, and by the looks of the UFA market is actually living up to his cap hit. I'm not sure I want him bought out at all TBH, I'm sure he could find a doctor willing to qualify him for LTIR if he wants to "retire" and circumvent the recapture penalty that way.

 

[Levitate]

All this talk about how we're playing right now.

I dunno... I see this as a hot streak rather than THE level these guys should be playing at. I hope I'm wrong seriously... but what kind of talk do we have if we loose the next two games and then hit the Olympic break?

If I'm not mistaken the Rangers have been on this "hot streak" since December so that's a pretty long hot streak at this point.

 

[NYGBleedBlueNYR]

More mistakes are made by indecision than the wrong decision.

Keeping him as rental means they can't decide what type of team they have IMO.

Can we afford to give up the assets for a top rental? IMO no. So why give up the assets he'd bring in?

I really hope he's gone soon.

 

[haveandare]

They base their opinions on results in a weekly or even daily period, which is stupid.

I could have sworn the post I quoted was mocking people who's opinions changed once, from when the team looked like they never played hockey and was routinely blown out, to when they looked great and dominated some of the better teams in the league. That's one change of opinion over 50+ games that is completely warranted in my opinion.

I'll fully admit that I was wary of AV at first and I probably suggested that he was the wrong choice and/or should be replaced. Why? Because the team looked pathetic, absolutely pathetic, night after night after night for a long, long stretch. And I'll fully admit now that I think he's the right coach for the team and that the team, while not being a lock to win multiple rounds, is firmly in the second most competitive group of playoff teams. Results over ~20, ~30 of games in an 82 game aren't really that crazy of a basis for a change in opinion. Things change. Sticking to your original opinion, even when it's blatantly been proven to be wrong, is worse than adjusting your opinion to mesh with reality every single time IMO.

 

[alkurtz]

Let's remember one thing about this team now that makes us different from just about any team in the league and has been a major factor in our recent success; with the exception of Dorsett, we are completely healthy.

We have 9 top three line forwards and they are all healthy. We don't need to elevate Boyle, Moore or Carcillo into top line roles they can't perform. Our top 6 D are all healthy: no need to dress Falk. We can leave our top young players in the AHL to develop.

Things are going well right now but could easily be derailed by a couple of serious injuries. It seems every team has injuries except us. Recently, we have been not only good, but lucky too.

 

[Doctyl]

Hey everyone, just curious what your guys value of Brad is, I hear alot of rummors that he is most likely a Buy-out candidate this summer. Just wondering what you would see as fair return, if he were to be traded rather than bought out.

A lot. Would need massive overpayment to get us to take on the cap recapture penalty when he retires.

 

[LORDE]

If I'm not mistaken the Rangers have been on this "hot streak" since December so that's a pretty long hot streak at this point.

Yup.

And had a valley that went from Sept - Dec

New system, new coach, etc. etc.

My point is valid.

I'm not keeping a 3rd line RW who wants 7/7 because "the team looks good lately".

There's a lot of hockey to be played and you know that.

 

[haveandare]

Regarding the idea of riding Callahan out and losing him for nothing:

Whether or not this is a "pathetic" idea depends entirely on what the best return for him is. If it's Stewart and a second or Stewart and a late 1st, I'd 100% rather keep Cally and let him walk for nothing at season's end. He's worth more to the team for the rest of this season than Stewart will be for the following one (which is the only one they'll have him for without massively overpaying him) and a pick that has a tiny chance of making the NHL years down the road. On the other hand, if an early 1st or a real good prospect can be had, he should be moved assuming that he and Sather are not budging at all.

It depends completely on the return.

 

[Trxjw]

I agree with you to an extent and we're a long way from the start of the playoffs...but:

Our D in general, and Staal in particular are playing brilliantly and now with Del Zotto moved, no one is playing out of position or being asked to be something they're not. We finally have 3 pairings that make sense.

Nash is playing, certainly, his best hockey as a Ranger and arguably playing at a dominance level the Rangers haven't gotten from a winger since Jagr in 05/06 (though that may be a stretch, I admit).

The team has two lines that make a lot of sense and can be problems in the playoffs. The bottom 6 may be a hodgepodge but it isn't a true weakness.

The notion of asking Henrik to steal us a series or two is, I agree, somewhat of a problem but based on what we're paying him (and thereby expecting of him) it's arguably by design and not by accident. I'm not saying it's a wise decision, but that's going to be, for better or worse, the plan for the next 8 years.

I feel really good about our chances to do some damage with this team. I'd like it a lot more if we could add a talented bottom 6 piece (like Goc from Florida) and rely less on Boyle/Moore, but right now, unless the Rangers get a massive overpayment for Callahan (and let's be honest, if that were happening it would have happened by now) I like this team's chances more than I like the chances of a quick rebuild being successful to still enable us to make a run with in-his-prime Henrik.

What Lundqvist gets paid isn't the issue. I just don't think going into the playoffs with "Hank can steal us a series" supports the idea of "this team can do some damage." Sure, if we ride Hank we might win a series, maybe even two, but you can't ride a goalie all the way to the SCF. We should know. We've been trying that approach for several years now.

Yes, the offense is playing better, but again it's made up of several inconsistent parts and several players who have a very poor playoff pedigree. Nash has been playing well, but to call him dominant is a stretch, IMO.

I just think this is an average team. Do I want to tank or something? No, but I don't think we should suddenly treat Callahan as a rental and make a conscious decision to make a run at the playoffs. We're not at the point as a team where we can afford to lose these players for nothing just so we could try and make a run at it. Yes, trading Callahan right now is going to hurt and will likely disrupt the locker room at least in the short term. I get that. However, how is that different from letting him walk for nothing in the summer? In my opinion, he's leaving one way or another. I'd rather have an asset in trade than a unrealistic push for playoff success.

