Speculation: Trade Thread Part XII

[Orr Nightmare]

Your out of your mind to think its ok to trade miller..


Boyle may be something we add but he's not exactly the Boyle of old.. He's old and not producing or even half the player he once was...

If we keep this winning mentality to Olympic break well prob look to add mike cam from Calgary

Let's bring in Boyle and then Ray Whitney....let's make a push.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

You are so right...he would never do that.

Any trade of magnitude with the Sharks needs to return RHD Tennyson, W Nieto, and possibly O'Reagan.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

yea its comical with these boards. They are winning so no one will be shipped out of importance. That means Girardi and Callahan are sticking which honestly they are likely going to be resigned. They are both long tine Rangers and with Richards being bought out they will fit them all into next yr.

If they move anyone its Del Zotto. Sure maybe SJ for Demers. They really should get a RD

A few wins in January isnt going to change the situation the Rangers find themselves in this July. Cupless and these guys getting BIG offers on the free agent market.

But thank you for continuing to exhibit the tunnel vision that plagues this organization. Maybe if they lose 3 games this week, you'll want to trade everybody.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Let's bring in Boyle and then Ray Whitney....let's make a push.

This would be funny if they weren't better options than pretty much every gorilla on skates you endorse.

 

[RangerBoy]

Or they could package them like Nashville did with Hartnell and Timmonen. The Rangers don't need to make the decision today. The fact that you wrote "How does that help the Rangers" shows where you stand on both these players.



The Rangers don't have to make that decision today. As I posted but the Rangers can wait until the trade deadline. Just because Carolina traded for Weight 8 years ago doesn't mean the Rangers have to trade Callahan or Girardi before the Olympic break.



We have no idea what they are going to cost.




What are they asking for?

.

And the team keeps winning. I know it sucks because they aren't going to have a fire sale but oh well. Maybe they should trade Zuc too!

Besides the Philly and Nashville deal,how many times have free agents been traded together? The Rangers sign one and don't sign the other,they aren't getting a #1. Any trade isn't happening today. Feb 7 and March 5 are the deadlines. My stand has always been the same. Pay them or trade them. Don't wait until the summer. The price won't go down. The Rangers should have a price they are willing to pay. You hardly post here anymore so nobody knows where you stand and then you come here to mock everyone. What has this team won? The Rangers should have very few untouchables.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Sens fan here. Does Callahan have a NTC and if not what do you think would be a fair price to trade for him if Sather decided to go that route? He'd look good on Spezza's wing and he'd replace Michalek basically on our team.

You're not gonna like the price, other teams captain and fan fave, think Ladd. start with Ceci, Zin, plus high pick and another pros or controlable lower NHL player.

 

[Tawnos]

I don't get this idea that, because a player hasn't been resigned, it means that negotiations aren't ongoing. Negotiations also aren't the same as haggling. It's a long process involving discussion, offers and counter-offers, review, and repeat. It's not a matter of "this is my price, what's your's?"

In the Girardi situation, it absolutely sounds like negotiations have been happening. There was rumor of him being traded and then suddenly a leak that the intention and expectation is that he'll be resigned. Sounds like negotiations made progress to me.

 

[Orr Nightmare]

This would be funny if they weren't better options than pretty much every gorilla on skates you endorse.

You're so quick witted but offer nothing of substances....

 

[cd211]

I don't get this idea that, because a player hasn't been resigned, it means that negotiations aren't ongoing. Negotiations also aren't the same as haggling. It's a long process involving discussion, offers and counter-offers, review, and repeat. It's not a matter of "this is my price, what's your's?"

In the Girardi situation, it absolutely sounds like negotiations have been happening. There was rumor of him being traded and then suddenly a leak that the intention and expectation is that he'll be resigned. Sounds like negotiations made progress to me.

and just to add to this..

noone knows what the terms and demands are for the both of them.. all we're doing is speculating their going to be asking for the moon, and slats is going to have to sign a blank check..

all the media outlets are speculating too, not once have we had an idea of what the asking price are..

get me proof of where the negotiations are headed and the terms then we can properly discuss them.. but this nonsense they should get traded is too too funny.. we all wanted a homegrown talented team, and now that their UFAs we need to trade them? why can't we pay our own based on the body of work and importance they've been to our team currently and in the past?

