Rumor: Trade Thread XVII: Callahan's Reckoning.

[Ola]

Cally now has 11 points (4 G , 7 A) in his last 15 games, with a + 8 rating since being back from his last injury, and while being starved for points since AV has not put him back on one of the PP units, and how great has the PP been as of late? Not too good. So, It's not just one game, it's about a quarter of a season of games.

Cally would be signed by now, at a good AAV, if Slats was prepared to lock him up untill he turns 36 y/o.

At the end of that contract, his porition of the cap would be the one of a 2.5-3.5m today on the account of everyone from Mirtly to Walsh who thinks its written in stone that the cap is hitting 100m (if common sense isn't enough). Even if heh was just a 4th line checker/PKer at the very end of a 8y contract, it wouldn't kill us to pay 3m to a tradition carrier and captain closing in on records for games played etc in NY.

It just feels a bit sad to loose our Cally due to the fact that Slats don't understand how the cap works and do not "believe" in what everyone else is doing, ie locking their player up.

 

[Ola]

Ola, I don't fully disagree with your opinion. I sound hypocritical regarding Stralman because I was thrilled that the Rangers were able to get back a signed Kevin Klein for 4 more years.

However, does it really make sense to hand out another longer term deal to a "solid" defenseman? I like Stralman, really I do, but to lock up another 2nd pair type long-term creates a bit of a log-jam. Prospects obviously have to earn their roster spots, but where does one open up when you add Stralman for another 4-5 years? The team lacks offensive impact from the blue line, and it's pretty important for the system Vigneault implements.

Players like that have trade value under longer deals only if they remain a contributor and they fill an immediate need for an inquiring team.

A lot changes in 4-5 years time. Maybe you have a bad year and an impact D-man falls into your lap. You can't just bury players in the minors anymore. If the player falls off, it hurts your team in the now, and often will require you to eat money in a deal.

Committing 4-5 years to secondary players is just too risky for my taste going forward, given the state and makeup of the roster. It's as much about minimizing the risk of a player's decline than it is about the salary cap flexibility.

Of course, a steep rising salary cap minimizes these issues. But that's no guarantee, even with the steady increase in new TV revenue.

The thing is, you will always be able to move a decent RD that can move the puck in this league.

Stralman or Brassard's numbers aren't out of this world, I would be suprised if they would not sign for a decent AAV over 4-5 years.

 

[Danthehockeyman]

Callahan for Mantha?

 

[Danthehockeyman]

Imagine a line of Duclair-Miller-Mantha

Oh my

 

[Cake or Death]

Cally would be signed by now, at a good AAV, if Slats was prepared to lock him up untill he turns 36 y/o.

At the end of that contract, his porition of the cap would be the one of a 2.5-3.5m today on the account of everyone from Mirtly to Walsh who thinks its written in stone that the cap is hitting 100m (if common sense isn't enough). Even if heh was just a 4th line checker/PKer at the very end of a 8y contract, it wouldn't kill us to pay 3m to a tradition carrier and captain closing in on records for games played etc in NY.

It just feels a bit sad to loose our Cally due to the fact that Slats don't understand how the cap works and do not "believe" in what everyone else is doing, ie locking their player up.

I think Sather is handling this spot on. This has everything to do with Callahan pricing himself out with ridiculous demands. Chicago follows the model you speak of with locking their players up, but their guys are all on team-friendly deals:

Kane $6.3 mil per
Toews $6.3 mil per
Sharp $5.9 mil per
Hossa $5.2 mil per

Callahan and his corner seem to think Cally should be paid more than those guys. Maybe on the open market he'll get more. But those guys all took less and hoisted a Cup. It's Callahan's right if the money is the more important thing, and I will not judge that at all. But if Callahan is demanding way, way more than he's worth, then his decision to price himself off the team is entirely on him.

