Speculation: Trade Thread Part XII

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Got that right.

Gonna be fun. But will be worth it if we the stars align and everything falls our way and Cally is holding up the cup at the end of the season (1% chance).

 

[Konamic Ice Hockey]

It's not that we need to add. It's that Tampa has no reason to trade Gudas. They need Gudas, and players like him.

You have to realize that other teams have to have a reason to trade players we want.

I think someone like MDZ with the connection he has to SS plus he has proven more in the NHL than Gudas at the same age, would be something they would listen to. MDZ is a good defenseman he is just a square peg in a round hole.

What about MDZ for Sustr and a 1st in 2015?

 

[Ola]

I know these are rhetorical questions and you won't like the answers, but the answer is.... keep the cap space until a legit FA or trade target comes available.

Flexibility is important. Fans don't want to hear that if their team is sitting on cap space, and for cheap teams who never spend it's a legit concern, but the Rangers aren't a cheap team.

Conversely, the Rangers are a team that habitually locks themselves into bad contracts. It might be nice to have the space to make a run at a franchise player, but 2 years from now.

It depends on whether you think you can make a legit Cup run with Cally and G now, what the odds are of that happening, etc.

I think I'd keep them both, but depending on how much they wanted, depending on what I could get back for them, and depending on whether I thought I could import a superstar down the road a bit if I don't pay Cally and G now, I might trade them.

But there are no UFAs available in 2 years. In 3 years? Everyone will have cap-space. Then when we in 2017 outbid everyone for the next top UFA available, we will have to give him time to adopt to NY. Or will we in 2018 talk about buying that guy out like we done with every other UFA.

I don't really disagree with you in principle. All I am saying is that it's darn easy to point at our players and claim that they don't have it. It's harder to replace them. It's harder to see actual gains with dumping someone.

 

[Raspewtin]

I think someone like MDZ with the connection he has to SS plus he has proven more in the NHL than Gudas at the same age, would be something they would listen to. MDZ is a good defenseman he is just a square peg in a round hole.

What about MDZ for Sustr and a 1st in 2015?

NHL friendships really have nothing to do with anything.

MDZ isn't needed by Tampa. They have Carle and Hedman who provde the same exact thing MDZ does.

Tampa doesn't do that either.

 

[bernmeister]

What, I was so busy and you guys almost went an entire tread thread w/o a single post from me!??!

 

[Ail]

What, I was so busy and you guys almost went an entire tread thread w/o a single post from me!??!

What do you have for us, Bern?

What's the deal of the week?

 

[ArPanet]

Friedman
e."

15. On to Ryan O'Reilly. The sense is teams would be pretty shocked if the Colorado Avalanche traded him during the season. Colorado's got a good thing going and O'Reilly is head coach Patrick Roy's kind of player and personality. He's also one of the forwards - along with Matt Duchene, Gabriel Landeskog, Pierre-Alexandre Parenteau and Paul Stastny - Roy's usage indicates he trusts most in the defensive zone against the best competition.

16. For that reason, the logical move is to see how things go in the playoffs and at the bargaining table. The Avalanche must qualify O'Reilly at $6.5 million, but there's time to let that play out. I did check in with one team that asked about him last year. The GM's response? "They wanted too much then and, the way he's playing, it's not getting any cheaper now.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports-content/ho...g-wrong-with-starting-fourth-line-in-nhl.html

 

[Vitto79]

McGinn in Colorados name on trade board again . Maybe a Boyle package?

 

[Konamic Ice Hockey]

NHL friendships really have nothing to do with anything.

MDZ isn't needed by Tampa. They have Carle and Hedman who provde the same exact thing MDZ does.

Tampa doesn't do that either.

Are you a fan that thinks MDZ sucks? Because if so I can't trust your judgement. Just like all the fans that hated Rozi.
If I was SS and Stevie Y brought in a childhood friend and someone I have on the ice chemistry(that is also a solid NHL player), I would feel that this team will do anything to make me feel at home so I can finish my career here.
McD would have played his senior year if not for Stepan talking him into joining the NYR or Parise and Suter or the Staals. Parise might still be on the NJD if Lou brought in a friend of Zacks. Jagr was not happy after his good friend was let go by Glen and it ultimately lead to his leaving. It happens and probably more than we know.
TBL is not a team players are dying to play for. The money he will get in 2016 is all gonna be about the same from each team(other then 8 years that TBL can/should/will do), so every little way you can show appreciation that is not stupid, I think you do and hope he stays.

 

[Staxgod90]

Wondering if this trade would work..