 

[Let Blaine Die]

You're not gonna like the price, other teams captain and fan fave, think Ladd. start with Ceci or Zin, plus high pick and another pros or controlable lower NHL player.

I'm sorry but Callahan isn't getting you Ceci AND Z-Bad.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

I don't get this idea that, because a player hasn't been resigned, it means that negotiations aren't ongoing. Negotiations also aren't the same as haggling. It's a long process involving discussion, offers and counter-offers, review, and repeat. It's not a matter of "this is my price, what's your's?"

In the Girardi situation, it absolutely sounds like negotiations have been happening. There was rumor of him being traded and then suddenly a leak that the intention and expectation is that he'll be resigned. Sounds like negotiations made progress to me.

Well said. Additionaly I also believe it is highly possible that the "he is off the market" leak could very well have been to get teams to up their offers. At this point we are all ultimately in te dark here.

 

[Son of Steinbrenner]

Besides the Philly and Nashville deal,how many times have free agents been traded together?

I don't know but the point is it's not impossible to get value for impending UFA's.

The Rangers sign one and don't sign the other,they aren't getting a #1

But they can still get something. This free agent class is lacking in talent, that could help the value of the players.

Any trade isn't happening today. Feb 7 and March 5 are the deadlines. My stand has always been the same. Pay them or trade them.

While in a perfect world your stance would make sense. The problem for you is the Rangers are starting to win. What message does it send to the rest of the players if you trade two important pieces for prospects and picks? Can you find an example of a team having a fire sale while in a playoff position?

Don't wait until the summer. The price won't go down. The Rangers should have a price they are willing to pay.

This isn't a black and white issue. You can think it is at your own peril but it's not. We have no idea what the price is.

You hardly post here anymore so nobody knows where you stand and then you come here to mock everyone.

Mock everyone? Hardly...I forgot how sensitive some posters are about certain things. If you don't think some posters are on the "shinny new toy" kick I'm sorry. Look at the posting history's of some of these people. I don't post that often because I don't have the time to argue with people about something none of us can change.

What has this team won? The Rangers should have very few untouchables.

It depends on the deal. We have way too many posters that just want to blow this thing up. I don't, not with Sather as the GM. I don't trust him to make the trades the team needs to make to become a consistent contender. Do you? Two months ago I would've traded Girardi and Callahan. The Rangers can't unless they are getting back talented players that can help right away. It's disingenuous to suggest this team should trade Callahan and Girardi from the roster while the team is starting to play well. I know you don't like players once they are about to get paid. I get that. I know the draw of young players and the hope they turn into something. Here is a question. What should the Rangers do if a team isn't willing to meet the asking price for Girardi or Callahan? Why does nobody bring that point up? Why is a sure thing teams will give up huge assets for the players? Should we just give the players away if teams aren't willing to meet whatever the hfboards market demand expectations are?

 

[Trxjw]

To me, it all boils down to the Rangers being proactive as opposed to reactive. Don't let how the season plays out dictate how you want to approach re-signing guys like Callahan, Stralman and Girardi. You know what kind of players they are, and you know what you're going to get out of them. Do they fit? If yes, how much are you willing to pay them? If the number works, then re-sign them and get it over with. If they don't, then you need to get the most value for them that you can.

I understand the idea of not being a seller when you're in a playoff spot, but you don't have to sell your way out of a playoff spot either. The Sharks sold Murray and Clowe last year and were still a playoff team. They added Torres for a 3rd. A net gain of assets. Could the Rangers move Stralman for a late first and then add a guy like Tom Gilbert for a lesser piece?