 

[Ail]

I could have sworn the post I quoted was mocking people who's opinions changed once, from when the team looked like they never played hockey and was routinely blown out, to when they looked great and dominated some of the better teams in the league. That's one change of opinion over 50+ games that is completely warranted in my opinion.

I'll fully admit that I was wary of AV at first and I probably suggested that he was the wrong choice and/or should be replaced. Why? Because the team looked pathetic, absolutely pathetic, night after night after night for a long, long stretch. And I'll fully admit now that I think he's the right coach for the team and that the team, while not being a lock to win multiple rounds, is firmly in the second most competitive group of playoff teams. Results over ~20, ~30 of games in an 82 game aren't really that crazy of a basis for a change in opinion. Things change. Sticking to your original opinion, even when it's blatantly been proven to be wrong, is worse than adjusting your opinion to mesh with reality every single time IMO.

So basically you are admitting you were/are impatient and expect immediate results or we should give coaches the boot? I'm sorry but there are no legitimate excuses for that mentality.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

On the whole coaching thing - I wanted Laviolette over Torts when Renney was fired and would have preferred him this offseason had he been available. Of the options available at the time, I thought AV was the best (although I was intrigued by Eakins) and was okay with the hiring. Most important to me was that, first and foremost, the style of play change and b) the professionalism of the coach needed to increase about 400%.

Both missions accomplished so far. I am pleased.

 

[Callagraves]

Yup.

And had a valley that went from Sept - Dec

New system, new coach, etc. etc.

My point is valid.

I'm not keeping a 3rd line RW who wants 7/7 because "the team looks good lately".

There's a lot of hockey to be played and you know that.

You'd think consistently producing at a 50+ point pace would kill this dead.

But nope. This **** is still alive. ****ing beyond me.

 

[NYR Viper]

You'd think consistently producing at a 50+ point pace would kill this dead.

But nope. This **** is still alive. ****ing beyond me.

Nash is this teams #1 RW. MZA/Callahan are #2. MZA/Callahan are #3. MZA is outscoring him by quite a bit this season. MZA is PKing. MZA is PPing. Is he worth 6.5-7 million?

 

[Ail]

You'd think consistently producing at a 50+ point pace would kill this dead.

But nope. This **** is still alive. ****ing beyond me.

While Nash and Zucc are here where does Callahan slot on the RW depth chart?

If he is a second RW and wants to be paid like one then let someone else do it.

 

[Kane One]

Hey everyone, just curious what your guys value of Brad is, I hear alot of rummors that he is most likely a Buy-out candidate this summer. Just wondering what you would see as fair return, if he were to be traded rather than bought out.

He's not being traded.

 

[LORDE]

You'd think consistently producing at a 50+ point pace would kill this dead.

But nope. This **** is still alive. ****ing beyond me.

You ignored the most important aspect of my post:

"...who wants 7/7..."

So yeah, it's not dead.

And I'm a fan of his (not as much as you are obviously) , met him in August at the PGA Champ and have the pic of he and I on my wall. I told him he was my fav Captain since Mess.

He's not worth it and if he's traded (which if he holds to those demands, I hope he is) it's his doing not the NYR.

 

[haveandare]

So basically you are admitting you were/are impatient and expect immediate results or we should give coaches the boot? I'm sorry but there are no legitimate excuses for that mentality.

No. I know that I don't make decisions for the team and what I post on this message board has absolutely 0 impact on reality. I think more posters need to come to grips with this. Posting something here is worth nothing beyond the ensuing conversation and whatever you may learn about how to interpret the game from that discussion. If I thought my posting about AV would actually effect his job security (for whatever absolutely insane reason one might think that) I wouldn't have posted it. I knew deep down that it's a new coach and a big change, and maybe I was watching growing pains that were just extending far beyond what I expected. But, I was also starting to worry about how long it was going on and just how awful so much of the team was playing. So, I said something that was an exaggeration rooted in what I'd been watching for weeks at that point. I'm not sorry. This is a hockey forum, not a meeting room where the GM makes decisions.

I'd argue that there's no legitimate excuse for the mentality that leads to one thinking their posts here have any bearing on reality. I'd also argue that this mentality of "i told you so" around here is sad and useless. Someone was right about something they said in passing 6 months ago under an anonymous name on a hockey forum? Good for them. After the 5 seconds of self-satisfaction, there's nothing to that.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

You'd think consistently producing at a 50+ point pace would kill this dead.

But nope. This **** is still alive. ****ing beyond me.

On this team, at this point, I think its pretty clear he is the 3rd best RW. His usage is being scaled back, and I think MZA has surpassed him.

Also, you'd think using "on pace" stats for Callahan would be killed dead since hes injured a lot, but nope.

 

[Let Blaine Die]

Nash is this teams #1 RW. MZA/Callahan are #2. MZA/Callahan are #3. MZA is outscoring him by quite a bit this season. MZA is PKing. MZA is PPing. Is he worth 6.5-7 million?

But everyone in the Garden lets out an audible "ZUUUUUKE" everytime he touches the puck! He most definitely must be worth at least 7.5 million AAV!

 

[Fitzy]

6.5-7 is 1st line RW money. Not 2nd. Not 3rd. He's pricing himself out. Whether we like or dislike Callahan's game has little to do with it at this point.

The one thing I should say, in support of the people who want to sign Callahan no matter what, is that we really don't know what the other options are. Vanek and Moulson could land monster deals. I doubt Sather goes in next year with 10 million in cap space. What players, worse than Callahan and Girardi, might he give Callahan and Girardi's deals to?