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But the team isn't out of a playoff spot now. They are playing well. It's not terrible asset management to give your team the best chance to win in the playoffs. I'm not saying trade prospects or picks, I'm saying lets see how this season plays out. That's a bad thing?
I'd love to resign both but I have no control over the situation. You don't have the maximize the return if you think the team has a legit chance for a playoff run. I dont' know what Sather thinks he could think this team sucks and trade everybody regardless of the team turning it around.
I don't want to be in the anything can happen crowd. Mostly because, being a part of that crowd gives the impression that I'm an optimist and not a realist and implies that I don't have future foresight of the direction this organization should take.
But, being as tough of a critic on this team as I am... you're being a little tough on them right now. I think they deserve more credit than a team that has achieved success by chance. I think they deserve less credit than people thinking they have legitimate chances for the cup.
That being said, plenty of teams have made it to the cup, if not won it, when people believed they weren't worthy of it. Please don't ask me to investigate, I just don't have it in me tonight. I'm assuming my above statement is right... and also it fits my argument
LeetchisGod
This is a bad hockey team.
Ail
Based and Rangerspilled.
Fair enough. I understand seeing how it plays out, or at least wanting to.
JimmyG89
Registered User
- May 1, 2010
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This team should make moves like the Sharks did last season. Get something for Boyle. Moore can hold his own on the 4th line C spot. He is a UFA and could net us a pick or middle prospect for one of those west teams looking for forward depth and a PK guy. Adds something to our prospect system either right away or at next draft.
Trading Del Zotto for a RHD who is a vet and another piece. It is possible to net the 3rd line winger and top 4 or bottom par right handed guy for DZ. Need to be creative. You are allowed to add and subtract from the roster for the long hual. If the Sens are still intested in DZ, could still get a Wiercoch and Greening return for him. While it may not be Niskanen and Neal, it would add depth up front with speed and size. He could slot into the bottom 6 well. Wiercoch would fill more of the bottom pair, but would also bring a guy who is a right handed shot who can bring it from the blueline. There are not that many right handed guys for the blueline who will be available.
Is John Moore someone we could look to move instead of DZ? He would be easier to trade for another team since we would not be asking for as much, is an RFA and would cost less than DZ. Instead of trying to find someone to give us a forward and D for DZ, why not a RHD/LHD swap with Moore and another team?
Getting rid of Callahan leaves a lot of holes. Even if the guy has 5 years of this physical play let him use it up with the team he started, last night proved why he is our best PK'er, he is creating a lot more chances and setting up more plays under AV, and has been an asset on both sides of the ice. AV has made him clock over 20 mins in some games, like against Chicago, it shows a trust he has, and a GM is not going to trade someone who is clicking and producing offense, and making a difference, it's absurd. Negotiations will continue until both parties can come to a fair deal.
Also, Callahan is not a 3rd liner, he has been playing with the Rangers top center and they are producing on the top or 2nd line now.
Cally has good hands and is great in front of the net. AV has to keep him on the PP, the last two times he was on a PP unit they scored. He also made some key plays there also, and had an assist on a 3rd PP goal against Columbus. So Cally is 3 for 3 on the PP since being back to action.
Writers are going to do anything to get attention. Of course anyone on that team can be traded for the right person. Sure would trade Nash, Stepan, and Kreider for Sidney Crosby in a heartbeat.
It drives me crazy, the team is playing the best all season, Callahan is playing very well under AV now, and I'm just confused to why you want to trade those away.
Barnaby
Registered User
The Rangers have been rumored to be in on Boyle for years - it hasn't happened yet, and I doubt it happens now
The Gloaming
23
Weren't the rangers rumored to be on Clowe for a few years?
I'm pissed about that deal, and I'd be pissed if we got Boyle.
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
Something to keep in mind. There is the ability to sign and trade that didn't exist in the past CBA. Conceivably, after the season, the Rangers could allow Girardi or Callahan to negotiate an 8-year deal with another team, sign that contract themselves, then deal it to said team (8 years is only allowed on resigns). We haven't seen this happen yet, but it could.
If someone wants one of these guys for that long, they'd give a good return on a trade. It's not likely of course. Just a thought to throw out there.
If someone wants one of these guys for that long, they'd give a good return on a trade. It's not likely of course. Just a thought to throw out there.
You can also frontload a deal by quite much with signing bonuses.
