Speculation: Trade Thread Part XII

[Samuel Culper III]

I'm happy you like MDZ, I do too, if he was a RD I would not trade him for Gudas. I have only seen RG like 10 times, I guessing you have seen more of him then me. Maybe you see something more than me. I see a D solid on his skates makes smart easy plays, will get better but will not turn into much more then what he is. Gets his points because of the team he is on more then him making O plays. Nothing special but solid. Like a Mike Sauer(I think Sauer was better). To me in a vacuum that is not worth MDZ but it is needed more then MDZ.

You're not off on Gudas but you left out a huge part of his game. Besides being much better defensively than he is offensively, he is one of THE most physical D in the NHL since debuting and he's incredibly strong and tough. McIlrath is much bigger, but we'll be lucky if he turns into a taller version of Gudas (he probably will have a less developed offensive game, not that Gudas' is much).

Comparing Gudas and DZ is fruitless. It comes down to what you need; a mean, super physical, tough, shot blocking dman who van chip in a bit of offense or a legitimate puck moving, offense first guy. Tampa's all set on guys like DZ and want more guys like Gudas. Tampa would probably love to add Girardi without moving Gudas. They're looking for a more defense first type. They're not gonna move one whose young, cheap and has upside.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

bern, did Stepan spit in your face or something? I can't remember one trade proposal that you had that didn't include him. Like even last year when he was amazing.

I think everyone on the current roster was included on the last post. I don't think he has anything against Step.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Let me guess. By Thursday's game, Del Zotto will still be a Ranger

I"m gonna guess there will be snow on the ground tomorrow.

These are fun.

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

I"m gonna guess there will be snow on the ground tomorrow.

These are fun.

While we're at it I'm gonna guess this team makes the playoffs and gets crushed in the first round, then signs Cally and Girardi to long term deals. YOLO!

 

[theFiGS]

Thanks my good man.

Trying to ascertain if it is worth moving Stepan or not, based on the return, which is still being determined at my value of thread.

I am extremely confident Zuc can take over for Stepan, no prob, and the change to C would help him defensively.

The faster we mesh Kreider w/Miller on a speed line, the faster we get over the growing pains and that becomes ASS KICKING for us.

Brassard, also, did well filling in for Stepan when the spotlight was on.


But I believe the X factor is what would Stepan return?
Want to get an honest, definitive answer there.

No sense in moving him for cheap.

I believe at least on that, we can all agree.

Have to get back to you on another deal.

Do you joke around when you post these kind of comments or do these things really go through your head? Like where do you get zucc who's played wing forever can play center? It's frustrating even to think you could believe these things. Zucc is a second or 3rd line RW and stepan is a 2C, out biggest whole in this organization is a playmaking superstar 1C which is hard to get without tanking and getting a top 3 pick. Trading stepan is not the answer, we'd plug a hole and create an even bigger one. Only time I move stepan is for eberle or evander Kane and that's only if we sign a top 6 center and buy out Richards.
Kreider - stastny - Nash
Kane/eberle - brass - Callahan
Hagelin - miller - zucc
Fast - lindberg - dorsett

I'm ok with that line up but it still leaves us weak down the middle unless brassard finally turns into who he's supposed to be. And NO people who read this, I don't wanna trade STEPAN

 

[RangerBoy]

EJ Hradek said on NHL Live yesterday he has heard rumblings about Callahan being traded. He hopes the Rangers sign Callahan because he likes Callahan's parents Mike and Donna but he knows its a business after Steve Mears brought the fact the Rangers have so many players to sign and have tough decisions to make. It was a fan twitter question segment and Callahan was one of the questions.

 

[Ola]

bern- Nice to see you back. I think those moves are hard to pull off.

 

[CapainCallyClutch]

EJ Hradek said on NHL Live yesterday he has heard rumblings about Callahan being traded. He hopes the Rangers sign Callahan because he likes Callahan's parents Mike and Donna but he knows its a business after Steve Mears brought the fact the Rangers have so many players to sign and have tough decisions to make. It was a fan twitter question segment and Callahan was one of the questions.