A signed Callahan, DZ, and maybe a pick to Colorado for ROR and Barrie.

Would have Stepan and ROR as our top two centers and we get another defenseman with upside in the organization

Although it would be unlikely ROR is moved like previously stated

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

The difference is that there's no reason to trade Kreider, McD, Miller, or Stepan. Because they create big holes if traded. Trading ROR doesn't create a gaping hole in COL's roster. Trading Yak doesn't create a gaping hole in their roster either. The players you try to trade for are players that could be mortgaged for a greater need.

I never suggested that we trade those guys but thanks for the hole insight.

 

[Raspewtin]

Are you a fan that thinks MDZ sucks? Because if so I can't trust your judgement. Just like all the fans that hated Rozi.
If I was SS and Stevie Y brought in a childhood friend and someone I have on the ice chemistry(that is also a solid NHL player), I would feel that this team will do anything to make me feel at home so I can finish my career here.
McD would have played his senior year if not for Stepan talking him into joining the NYR or Parise and Suter or the Staals. Parise might still be on the NJD if Lou brought in a friend of Zacks. Jagr was not happy after his good friend was let go by Glen and it ultimately lead to his leaving. It happens and probably more than we know.
TBL is not a team players are dying to play for. The money he will get in 2016 is all gonna be about the same from each team(other then 8 years that TBL can/should/will do), so every little way you can show appreciation that is not stupid, I think you do and hope he stays.

I'm actually a huge MDZ defender, but thanks for your stupid generalization.

 

[Konamic Ice Hockey]

Wondering if this trade would work..

A signed Callahan, DZ, and maybe a pick to Colorado for ROR and Barrie.

Would have Stepan and ROR as our top two centers and we get another defenseman with upside in the organization

Although it would be unlikely ROR is moved like previously stated

Don't think that will work, replace ROR with Stastny and COL might bite. But that does little for the rangers unless PS is also signed.
ROR needs $6.5 next year do you want to give him $6.5? I do not. Hope he is not qualified by COL and sign him as a UFA

 

[Staxgod90]

Don't think that will work, replace ROR with Stastny and COL might bite. But that does little for the rangers unless PS is also signed.
ROR needs $6.5 next year do you want to give him $6.5? I do not. Hope he is not qualified by COL and sign him as a UFA

If rather pay that to ROR than pay that to Callahn tbh but the third piece could be the difference between Statsny and ROR

 

[bernmeister]

What do you have for us, Bern?

What's the deal of the week?

Thanks my good man.

Trying to ascertain if it is worth moving Stepan or not, based on the return, which is still being determined at my value of thread.

I am extremely confident Zuc can take over for Stepan, no prob, and the change to C would help him defensively.

The faster we mesh Kreider w/Miller on a speed line, the faster we get over the growing pains and that becomes ASS KICKING for us.

Brassard, also, did well filling in for Stepan when the spotlight was on.


But I believe the X factor is what would Stepan return?
Want to get an honest, definitive answer there.

No sense in moving him for cheap.

I believe at least on that, we can all agree.

Have to get back to you on another deal.

 

[bernmeister]

Something big will happen this summer. It always happens. Maybe it will be Sather is turning it over to Gorton (remains as President, of course). Or a trade out of nowhere, maybe involving Stepan, since a discussion about his long term prospects will be undertaken. If Stepan doesn't take his playoff performance to another level while Brassard again is way better then coupled with that holdout which Sather hates, Stepan could be in the mix and why not, is he really ever going to be a 5.5M or more player for any team?

A Stepan++ for Ryan O'Reilly + might still appeal to Colorado in the summer. Saving at least 2.5M next year and a several M more after until Stepan reaches UFA might be in Colorado's thinking. Of course this is just speculation but Sather had no problem trading Dubinsky and if he thinks Stepan is plateauing at where he is now, I think Sather won't hesitate.

Tl;dr Sather will do something splashy this summer, he always does.

Ps Girard and Callahan will both be here next year.

Just speculating...

Interesting, feel free to mention on the "value of" Stepan thread.

I'm not sure ROR and his high cap are the way to go though.