 

[BBKers]

I think Sather is handling this spot on. This has everything to do with Callahan pricing himself out with ridiculous demands. Chicago follows the model you speak of with locking their players up, but their guys are all on team-friendly deals:

Kane $6.3 mil per
Toews $6.3 mil per
Sharp $5.9 mil per
Hossa $5.2 mil per

Callahan and his corner seem to think Cally should be paid more than those guys. Maybe on the open market he'll get more. But those guys all took less and hoisted a Cup. It's Callahan's right if the money is the more important thing, and I will not judge that at all. But if Callahan is demanding way, way more than he's worth, then his decision to price himself off the team is entirely on him.

Spot on analysis

 

[RangerBoy]

Los Angeles was a big team. Heavy team. In the playoffs facing the same team at least 6 times over 12-13 days is different with a big and heavy team. Take away time and space. The Rangers like to open it up and skate. Its the hard working teams which give the Rangers trouble like Columbus. Three months ago,many people here wanted to fire Vigneault and now its anything can happen in the playoffs. The Rangers are a small finesse team.

I heard Bob McKenzie on TSN Drive out of Toronto yesterday

The Rangers would prefer to move Callahan by Friday because when he goes to the Olympics,he is no longer their player. He can get hurt. Another coaching staff. Another management team. He belongs to USA Hockey. There goes the asset if he gets hurt. That's what McKenzie said.

Callahan’s choice, he has said repeatedly, is to remain a Ranger. Yet he’s not offering to stay on Broadway for a discount, and why would he be expected to when he has lived through a free-agent era in which Sather has thrown boatloads of money at people from other organizations — notably Wade Redden, Scott Gomez, Chris Drury and Brad Richards — to come to New York?

It originally was reported in this space Callahan’s asking price is seven years for $42 million. Wrong, according to a general manager of one club who has been in touch with Sather about dealing for Callahan, and who told The Post it is, “Seven years at six plus-plus-plus [million per].” So let’s posit, seven years at $47 million.

http://nypost.com/2014/02/05/blueshirts-could-keep-team-leader-as-a-rental/

See its the "pay the strangers and ask the family to take less" argument again. People here brushed it off but its a factor.

7 years and $47M.

If Callahan was a free agent,Sather would offer him 7 years and $47M.

 

[Ola]

RB- I agree for sure about that factor.

And believe me, another factor is when a 28 y/o is asked to take a discount, but then his teams tells him that they only want him for 5 years so that they can dump him. That also don't add up.

 

[Vitto79]

Snyrangersblog saying girardi close to a deal in principal, no quote though

I could see Cally sticking around through tgevilympic break . Wanting an answer and walking him are 2 different things. Take the month to keep the captain . He could Conlme down in price

 

[Ola]

I think Sather is handling this spot on. This has everything to do with Callahan pricing himself out with ridiculous demands. Chicago follows the model you speak of with locking their players up, but their guys are all on team-friendly deals:

Kane $6.3 mil per
Toews $6.3 mil per
Sharp $5.9 mil per
Hossa $5.2 mil per

Callahan and his corner seem to think Cally should be paid more than those guys. Maybe on the open market he'll get more. But those guys all took less and hoisted a Cup. It's Callahan's right if the money is the more important thing, and I will not judge that at all. But if Callahan is demanding way, way more than he's worth, then his decision to price himself off the team is entirely on him.

A few facts, the cap was 56.8m when Toews deal was signed for example. They are cap friendly now lol? That is kind of my point. Toews got 11 percent of Chi's cap in 2010, that is equal to getting 7.9m this summer. 7.9m per would not be bad for a 22 y/o -- which Toews was when he signed that contract.

You are thinking exactly like Slats. Our way would have been to force Toews to take 5.75m over 3 years. Then being forced to match anyone on the UFA market.

You are NEVER going to get someone to sign long term unless you give a little premium. Just like Chicago did to a 22 y/o. A few years later however, you stand there thinking "wow those guys took cap friendly deals".

Go back and look, and you will see that it's. Exactly the same thing with Kane and Sharpe.

