Speculation: Trade Thread Part XII

[Son of Steinbrenner]

Yes and I think that is where they stand until at least the deadline. It would be stupid of them to not at least wait until the deadline and hear all offers for both Callahan and Girardi. Teams get desperate.

So what if the Ranges can't find a team willing to meet the asking price?

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

The Rangers went down the road with the Avs on ROR last year. They wanted Stepan plus. Then it was DZ,Kreider and Miller or a #1. Edmonton wants Kreider for Yakupov. Jim Matheson wrote that in October. Messier loves him. Who does he work for? The Rangers don't many assets to deal besides their D and rentals. Anyone bringing up adding assets for the rentals and then having the players to trade to get a top player is met with disdain.

Yup, everybody wants Kreider, MCD, miller, Stepan, etc. and we want their version of those players. We either gotta find the mortgage the future GM or the dummy at the table for something to work this year, esp since a lot of teams are at the cap limits. Is Gainey working somewhere? May be a good place to start.

 

[haveandare]

The point was about takng risks. Not about timing and depth. It was still a huge risk to trade those players. You have to take risks to win. In fact the risks taken in '94 may have helped win their last Cup.

Trading for Conolly is an example of a risk it doesn't matter the price or when. This team doesn't have the depth to continue playing it safe or riding things out.

Yes, but risk depends on timing and depth in this case. For example, trading Crosby is a big risk if the other centers a team has behind him are, I don't know, Stepan and Boyle, or equivalent players. Trading Crosby is a lesser risk if a team has Malkin and Staal in line behind him.

It was a risk for Boston to trade those players because they could have, and maybe now have, become better than the guys that Boston was confident could take their spots. But, Boston still had players that they thought could take those spots and play competently. That's an entirely different level of risk than trading players who you have absolutely no replacement for in hopes that adding a winger with no NHL resume will boost scoring enough to offset losing a top pairing d-man.

I'd say the team doesn't have the depth on D to trade a top-pairing d-man to get a winger, which the team has a good amount of right now compared to other assets, including NHL d-men.

Risk is good if it can be justified. Risk for the sake of risk is silly.

 

[Raspewtin]

So if they are unsigned after the season what should the Rangers do?

What if Callahan or Girardi decide they want to wait until the season plays out before signing a contract?

What if as an organization the Rangers think the best thing to do is wait until after the season?

What do the Rangers do if a team isn't willing to meet the teams asking price for each player? Do you trade them for anything?

The risk of losing them for nothing isn't too great if another team isn't willing to meet the Rangers demands. Do you want to give the players away?

Can you at least acknowledge the likely scenario in all this...That the Rangers aren't satisfied with either the contract demands for the player OR the offers from other teams.

The bolded are definitely valid points. I understand that garbage offers might turn the Rangers off from dealing them, but like Ailurophile said teams get desperate at the deadline to upgrade. So I'm not very sure that'll be the case. One of the only times I have faith in Glen Sather is to get fair trade value.

Either way, losing Callahan and Girardi for nothing is potentially devastating, we get a big hole in RHD and nothing to show for it. Losing Callahan isn't as big a hole, as he's already lost he's behind Zuccarello and Nash on the depth chart.

It's about which risk you'd rather take. Resign them to potentially terrible deals after the season, trade them at the deadline, or lose them for nothing.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

So what if the Ranges can't find a team willing to meet the asking price?

True, we don't have to do anything. We are good traders more or less and We have good prospects coming in just not many of them and lotsa cap space, just the FA market looks horrible and we know what happens when Glen gets some dough in his pocket.

 

[Raspewtin]

Yup, everybody wants Kreider, MCD, miller, Stepan, etc. and we want their version of those players. We either gotta find the mortgage the future GM or the dummy at the table for something to work this year, esp since a lot of teams are at the cap limits. Is Gainey working somewhere? May be a good place to start.