 

[bernmeister]

Never said they were going to suck bad enough for a 1st overall, but if they do decide to stay out of FA and gamble on prospects and younger guys, perhaps they struggle enough for a top 10-15. Move up in the draft if they can and get a C who has star potential. They are never going to get one in FA. Again if they want to change things up (they don't) and get younger next year is a good year to try. It's not a rebuild, it's a lack of committing to win now when you have an almost zero chance of winning now. Maybe you struggle for on year so you get even better the next. One season. Not 5. Glen Sather is never going to rebuild. Even when faced with Henrik's retirement and I'm not totally convinced he won't be around for that. If he isn't he is paving the way for the next guy to have a mess to clean. It's so obvious he doesn't want to be the guy remembered for a decade and a half of mediocrity and since he is running out of time he'll try whatever desperate stupid moves he can to hope everything comes together magically.

You keep referring to Boston being in a similar position before their Cup. There is nothing similar about it. Will Glen Sather make a Kessel trade to set this team up for the next 5-10 years? Would he trade Kreider or Stepan, a ballsy move, for 2 1sts? Of course not. Also if you are going to try to draw parallels of young guys coming out of nowhere, then you can make an even better argument to trade Callahan because surely a prospect like Kristo will "come out of nowhere" and replace him.

Just stop about Anaheim. They lost Shultz and they're the class of the league. The Rangers were gifted McDonagh and can get almost any FA, yet they are a middling team in a weak division. Where is this team's Perry and Getzlaf? They need a Getzlaf and they aren't getting him through FA.

We've been patient. Three to four years? How about 13? Thirteen years of the same **** every season. The only reason we are going to wait 5 more is because we have to thanks to Glen Sather. Also, again, this team doesn't need a rebuild. You keep defaulting to moving Callahan/Girardi as a rebuild. That's not a rebuild. They need to take some risks. Re-sign Girardi. Okay fine because he is tough to replace right away. Deal Callahan. At least attempt to fill some glaring weaknesses in the new team/system. Shaving mediocre players or those not key to the success of this system and bringing in those who are is an improvement for the future. You can play the hand your dealt and hope your opponent is bluffing but if you go all-in on that hand you're a fool.

(Some of) You guys won't let me trade Stepan ++ for a significant upgrade.
Who?
I'm trying to constructively contribute by finding that out.

 

[Konamic Ice Hockey]

I'm actually a huge MDZ defender, but thanks for your stupid generalization.

I'm happy you like MDZ, I do too, if he was a RD I would not trade him for Gudas. I have only seen RG like 10 times, I guessing you have seen more of him then me. Maybe you see something more than me. I see a D solid on his skates makes smart easy plays, will get better but will not turn into much more then what he is. Gets his points because of the team he is on more then him making O plays. Nothing special but solid. Like a Mike Sauer(I think Sauer was better). To me in a vacuum that is not worth MDZ but it is needed more then MDZ.

Just wanted to know who I'm talking to. Many fans say some stupid things about very solid NYR players. It is not a stupid generalization, it is a common problem of NYR fans. More than I would like to admit but most rangers fans are sports fans and not people that grew up playing/coaching hockey and because of that do not understand what is expected of 75% of nhl players. Also many think every player should be an all-star and if not they are a bum.
Dont get me wrong I lived in bay area in California and those fans(SJS) are incredibly uneducated about hockey. I also lived in TX and Stars fans also did not know much but they knew they did not know much. Stars fans easier to around at a game then the Sharks. NYR fans know more then either but now I'm around VAN fans and there is no contest.

 

[haveandare]

(Some of) You guys won't let me trade Stepan ++ for a significant upgrade.
Who?
I'm trying to constructively contribute by finding that out.

Center is by far the team's biggest weakness. I think it'd be silly to trade the only top 6 center the team has to get another top 6 center. They need two top 6 guys. Trade from a weakness to address that same weakness isn't going to solve the problem.

 

[bernmeister]

Both lost to the superior team. The Devils got crushed.

Maybe by some stroke of luck the Rangers make it out of the East, okay, but they will be destroyed in the SCF.

This team as it stands is not a Cup contender. It's just not, sorry.

So, will you stand with me and agree that yes, we should take whatever playoff shot there is --- could always get lucky --- but, we need to go 2 steps back to go 7 forwards?
That we need bold moves?
Besides the obvious of not letting guys walk, we should trade for picks if a Brassard, for example commands a high enough fee. Then I don't care, give Yogan/Haley a shot if still we need to.

And most important, since we are keeping McD+ Kreider, can we move someone like Stepan?+ for a substantial return? Esp. since we can immediately use Zuc as a C, and not too eventually Miller as a C?

 

[bernmeister]

Center is by far the team's biggest weakness. I think it'd be silly to trade the only top 6 center the team has to get another top 6 center. They need two top 6 guys. Trade from a weakness to address that same weakness isn't going to solve the problem.