Hossa is signed until he is 43 I think. Surely that must mean that Chicago is doomed? Slats would NEVER risk that. This is how it will play out though. Hossa will play until he wants to retire. Who knows when that will be, 36/38/40. Then he got two options. He can go to a doctor and say (i) "hey I am hurt sign this paper" and collect a little insurance money or (ii) screw Chi by officially retire. But but but, he might be healthy??? I can promise you that there isn't a human born who could play in the NHL until he was close to 40 without having one single ligament, joint, back, head or whatever to point at. I mean, in reality it's the opposite. These guys has a problem to point at one part of their body NOT hurt. Watch Slats buy out Richards.

But, Slats will nickle and dime with Brass, Stralsy, Stepan, Hagelin and co so that they hit UFA market on a regular basis. Save a few 100k one year instead of locking them up. The result is that they will have less value on the trade market, we will pay them a lot more once those 1-2 year deal runs out (watch and see with Stepan), and we will jump on and pain insane contracts to players who paid their dues elsewhere.

It's sickening really.

 

[RangerBoy]

Snyrangersblog saying girardi close to a deal in principal, no quote though

I could see Cally sticking around through tgevilympic break . Wanting an answer and walking him are 2 different things. Take the month to keep the captain . He could Conlme down in price

That's Brett Cyrgalis from the NY Post. Is he going by what Brooks reported that week?

There was no news on Dan Girardi and his contract status, as the pending unrestricted free agent defenseman played a season-low 16:19, which included him taking two minor penalties. The first led to a second-period Colorado goal from Gabriel Landeskog, cutting the Rangers’ lead to 2-1, and the second was the penalty that gave the Avalanche a huge 5-on-3 man-advantage late in the second.

Girardi is believed to be relatively close to a deal in principle with the Rangers, but nothing is official yet.

http://nypost.com/2014/02/05/new-daddy-staal-helps-stop-avalanche/

When the TSN guys or Friedman or Kyper reports it,different story.

 

[cd211]

I think Sather is handling this spot on. This has everything to do with Callahan pricing himself out with ridiculous demands. Chicago follows the model you speak of with locking their players up, but their guys are all on team-friendly deals:

Kane $6.3 mil per
Toews $6.3 mil per
Sharp $5.9 mil per
Hossa $5.2 mil per

Callahan and his corner seem to think Cally should be paid more than those guys. Maybe on the open market he'll get more. But those guys all took less and hoisted a Cup. It's Callahan's right if the money is the more important thing, and I will not judge that at all. But if Callahan is demanding way, way more than he's worth, then his decision to price himself off the team is entirely on him.

kane and toews are bad examples.. they we're RFA's and signed their current deals after their ELCs..

Sharp is a good example.. he took way less then what he could of got on the open market..

Hossa not so much he signed a 12 year deal..

its so hard to judge if he'll sign.. imo they'll prob settle for 6x6

 

[Lion Hound]

Just tossing this out there...

Callahan for 6, or 7 years at $45-$47 Million

Or

Jerome Iginla for 2 years at $10-$12 Million.


What's the smarter move?

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

Los Angeles was a big team. Heavy team. In the playoffs facing the same team at least 6 times over 12-13 days is different with a big and heavy team. Take away time and space. The Rangers like to open it up and skate. Its the hard working teams which give the Rangers trouble like Columbus. Three months ago,many people here wanted to fire Vigneault and now its anything can happen in the playoffs. The Rangers are a small finesse team.

I heard Bob McKenzie on TSN Drive out of Toronto yesterday

The Rangers would prefer to move Callahan by Friday because when he goes to the Olympics,he is no longer their player. He can get hurt. Another coaching staff. Another management team. He belongs to USA Hockey. There goes the asset if he gets hurt. That's what McKenzie said.



http://nypost.com/2014/02/05/blueshirts-could-keep-team-leader-as-a-rental/

See its the "pay the strangers and ask the family to take less" argument again. People here brushed it off but its a factor.