I am not sure if it can be pulled off though. The player would of course have to be unboard, and it has not happend yet in the NHL at least.
Re anything can happen. Anything can't happen to any team. With many teams, durability is a huge issue. They start to break down late in the 1st round, and if they get passed that they become a road-kill in the second round. Especially teams with a older but in the regular season performing top line backed up by questionable depth.
Of course anything can happen to us. The top teams could get injuries. Just like Toronto could have beaten Boston last year, I wouldn't rule out that a Columbus could just get into that low-scoring mode and send Boston packing. That a Philly team once again could get to Pittsburgh. That a Detroit or Washington team could get to Pittsburgh. There is a bunch of scenarios, a team much better than us could get several injuries and we could face a depleted version of that team in later rounds.
I am not saying that you always should let decisions be impacted by an anything can happen thinking.
Of course anything can happen to us. The top teams could get injuries. Just like Toronto could have beaten Boston last year, I wouldn't rule out that a Columbus could just get into that low-scoring mode and send Boston packing. That a Philly team once again could get to Pittsburgh. That a Detroit or Washington team could get to Pittsburgh. There is a bunch of scenarios, a team much better than us could get several injuries and we could face a depleted version of that team in later rounds.
I am not saying that you always should let decisions be impacted by an anything can happen thinking.
So we can keep Cally and G and pray.
Or we can dump them and pray a helluva lot harder.
Or? Whats the plan? Get a player or two that don't make that much sense and a late 1st or two. Take a step back. What are we supposed to do with the cap-space? Sign UFA's? What UFAs? When? When are we supposed to compete?
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I won't do Callahan at 6 million per for 5-7 years
but I would consider 7 per for 2 years
I won't do Girardi at 6.5 million per for 5-7 years
but I would consider 7 per for 2 years
I would also consider moving both players this season if we are getting an Amonte back (like we traded to win the cup)
No way am I comparing Noonan and Matteau to Cally/Danny G but a Amonte + pick + a prospect for Danny G / Callahan works for me.
but I would consider 7 per for 2 years
I won't do Girardi at 6.5 million per for 5-7 years
but I would consider 7 per for 2 years
I would also consider moving both players this season if we are getting an Amonte back (like we traded to win the cup)
No way am I comparing Noonan and Matteau to Cally/Danny G but a Amonte + pick + a prospect for Danny G / Callahan works for me.
Getting rid of Callahan leaves a lot of holes. Even if the guy has 5 years of this physical play let him use it up with the team he started, last night proved why he is our best PK'er, he is creating a lot more chances and setting up more plays under AV, and has been an asset on both sides of the ice. AV has made him clock over 20 mins in some games, like against Chicago, it shows a trust he has, and a GM is not going to trade someone who is clicking and producing offense, and making a difference, it's absurd. Negotiations will continue until both parties can come to a fair deal.
Also, Callahan is not a 3rd liner, he has been playing with the Rangers top center and they are producing on the top or 2nd line now.
Cally has good hands and is great in front of the net. AV has to keep him on the PP, the last two times he was on a PP unit they scored. He also made some key plays there also, and had an assist on a 3rd PP goal against Columbus. So Cally is 3 for 3 on the PP since being back to action.
Writers are going to do anything to get attention. Of course anyone on that team can be traded for the right person. Sure would trade Nash, Stepan, and Kreider for Sidney Crosby in a heartbeat.
It drives me crazy, the team is playing the best all season, Callahan is playing very well under AV now, and I'm just confused to why you want to trade those away.
Cause people on these boards are insane sometimes. Don't worry the nyr are not going to deal their captain and heart and soul. He will get resigned in time
Ail
Based and Rangerspilled.
I don't like my plan for the future to involve praying.
I wouldn't spend any of the money on UFAs unless I was absolutely 100% I did not have the depth to replace that position. Brad Richards will be replaced by JT Miller, and although he may not put up the points, I think he can bring a similar presence at C next year. Pay Boyle, unless for some reason they really feel Lindberg or Moore are good enough for 4C. I don't like Brassard, but they have to pay him or get a UFA. I hear Stastny all the time but I like the idea of giving him a long contract about as much as giving one to Callahan. So, not at all. Pay Stralman. They are keeping Girardi. Callahan can be replaced with whatever assets come back in his trade, or moving MDZ if they finally decide to do that. Try to move up in the draft.
It's not a plan that will be amazing for next season, but it will start looking a lot better by 2015. If there was going to be a year to suck, it would be next year. Add a guy like Eichel.