I'd love to see something like Callahan, Del Zotto and a decent pick for O'Rielly and Siemens but i know thats not happening

 

[Raspewtin]

If one of Callahan and Girardi are to be traded, it should be Callahan. Nash and Zucc have taken his spot in the top 6, and AV doesn't rely on him nearly as much special teams wise as Torts did, which diminishes his impact.

 

[Ail]

So, will you stand with me and agree that yes, we should take whatever playoff shot there is --- could always get lucky --- but, we need to go 2 steps back to go 7 forwards?
That we need bold moves?
Besides the obvious of not letting guys walk, we should trade for picks if a Brassard, for example commands a high enough fee. Then I don't care, give Yogan/Haley a shot if still we need to.

And most important, since we are keeping McD+ Kreider, can we move someone like Stepan?+ for a substantial return? Esp. since we can immediately use Zuc as a C, and not too eventually Miller as a C?

Bold moves? Absolutely. They have to be smart though. Is trading Stepan bold? As bold as it gets almost, but is it smart? They just don't have the depth to do it. Maybe Zucc can play C. His game is pretty complete, but he never has in his career. I don't see it as a viable option. Brassard, Miller, Lindberg, Boyle/Moore, that's not cuttng it. Unless you are packaging Stepan for a future star center or a 1st that will probably become one, and this still doesn't guarantee anything. They have to find another bold move to make, and one that has the depth to back it up. I'm not even a very big fan of Stepan, but moving him just goes beyong risk in to foolishness.

Either way bold moves are the only way this team ever lands a star center.

 

[GAGLine]

If one of Callahan and Girardi are to be traded, it should be Callahan. Nash and Zucc have taken his spot in the top 6, and AV doesn't rely on him nearly as much special teams wise as Torts did, which diminishes his impact.

The last 2 games, Cally has had the 2nd most ice time among forwards. In the 11 games since coming back from injury, Cally has played 191:17. In those same games, Nash has played 186:51 and Zucc 177:14.

Yeah, he doesn't play on the PP as much, but he still plays a lot on the PK and is still getting significant time at even strength. AV just rolls 4 lines more than Torts did, so the ice time is more spread out.

That's not to say that we shouldn't trade him, just that AV uses Cally a lot.

 

[Raspewtin]

The last 2 games, Cally has had the 2nd most ice time among forwards. In the 11 games since coming back from injury, Cally has played 191:17. In those same games, Nash has played 186:51 and Zucc 177:14.

Yeah, he doesn't play on the PP as much, but he still plays a lot on the PK and is still getting significant time at even strength. AV just rolls 4 lines more than Torts did, so the ice time is more spread out.

That's not to say that we shouldn't trade him, just that AV uses Cally a lot.

AV uses all of his forwards a lot. I know he likes to roll all four lines, but I'd rather he played his top two lines a little more than he does to be honest. Like giving the KSN line 20 minutes a game or so. Cally isn't as important to AV as he was to Torts though, where he would play 22 minutes a game, and be on the 1st PK and 1st PP unit.

 

[Ola]

Bold moves? Absolutely. They have to be smart though. Is trading Stepan bold? As bold as it gets almost, but is it smart? They just don't have the depth to do it. Maybe Zucc can play C. His game is pretty complete, but he never has in his career. I don't see it as a viable option. Brassard, Miller, Lindberg, Boyle/Moore, that's not cuttng it. Unless you are packaging Stepan for a future star center or a 1st that will probably become one, and this still doesn't guarantee anything. They have to find another bold move to make, and one that has the depth to back it up. I'm not even a very big fan of Stepan, but moving him just goes beyong risk in to foolishness.

Either way bold moves are the only way this team ever lands a star center.

Good pts but this just seem to be a year when nothing will get done.