7 years and $47M.

If Callahan was a free agent,Sather would offer him 7 years and $47M.

RB don't even bother, so many delusional people out there, I had a conversation with my dad last night, he considers himself a die hard but can only name 5 guys on the team, he calls Henrik Henry, he told me if Cally gets traded he's not watching the team and cursed Sather's name, how can you trade him and not sign him etc..... Some people just don't get it and just don't understand things. So a few wins and now we're favorites again, let's go boys trade our grade A prospects and picks for rentals YOLO!

 

[Blue Blooded]

A few facts, the cap was 56.8m when Toews deal was signed for example. They are cap friendly now lol? That is kind of my point. Toews got 11 percent of Chi's cap in 2010, that is equal to getting 7.9m this summer. 7.9m per would not be bad for a 22 y/o -- which Toews was when he signed that contract.

You are thinking exactly like Slats. Our way would have been to force Toews to take 5.75m over 3 years. Then being forced to match anyone on the UFA market.

You are NEVER going to get someone to sign long term unless you give a little premium. Just like Chicago did to a 22 y/o. A few years later however, you stand there thinking "wow those guys took cap friendly deals".

Go back and look, and you will see that it's. Exactly the same thing with Kane and Sharpe.

Hossa is signed until he is 43 I think. Surely that must mean that Chicago is doomed? Slats would NEVER risk that. This is how it will play out though. Hossa will play until he wants to retire. Who knows when that will be, 36/38/40. Then he got two options. He can go to a doctor and say (i) "hey I am hurt sign this paper" and collect a little insurance money or (ii) screw Chi by officially retire. But but but, he might be healthy??? I can promise you that there isn't a human born who could play in the NHL until he was close to 40 without having one single ligament, joint, back, head or whatever to point at. I mean, in reality it's the opposite. These guys has a problem to point at one part of their body NOT hurt. Watch Slats buy out Richards.

But, Slats will nickle and dime with Brass, Stralsy, Stepan, Hagelin and co so that they hit UFA market on a regular basis. Save a few 100k one year instead of locking them up. The result is that they will have less value on the trade market, we will pay them a lot more once those 1-2 year deal runs out (watch and see with Stepan), and we will jump on and pain insane contracts to players who paid their dues elsewhere.

It's sickening really.

I agree with you on principle (though I don't think Callahan has a proper role on this team and should be traded for that reason), but Stepan's deal turned out to be a necessity.

I wanted him locked up on an 8 year contract, but as it turned out we were right up against the cap with his cheap bridge deal - we didn't have the room to sign him for longer.

 

[Raspewtin]

RB don't even bother, so many delusional people out there, I had a conversation with my dad last night, he considers himself a die hard but can only name 5 guys on the team, he calls Henrik Henry, he told me if Cally gets traded he's not watching the team and cursed Sather's name, how can you trade him and not sign him etc..... Some people just don't get it and just don't understand things. So a few wins and now we're favorites again, let's go boys trade our grade A prospects and picks for rentals YOLO!

I haven't seen one post on this board that even suggests that.

 

[Ail]

If Callahan took two dumb penalties, didn't score, and the Rangers lost last night this thread would look a lot different over the past 12 hours.

Aside for the few people who have been consistently behind re-signing Callahan despite it looking grim, anyone now saying they should ride him to FA or pay him because "lol Cup" need to lay of the sauce and come down off the high off his 2 goals.

He looked great last night, like a guy who might not play at MSG again as the captain of the New York Rangers. We'll see.

 

[eco's bones]

If that was Callahan's last game for us it was a very good one. I can live with the Rangers moving him. I'm kind of expecting them to get a roster player plus a good prospect or draft pick back. I think RB's analysis of the Rangers not being a big team is correct as well as size being a factor in playoff series. If the Rangers were to get back Stewart from St. Louis that might help us. He is big, strong and very physical at least when he wants to be. I think I could live with that proposed deal.