RangerBoy
Dolan sucks!!!
Boyle suffered a bad concussion
http://www.mercurynews.com/sharks/c...boyle-reveals-details-about-lingering-effects
http://www.mercurynews.com/sharks/c...boyle-reveals-details-about-lingering-effects
The bolded part first, the thing is, we -- cannot -- suck that much in 2015. How do we do it? Its not an out-option you have. Ok, lets snitch the 1st overall this year. And even if you tried, all of a sudden you end up getting like a 6th pick overall. And we can't try, unless we start to unload McD and co. I don't know how to put it, its just not physcailly possible to get a 1st overall or two in the coming years. Its not an option we have. We are too good, even if you dump all the dumpable players.
As to the other parts of your post, all you do is shaving off less than perfect players. You know. That won't make us better. Right? It reminds me of when we had Straka-Nyls-JJ. They wouldn't shoot the puck, many wanted to get rid of them just to bring in someone that would shoot the puck. When we did just that, we had a few of our most boring years ever with a team that had nothing (Dawes-Gomez-Näslund as as first line, yeah they would fire the puck, but...). You may like to pray or not to pray, but if you only make the roster worse we won't get better. I can tell you that. We won't get 1st overall picks either.
The timing for us to rebuild thourghly might come in around 5 years if we don't do really well the coming 5 years. Our core won't be 25-30, but 30-35. Hank can be moved to a contender for a lost go at it, he will even be half cheap when the cap is 100m... Kids that has followed this team for 3-4 years say that they are paitient and want a rebuild now because they can stand it. As long as they instantly get a 1st overall pick to drool over. The patient route is to go for it now, and then rebuild when we have conditions to rebuild in. Truth to be told. That is really the only option.
I also don't think things are as gray as many think that they are. The competition in this league isn't as tough as many believe. 20 teams more or less can't compete unless they get an unbeliveable roster through the draft because they just aren't attractive. Can't get free-agents because they have no money or its cold or whatever. Wifes don't like them... I mean it has an impact, a Anaheim loosing Schultz to EDM. I don't think this Ana team got what it takes, Schultz would have helped... We have McD, Brassard, Moore and co because we could sign UFAs. The marginals are small and its hard to compete for these teams. Some teams will shoot themselves in the foot, like Philly is doing for example.
Go back a few years and look at Boston. They weren't at all in any better position than we are a few years before their Cup. Over a few years, Bergeron, Marchand, Lucic, Krejci and co comes out of nowhere. A bunch of their players excells on a team that is doing the right things, playing the right well. Look at McD for us in NY after just half a season with a coach that lets him move the puck.
Sometimes you just goota player the hand you are dealt.
Steve Kournianos
@thedraftanalyst
The Rangers are not contenders because of a two week streak. They still have holes. The only way they get back to the CF is if they get extremely lucky, which is what you don't want long term.
Screw luck. How about sustained dominance. Yeah, not likely.
Screw luck. How about sustained dominance. Yeah, not likely.
Lindberg Cheese
Registered User
Girardis stock just went up. All good pro and con points in the posts. I guess things will be clearer in the next month. I was all for trading Boyle and MDZ until I realized that Ola was right, you need playoff depth. Having Moore and Boyle on the 4th gives us good face off match ups in the D zone which becomes key in the playoffs. A lot of contracts coming off the books next year, cap gong up, horrible FAs, our options will be limited and continue to build from within which isn't a bad thing.
Yeah I hope so, especially since he has been playing very well, and is adjusting very well to AV's system. If Cally does not block shots and continues to do the other things he won't get hurt and he'll be a major offensive asset on this team.
I just think because the media expected him to get re-signed by now that the Rangers want to walk away from him and they are blowing things out of proportion with their articles and blogs, that is far from the case. Negotiations can take time and both parties have to come to a compromise.
Another big thing, AV trusts Cally, made him log in over 20 mins against the Blackhawks in a 1 goal game to give you one example.
Ail
Based and Rangerspilled.