 

[Tawnos]

and just to add to this..

noone knows what the terms and demands are for the both of them.. all we're doing is speculating their going to be asking for the moon, and slats is going to have to sign a blank check..

all the media outlets are speculating too, not once have we had an idea of what the asking price are..

get me proof of where the negotiations are headed and the terms then we can properly discuss them.. but this nonsense they should get traded is too too funny.. we all wanted a homegrown talented team, and now that their UFAs we need to trade them? why can't we pay our own based on the body of work and importance they've been to our team currently and in the past?

Well, I think the Rangers have to explore all options. It's just due diligence. Just because you want to keep a player doesn't mean that your view of him and his view of himself line up well enough to get a contract done. There are other factors too. Maybe Girardi wants to explore returning home, going where his wife is from, or seeing what a team like Chicago or San Jose (just giving examples, not using specifics) might offer him. All of this goes into the decision-making process for the player and is independent of what the team wants. It could very well mean that "just sign him already" means they have to overpay to provide the incentive that overcomes those factors and entices the player to resign today. Do we really want them to overpay? These things are complex.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Some hypothetical trades that don't hurt us this much this year and stocks us up (not saying I don't like these guys and that other team will bite without additional sweeteners - have to balance out contract numbers). Easier to think about if we weren't moving up the standings as we are and potential chemistry issues.

Anaheim: RHD Vatenen, Palmieri, Maroon, 2nd for Girardi, Dorsett, Bourque

San Jose: Tennyson, Nieto, O'reagan for MDZ, Boyle, Pouliot

Carolina: Faulk for Staal plus later pick or lower prospect

Leaves us with:

krieds-step-Nash
hags-Richards-cally
Palmieri-brassard-zuc
Maroon-Moore-Nieto
(Carcillo, miller - 1st call)

McD-Tennyson
Faulk-Vatenen
Moore-Stralman
(Falk)

 

[AlternateSideParking]

It takes two to tango. Maybe Sather feels obliged to get the utmost maximum for two players he championed and helped develop into expensive UFAs.

Nobody is doing anything. Sather cant shop Callahan and Girardi because it will be a massive distraction. He's old and stupid and but not stupid. He knows some crazy-desperate team who's GM has been ordered by ownership to overpay for rentals will call him at the 11th hour and offer up a blockbuster.

So we wait. The team is winning, the team is healthy. You dont trade two guys like Callahan and Girardi just on the basis of money. It's not a salary dump.

 

[Matt4776]

This trading deadline I think is the biggest one in recent memory for the future of our team. I don't see Sather letting G and Cally walk for nothing. If they aren't traded, they'll be resigned.

I think our biggest long-term needs are, in order:

1. #1 center
2. #1 RD

I think our wings are pretty solid in the long-term. Nash and Zucc are very good top-6 wingers and we have Kristo and Fast waiting in the wings (no pun intended). Even if we trade Cally, we're in good shape. LW is a bit trickier. We have Kreider who is certainly a top-6 winger. Then, we have Hagelin who's a 2/3rd line tweener. We have a couple of prospects who are having really good years in Duke and Buch who are a few years away. This could be upgraded, but in my opinion, is a distant 3rd need behind the first two.

Brassard isn't a long term piece in my opinion. He's too inconsistent to claim a role on this team. He isn't good enough for a top-6 position, doesn't really fit as a third liner, and would be too expensive to be one. We also have a couple of third line centers in Miller and Lindberg who at least one of should be ready for duty next year.

Like I said, I think we need a #1 RD, which would bump G down to the 2nd pairing if retained. I'd have no problem with this- but with McIlrath coming up next year, I'd look to shop one of G or Stralman for an upgrade at RD. I also think we could shop one of Moore/MDZ. Brassard and Callahan are also expendable to me.

This leaves Brass, G/Stralman, Callahan, Moore/DZ as expendable pieces. Obviously not all (if any) would be traded but these are pieces I don't see in our long term plans.