It's obvious that hanging onto the same core is not likely going to win us any championships. We might have a good team but there's too many flaws. Rangers have to decide who is essential going forward and at what cost. I think our goaltenders and our D our fine. I think the forwards--paticularly at center--not so much.

Anyway other teams are flawed too. Pittsburgh has to wonder about 1. Fleury in the playoffs 2. a less than stellar defense corps 3. injuries. Boston to me is the most complete team out there. Tampa Bay--somewhat inexperienced in the playoffs. Montreal has a popgun offense. Columbus--inexperience in the playoffs. Toronto--suspect goaltending and one of the worst defense in the East. Detroit--scoring depth and a suspect defense.

 

[Let Blaine Die]

So is the consensus on this board that this was Callahan's Rangers swan song?

Doubt it. I don't think Callahan will be traded until after the Olympic break. Sather may have set a deadline for Friday, but it doesn't sound like teams are taking it seriously. I mean, what is Sather going to do Friday if teams aren't giving him offers? He's not just going to re-sign or let it ride with Callahan. Teams probably won't feel the pressure to make a deal until the actual trade deadline.

 

[Ail]

Doubt it. I don't think Callahan will be traded until after the Olympic break. Sather may have set a deadline for Friday, but it doesn't sound like teams are taking it seriously. I mean, what is Sather going to do Friday if teams aren't giving him offers? He's not just going to re-sign or let it ride with Callahan. Teams probably won't feel the pressure to make a deal until the actual trade deadline.

If I were the team trading for him I certainly would not want to acquire him until after the Olympics. The risk of injury is higher because of what's on the line. Players will push themselves hard.

For that reason I can understand there not being a deal to be made now and Sather having to take less or risk the injury himself. Tough spot.

 

[NYR Viper]

People wavering on trading him because of last night are hilarious to me. He has a good game and people want to throw the moon at him. Close to 7 million a season for 7 years? Huge pass. Nothing changes the fact that he is going to break down with his playing style and he lacks the skill to make up for it as he gets older.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

The onus is on both sides to concede if they are serious about extending.

Sather concedes 1 year, Callahan concedes 1 mill a year. 6 years, 5.85 per. That's what I think will realistically get it done.

I don't think signing Callahan through the age of 34 would be the worst thing.

I think trade Callahan because he's "overpriced" and turning around and spending that money on Paul Stastny will be much worse for the team going forward.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

People wavering on trading him because of last night are hilarious to me. He has a good game and people want to throw the moon at him. Close to 7 million a season for 7 years? Huge pass. Nothing changes the fact that he is going to break down with his playing style and he lacks the skill to make up for it as he gets older.

Yea, but can you accurately predict when that breakdown will happen?

32? 34? 36? Could happen on his last year as a Ranger. Could happen after a 5 or 6 year contract. Could happen midway. The broken finger was circumstantial. The twisted knee was because his skate got caught on a rut in the ice. Vigneault isn't Torts. Cally plays reckless, but much less so under AV. That deterioration may come later than people think.

 

[JaeTM]

Doubt it. I don't think Callahan will be traded until after the Olympic break. Sather may have set a deadline for Friday, but it doesn't sound like teams are taking it seriously. I mean, what is Sather going to do Friday if teams aren't giving him offers? He's not just going to re-sign or let it ride with Callahan. Teams probably won't feel the pressure to make a deal until the actual trade deadline.

If I were the team trading for him I certainly would not want to acquire him until after the Olympics. The risk of injury is higher because of what's on the line. Players will push themselves hard.

For that reason I can understand there not being a deal to be made now and Sather having to take less or risk the injury himself. Tough spot.

Makes sense. Imagine if we traded him to a team and he blocked a shot in the Olympics and broke his leg and was out for 6-8 weeks? Boy would that team be furious.

 

[slugox]

I'm not sure what the answer is to the Callahan situation, but breaking up the season for the olympics is not my cup of tea. Let the amateurs handle that.