The difference is that there's no reason to trade Kreider, McD, Miller, or Stepan. Because they create big holes if traded. Trading ROR doesn't create a gaping hole in COL's roster. Trading Yak doesn't create a gaping hole in their roster either. The players you try to trade for are players that could be mortgaged for a greater need.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Trading Cally and Girardi is just a fantasy. There will be many disappointed people here on this board come March 21 or so.

 

[Raspewtin]

Trading Cally and Girardi is just a fantasy. There will be many disapointed people here on this board come March 21 or so.

Trading Cally really isn't. He's behind the depth chart, with Zucc and Nash in front of him. He'll command 6 mill + on the open market. Money talks. There's been no progress at all with Callahan's contract per sources like Strang and Gross. Do you want to pay 6 million for a 3rd liner? I don't think Glen Sather does.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Trading Cally really isn't. He's behind the depth chart, with Zucc and Nash in front of him. He'll command 6 mill + on the open market. Money talks. There's been no progress at all with Callahan's contract per sources like Strang and Gross. Do you want to pay 6 million for a 3rd liner? I don't think Glen Sather does.

I don't. I'm sure he has no problem spending 6 million dollars of someone elses money.

Also, i'd tend to agree with you, had this 3rd liner who's behind on the depth chart didn't happen to be our beloved captain.

Not happening. As much as there is a desire on this board to retool and prepare for a sustained dominant period. We'll trade these players when they're completely over the hill. When they're the Dan Boyle's of the world. Boyle commands decent return even now, that's what we'll get when we're ready to trade them.

 

[Ail]

So what if the Ranges can't find a team willing to meet the asking price?

Re-sign them or let them walk if they think it is worth it to keep them just for a "Cup run."

I personally disagree with it but that's the options.

 

[Son of Steinbrenner]

The bolded are definitely valid points.

So you won't answer what you would do if they remain unsigned after the season. I'll ask again, what do you do?

I understand that garbage offers might turn the Rangers off from dealing them, but like Ailurophile said teams get desperate at the deadline to upgrade

What if teams aren't desperate? What if a team thinks "I'll sign him for just money after the season" or "Prospect X and Draft Pick is too much to spend." Are you for trading either player for just anything? Are the Rangers in a position in the standings that seems like the right thing to do?

So I'm not very sure that'll be the case. One of the only times I have faith in Glen Sather is to get fair trade value.

What if he can't get fair value?

Either way, losing Callahan and Girardi for nothing is potentially devastating, we get a big hole in RHD and nothing to show for it.

If Girardi is leaving a big hole in RHD why not just resign him?

Losing Callahan isn't as big a hole, as he's already lost he's behind Zuccarello and Nash on the depth chart.

While I agree Callahan has been passed on the depth chart it's possible other teams see the regression in his play that we have seen.

It's about which risk you'd rather take. Resign them to potentially terrible deals after the season, trade them at the deadline, or lose them for nothing.

Or trade the rights for the players after the season.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Haha we're going to keep the guys past the deadline AND trade young controllable assets for a run at the cup...

This board is gonna melt down.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

So you won't answer what you would do if they remain unsigned after the season. I'll ask again, what do you do?



What if teams aren't desperate? What if a team thinks "I'll sign him for just money after the season" or "Prospect X and Draft Pick is too much to spend." Are you for trading either player for just anything? Are the Rangers in a position in the standings that seems like the right thing to do?



What if he can't get fair value?
If Girardi is leaving a big hole in RHD why not just resign him?



While I agree Callahan has been passed on the depth chart it's possible other teams see the regression in his play that we have seen.



Or trade the rights for the players after the season.

Do you really live off the coast of Madagascar... is that island even inhabitable?

 

[Ail]

Haha we're going to keep the guys past the deadline AND trade young controllable assets for a run at the cup...

This board is gonna melt down.

If the second part is true, rightfully so.

 

[Matt4776]

Don't get me wrong- I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to trading for Yakupov, but I certainly wouldn't overpay for him, which is what it would likely take.

We already have Nash and Zucc on the RW. Callahan (if not traded), Miller, Kristo, Fast all behind him fighting for the third line spot. Miller may play center. We have much bigger needs elsewhere. Namely at center (I don't want Brass as my 2nd line center) and RD.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

If the second part is true, rightfully so.