You are not looking ahead.
Zuc can already do Stepan's job, and better. He just needs the chance.
It is clear he has all the skills. Just needs to prove it in the pivot.

That takes care of immediacy, even though, we should be more concerned about building.

And again, a lot of people look good with Kreider.
Miller will make Kreider even better, cause only those 2 are fast enough (Hags not a C).

If you could be open minded about taking the hit now, Miller is very smart and dedicated. With custom attention and a lot of work, we could cram that process. have him in BASIC up to speed before/by playoffs. Then ready to TOTALLY ASS KICK next year.
But ya gotta do that NOW, not middle of next year, and waste another season.

In the mean time, Stepan is not awesome.
He is genuinely good, genuinely productive, genuinely with value.

Let's get the right value and make a deal.

If Nash would go and Preds would be amenable to something around
Callahan + Stepan + Nash +
for
Seth Jones + Shea Webber+

I would do that, then flip Weber + Staal + Girardi + to the AVs
for
MacKinnon + Siemens +

adds ons (incl deadwood) both deals to address, cap, head count etc.

Yeah, you gave COL the strong inside on the Cup, but
You move a chunk of guys , deal with some of the re-sign issues
get younger
and add a couple of cornerstones w/Kreider + McD.

This is how you do it. IMO.
And if you can't make 1 or 2 huge deals, then you are forced to do it step by step, several smaller deals.

But that is how it gets done.

Joe Pesci got nothin on my ass!

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

Let me guess. By Thursday's game, Del Zotto will still be a Ranger

 

[haveandare]

You are not looking ahead.
Zuc can already do Stepan's job, and better. He just needs the chance.
It is clear he has all the skills. Just needs to prove it in the pivot.

That takes care of immediacy, even though, we should be more concerned about building.

And again, a lot of people look good with Kreider.
Miller will make Kreider even better, cause only those 2 are fast enough (Hags not a C).

If you could be open minded about taking the hit now, Miller is very smart and dedicated. With custom attention and a lot of work, we could cram that process. have him in BASIC up to speed before/by playoffs. Then ready to TOTALLY ASS KICK next year.
But ya gotta do that NOW, not middle of next year, and waste another season.

In the mean time, Stepan is not awesome.
He is genuinely good, genuinely productive, genuinely with value.

Let's get the right value and make a deal.

If Nash would go and Preds would be amenable to something around
Callahan + Stepan + Nash +
for
Seth Jones + Shea Webber+

I would do that, then flip Weber + Staal + Girardi + to the AVs
for
MacKinnon + Siemens +

adds ons (incl deadwood) both deals to address, cap, head count etc.

Yeah, you gave COL the strong inside on the Cup, but
You move a chunk of guys , deal with some of the re-sign issues
get younger
and add a couple of cornerstones w/Kreider + McD.

This is how you do it. IMO.
And if you can't make 1 or 2 huge deals, then you are forced to do it step by step, several smaller deals.

But that is how it gets done.

Joe Pesci got nothin on my ass!

Maybe so. I'd argue that you're looking too far ahead and taking some of your opinions as stone cold facts and running with them.

You think Zucc can do Stepan's job, and better, and maybe he can, but to say he can for sure is to sell an opinion as a fact. He has never, ever played center in the NHL. Plus, if he takes Step's job, another hole is introduced on RW.

As for the Miller and Kreider and speed thing...I've said before that I just don't see this speed in Miller's game. You do, and that's fine, people disagree. I don't think he's ready for the NHL period right now, let alone for a top 6 center spot. I also don't think that ~40 games is enough to bring him from not suited for the league to a kick ass top 6 center.

Those other deals completely decimate a forward core that needs to be added to, not subtracted from. Mackinnon, as good as he is, is not ever going to replace three top 6 players in Callahan, Stepan and Nash. I'm not sure anybody save for maybe Crosby could do something like that.

I like your enthusiasm and creativity, I just don't agree here. This team doesn't need a complete tear down like that. They need to find a way to get a 1/2 C and a d-man who can provide offense and not embarrass himself in his own zone. Maybe look into what can be done trading Cally, MDZ, maybe Moore, picks after the first two rounds, and prospects. They don't need elite players in these roles, though one at center wouldn't hurt, they just need guys who can play those roles without being in over their heads.

 

[Punxrocknyc19*]

Let me guess. By Thursday's game, Del Zotto will still be a Ranger

by July 4 he will still be a Ranger.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

bern, did Stepan spit in your face or something? I can't remember one trade proposal that you had that didn't include him. Like even last year when he was amazing.