Never said they were going to suck bad enough for a 1st overall, but if they do decide to stay out of FA and gamble on prospects and younger guys, perhaps they struggle enough for a top 10-15. Move up in the draft if they can and get a C who has star potential. They are never going to get one in FA. Again if they want to change things up (they don't) and get younger next year is a good year to try. It's not a rebuild, it's a lack of committing to win now when you have an almost zero chance of winning now. Maybe you struggle for on year so you get even better the next. One season. Not 5. Glen Sather is never going to rebuild. Even when faced with Henrik's retirement and I'm not totally convinced he won't be around for that. If he isn't he is paving the way for the next guy to have a mess to clean. It's so obvious he doesn't want to be the guy remembered for a decade and a half of mediocrity and since he is running out of time he'll try whatever desperate stupid moves he can to hope everything comes together magically.
You keep referring to Boston being in a similar position before their Cup. There is nothing similar about it. Will Glen Sather make a Kessel trade to set this team up for the next 5-10 years? Would he trade Kreider or Stepan, a ballsy move, for 2 1sts? Of course not. Also if you are going to try to draw parallels of young guys coming out of nowhere, then you can make an even better argument to trade Callahan because surely a prospect like Kristo will "come out of nowhere" and replace him.
Just stop about Anaheim. They lost Shultz and they're the class of the league. The Rangers were gifted McDonagh and can get almost any FA, yet they are a middling team in a weak division. Where is this team's Perry and Getzlaf? They need a Getzlaf and they aren't getting him through FA.
We've been patient. Three to four years? How about 13? Thirteen years of the same **** every season. The only reason we are going to wait 5 more is because we have to thanks to Glen Sather. Also, again, this team doesn't need a rebuild. You keep defaulting to moving Callahan/Girardi as a rebuild. That's not a rebuild. They need to take some risks. Re-sign Girardi. Okay fine because he is tough to replace right away. Deal Callahan. At least attempt to fill some glaring weaknesses in the new team/system. Shaving mediocre players or those not key to the success of this system and bringing in those who are is an improvement for the future. You can play the hand your dealt and hope your opponent is bluffing but if you go all-in on that hand you're a fool.
You keep referring to Boston being in a similar position before their Cup. There is nothing similar about it. Will Glen Sather make a Kessel trade to set this team up for the next 5-10 years? Would he trade Kreider or Stepan, a ballsy move, for 2 1sts? Of course not. Also if you are going to try to draw parallels of young guys coming out of nowhere, then you can make an even better argument to trade Callahan because surely a prospect like Kristo will "come out of nowhere" and replace him.
Just stop about Anaheim. They lost Shultz and they're the class of the league. The Rangers were gifted McDonagh and can get almost any FA, yet they are a middling team in a weak division. Where is this team's Perry and Getzlaf? They need a Getzlaf and they aren't getting him through FA.
We've been patient. Three to four years? How about 13? Thirteen years of the same **** every season. The only reason we are going to wait 5 more is because we have to thanks to Glen Sather. Also, again, this team doesn't need a rebuild. You keep defaulting to moving Callahan/Girardi as a rebuild. That's not a rebuild. They need to take some risks. Re-sign Girardi. Okay fine because he is tough to replace right away. Deal Callahan. At least attempt to fill some glaring weaknesses in the new team/system. Shaving mediocre players or those not key to the success of this system and bringing in those who are is an improvement for the future. You can play the hand your dealt and hope your opponent is bluffing but if you go all-in on that hand you're a fool.
eco's bones
Registered User
Two really good posts. Boston is going to play the rest of the year without Seidenberg. He is a key player--they lose another key player or two they'll be a lot weaker. The same could be said for Pittsburgh--Pascal Dupuis has been a key playoff performer--lots of speed, excellent pk'er, usually plays on Crosby's line. He's done and that hurts them. Pens defense is suspect. Fleury can be a great goalie and save their ***** or maybe he'll collapse again and play worse than the d-corps in front of him like in the last two playoffs.
The Rangers are healthy at the moment--except for Derek Dorsett--who will be back and is pretty much interchangeable with Dan Carcillo. The Rangers seem to have decided on their lines which are all playing fairly well. Players are fitting into roles--understand expectations and are scoring more. True that we haven't scored as much as some other teams but from the first third or so of the season until now the scoring has picked up. The pwp is the best it's been in several years.
Maybe it won't last. I don't know but the team is riding a wave and there's no reason to get off that wave. It's not just about the future--it's also about now. The McDonagh's and Zuccarello's (the two most consistent Rangers this year) who have busted their ass all season long deserve not to have the rug pulled out from under them when things are finally going right. If they're the future leaders of the team--they need to know that the team is confident enough to let their play on the ice take the team as far as it can reasonably go.
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