This is like the time we traded Tyutin for Zherdev. I was sad to see Tyutin go but it meant we opened up a spot on the roster for a defender. I was nearly certain it was for Orpik. I was ELATED. And then the announcement came that we signed Redden and my heart sank.

I hope Sather doesn't toy with my emotions like that again. I'll be equally elated to hear we're getting a guy who will help now and for the future. Watch the rug get pulled out for under us as we see Sather trade Miller and a 1st for Dan Boyle.

 

[Son of Steinbrenner]

Do you really live off the coast of Madagascar... is that island even inhabitable?

No, I spent about 4 days on Tromelin Island about 8 years ago. The island isn't really inhabited. I was with someone who worked with Doctors without Boarders and that's how I ended up on Tromelin. About 80 people live on the Island and most of them are scientist studying turtles and boobies.! Get your mind out of the gutter people I'm talking about birds!

 

[haveandare]

This is like the time we traded Tyutin for Zherdev. I was sad to see Tyutin go but it meant we opened up a spot on the roster for a defender. I was nearly certain it was for Orpik. I was ELATED. And then the announcement came that we signed Redden and my heart sank.

I hope Sather doesn't toy with my emotions like that again. I'll be equally elated to hear we're getting a guy who will help now and for the future. Watch the rug get pulled out for under us as we see Sather trade Miller and a 1st for Dan Boyle.

I got nauseous just reading that.

 

[Konamic Ice Hockey]

Just throwing this out:
NYR
MDZ

TBL
Radko Gudas

Just a starting point, picks/prospects to even it out.

TBL gets Stamkos childhood friend to bring Toronto to him, to keep him from Toronto.
NYR get a tough RD that will balance out our six. He could really help Staal or J. Moore to be more O oriented.
We lose potential but gain what is needed right now. TBL lose a good RD but gain someone that has chemistry with SS.

 

[Raspewtin]

Haha we're going to keep the guys past the deadline AND trade young controllable assets for a run at the cup...

This board is gonna melt down.

Got that right.

 

[Raspewtin]

Just throwing this out:
NYR
MDZ

TBL
Radko Gudas

Just a starting point, picks/prospects to even it out.

TBL gets Stamkos childhood friend to bring Toronto to him, to keep him from Toronto.
NYR get a tough RD that will balance out our six. He could really help Staal or J. Moore to be more O oriented.
We lose potential but gain what is needed right now. TBL lose a good RD but gain someone that has chemistry with SS.

Tampa laughs and hangs up.

 

[Konamic Ice Hockey]

Tampa laughs and hangs up.

who do you think would need to be added?

 

[Raspewtin]

who do you think would need to be added?

It's not that we need to add. It's that Tampa has no reason to trade Gudas. They need Gudas, and players like him.

You have to realize that other teams have to have a reason to trade players we want.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Don't get me wrong- I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to trading for Yakupov, but I certainly wouldn't overpay for him, which is what it would likely take.

We already have Nash and Zucc on the RW. Callahan (if not traded), Miller, Kristo, Fast all behind him fighting for the third line spot. Miller may play center. We have much bigger needs elsewhere. Namely at center (I don't want Brass as my 2nd line center) and RD.

We have the need for a 1/2c. We have the need for a 2w. We have the need for a 3w. We have the need for some 4th liners.

We need a 4d. If we trade Staal we also need a 3d.

 

[Leonardo87]

Your point that we wont make this trade because we are surging is valid.

Thinking it's okay to deal with Girardi and Callahan if still unsigned after the season is absolutely not. If the deadline comes and neither are signed they should be traded. It's way too great of a risk to let them leave for nothing.

Callahan since back has been playing very well, some games excellent. He has 6 points(2 G, 4 A) in his last 9 games with a + 6 rating. He has been a big part of the Rangers surge.

Why would they want to trade any of their key pieces when they are playing very well and in a playoff spot?

Odds are Cally and Giradi will re-sign, so they bring negotiations into the off-season.