Just listening to GMs, nobody seem to be thinking in terms of "if the price is right". You constantly here GMs proclaim that they are contemplating something, and hence could make player X or Y available whom happens to be way down on the ladder in that org. It just don't add up.

When I look around the league, I see a bunch of teams that could benefit from remodelling their line-up. Trading from an area of strength to an area of weakness. I 100% believe that continuity is important, as is building a home-grown core that can lead a team. But changing 1 or 2 or even 3 players over a 12 month period, that is no problem.

The fact that we are seing, in reality, no trades speaks for it self. You had the early July moves that were cap-dumps, more or less. You had the Versteeg trade and the Perron trade. Then the rest are minor league / 4th line moves or maintainance moves (M Talbot trade). The Vanek trade. The fact that we and Vancouver has made no trades also speak for it self. There is almost always some moves after you bring in a new coach with a diffrent philosopy.

Besidse McD I would just about make any player on this team available, in the right deal. A few guys probably have more value to us than for an acquiring team. But besides them, why not move Hags, Staal, Miller and co for a player with equal value in an area where we are weak. Just seems hard to pull off though.

 

[Leonardo87]

AV uses all of his forwards a lot. I know he likes to roll all four lines, but I'd rather he played his top two lines a little more than he does to be honest. Like giving the KSN line 20 minutes a game or so. Cally isn't as important to AV as he was to Torts though, where he would play 22 minutes a game, and be on the 1st PK and 1st PP unit.

Cally should be back on the PP, that 2nd unit has gotten very dry, and guys like Pouliot and Brassard are only give you so much for a certain time. Cally has a better PPG and GPG average than both of them. He is actually in the top 6 in terms of PPG average.

AV has used Cally in many situations, he should of used him when they were down by one. I think AV also regrets not using him last night when they were down by one and he pulled Talbot. Cally is going to crash the net and get more opportunities when rebounds happen.

He is also getting more ice time than most forwards.

 

[GAGLine]

AV uses all of his forwards a lot. I know he likes to roll all four lines, but I'd rather he played his top two lines a little more than he does to be honest. Like giving the KSN line 20 minutes a game or so. Cally isn't as important to AV as he was to Torts though, where he would play 22 minutes a game, and be on the 1st PK and 1st PP unit.

The fact remains that AV is giving Cally more time than the 2 players you say have replaced him. If Cally gets traded, it won't be because he isn't still useful to this team.

 

[Raspewtin]

The fact remains that AV is giving Cally more time than the 2 players you say have replaced him. If Cally gets traded, it won't be because he isn't still useful to this team.

Definitely not arguing that.

He's not being used in enough offensive situations to justify the money he's going to make, in my opinion. Intangibles only get you so far. He has 1:46 of powerplay time over the last four games, and all of that time came in one game. Zucc's drop off in time played is strange, but I wont exactly question it. If Callahan would take 4 million to resign, I wouldn't want to trade him.

 

[Ail]

Good pts but this just seem to be a year when nothing will get done.

Just listening to GMs, nobody seem to be thinking in terms of "if the price is right". You constantly here GMs proclaim that they are contemplating something, and hence could make player X or Y available whom happens to be way down on the ladder in that org. It just don't add up.

When I look around the league, I see a bunch of teams that could benefit from remodelling their line-up. Trading from an area of strength to an area of weakness. I 100% believe that continuity is important, as is building a home-grown core that can lead a team. But changing 1 or 2 or even 3 players over a 12 month period, that is no problem.

The fact that we are seing, in reality, no trades speaks for it self. You had the early July moves that were cap-dumps, more or less. You had the Versteeg trade and the Perron trade. Then the rest are minor league / 4th line moves or maintainance moves (M Talbot trade). The Vanek trade. The fact that we and Vancouver has made no trades also speak for it self. There is almost always some moves after you bring in a new coach with a diffrent philosopy.

Besidse McD I would just about make any player on this team available, in the right deal. A few guys probably have more value to us than for an acquiring team. But besides them, why not move Hags, Staal, Miller and co for a player with equal value in an area where we are weak. Just seems hard to pull off though.

Yeah just outside of some out of left field move, I agree this doesn't look like anything is getting done of significant value. I would also make anyone available outside of McD and Kreider for the right price. I think as teams start changing management and bringing in fresh ideas it will be harder to make the bold moves. Teams are realizing the importance of drafting, and building a core from within more than probably ever thanks to the cap. To build a perennial contender you have to keep most of your depth young and affordable. Pay the stars who are irreplaceable. Teams aren't so willing to part with young players anymore. Even a guy like Hags who is a glue guy tweener probably commands a hefty return.

Sather has this team behind the eightball because of his refusal to adjust to a changing league. It's been better lately but they still have a lot of work to do before this team becomes Chicago, Boston, or Anaheim.

 

[Leonardo87]

Definitely not arguing that.

He's not being used in enough offensive situations to justify the money he's going to make, in my opinion. Intangibles only get you so far. He has 1:46 of powerplay time over the last four games, and all of that time came in one game. Zucc's drop off in time played is strange, but I wont exactly question it. If Callahan would take 4 million to resign, I wouldn't want to trade him.

Fun Facts for you, last 3 times Cally was on the PP they scored a goal, and he even recorded an assist on one. So he is 3 for 3.

Cally will get back on the PP, he is one of the best on there, it is just a matter of time.

This is a fluke season, and you cannot judge him based on this season, but have to look at the last couple of seasons. He has at least another 5 good years in him in his prime.

 

[Raspewtin]

Fun Facts for you, last 3 times Cally was on the PP they scored a goal, and he even recorded an assist on one. So he is 3 for 3.

Cally will get back on the PP, he is one of the best on there, it is just a matter of time.

This is a fluke season, and you cannot judge him based on this season, but have to look at the last couple of seasons. He has at least another 5 good years in him in his prime.

I'm not arguing that he doesn't belong on the powerplay. I'm not arguing that he can't score.

I am arguing that one of the prime parts of his game is not being utilized by the coach currently. And we don't know if AV particularly wants him there.

 

[Fitzy]

The Hagelin-Richards-Callahan line has persisted not because they have good chemistry but because the other two top 9 lines have clicked and AV is reluctant to break them up.

 

[Trxjw]

If the team is playoff bound, they'll keep Callahan through the playoff push. They're just not going to trade him before the deadline, even if he's priced himself out of the Rangers comfort zone. They'll probably try and deal his rights at the draft or something for a mid round pick.

 

[offdacrossbar]

If the team is playoff bound, they'll keep Callahan through the playoff push. They're just not going to trade him before the deadline, even if he's priced himself out of the Rangers comfort zone. They'll probably try and deal his rights at the draft or something for a mid round pick.

i continue to struggle with the idea that he will be moved. although it makes sense payroll wise, i dont think this organization will do it.

i think he will take a hometown discount and sign a cap friendly deal to stay in ny and finish his career here. he'll anchor our 3rd line for a few more years.

just my gut feeling.

 

[ArPanet]

I won't be surprised if Richards is not amnestied this summer. Sather and Dolan didn't seem to care when Redden was wasted money.

 

[Son of Steinbrenner]

Definitely not arguing that.

He's not being used in enough offensive situations to justify the money he's going to make, in my opinion. Intangibles only get you so far. He has 1:46 of powerplay time over the last four games, and all of that time came in one game. Zucc's drop off in time played is strange, but I wont exactly question it. If Callahan would take 4 million to resign, I wouldn't want to trade him.

What if a team isn't willing to meet the Rangers asking price for Callahan?

 

[Son of Steinbrenner]

If the team is playoff bound, they'll keep Callahan through the playoff push. They're just not going to trade him before the deadline, even if he's priced himself out of the Rangers comfort zone. They'll probably try and deal his rights at the draft or something for a mid round pick.

That's exactly my point but I think some fans would trade him for anything.