 

[cd211]

Well, I think the Rangers have to explore all options. It's just due diligence. Just because you want to keep a player doesn't mean that your view of him and his view of himself line up well enough to get a contract done. There are other factors too. Maybe Girardi wants to explore returning home, going where his wife is from, or seeing what a team like Chicago or San Jose (just giving examples, not using specifics) might offer him. All of this goes into the decision-making process for the player and is independent of what the team wants. It could very well mean that "just sign him already" means they have to overpay to provide the incentive that overcomes those factors and entices the player to resign today. Do we really want them to overpay? These things are complex.

absolutely! got to maximize the return and value for sure.. i think if a trade is to be made and there is one, slats will do it, if it makes sense.. hes not dumb like most think he is.. people think its easy as 1-2-3 to make trades, signings, build a team..

But i disagree about overpaying.. theres a difference between overpaying and paying market value and fair deal.. people on here act like these guys are old as can be and will command a ton of money and are worth more as trade bait then for us to use them in our future plans..

there 29 and 30 going into next year.. look around the league and see whats trending.. the UFA market is shrinking year after year with quality players because teams are locking up their own.. so if we dont pay them.. we're only going to get a poor-man's version of these guys and over pay so its counter productive.. trades are harder and harder to make

..I am just tired of that same old response on here.. no one knows what their demands are, and everything is speculation from fans all the way up to credible media folks.. give me solid proof of what the demands are and things can be said from there..

Slats keeps things very low key and quiet, and we as fans feel like we have entitlement to understand whats going on behind close doors.. The only thing that can be said is never takes care of his own and thats what pisses me off the most.. its always a battle

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

I would still do Del Zotto for Demers straight up and I think it's a fair deal

 

[Samuel Culper III]

I would still do Del Zotto for Demers straight up and I think it's a fair deal

It makes us better. Simple as pie. Demers is a more steady NHL player defensively and plays the right side while adding similar offense.

 

[Ola]

How good is Byfuglien on the wing? I am not sure how well he could handle what AV is trying to do on defense, but could he be a decent PF with Brass and Zucc?

What could Winnipeg get for Buff? I think some of the speculations are over the top. We might not be the highest bidder, but they aren't getting that priced asset for Buff.

I also think MDZ has more value than what many thinks. People have obviously tried to low ball Slats and get his value down, many pro-scouts and GMs will of course still acknowledge that he has a lot of hockey in him.

Could this get it done? Deal Boyle for pick/picks. We might get a 2nd rounder for him.

Deal MDZ, Lindberg and the Boyle pick/picks for Buff. A top 4 D, decent prospect and a 2nd/3rd and 4th pick.

Kreider-Step-Nash
Hags-BR-Cally
Buff-Brassard-Zucc
Carbomb-Moore-Dorsett
McD-G
Staal-Strålman
Allen-Moore

Rotate Buff with BR and McD on the point on the PP.

We have options at the draft. Keep Buff if we like him or deal him when 30 teams has cap space. We got a point option if BR is leaving. Buff has cup experience, could help our run.

The CDN has gone down 10 percent in twelve month. CDN market 1/3 of HRR. That is 3% of HRR. Players get 50%, that is a downward pressure of 1.5%. 71m cap minus a mil. Can't be disregarded. HOWEVER, the December prediction does not count on big markets playing late. That prediction is based on the avg market. There is a big difference between team 15 in revenue generating org and Bos and Chi playing late. LAK, NYR and co. To my knowledge, the December prediction has been high once and low every other year. We might fit Buff in while keeping the rest too.

 

[RangerBoy]

absolutely! got to maximize the return and value for sure.. i think if a trade is to be made and there is one, slats will do it, if it makes sense.. hes not dumb like most think he is.. people think its easy as 1-2-3 to make trades, signings, build a team..

But i disagree about overpaying.. theres a difference between overpaying and paying market value and fair deal.. people on here act like these guys are old as can be and will command a ton of money and are worth more as trade bait then for us to use them in our future plans..

there 29 and 30 going into next year.. look around the league and see whats trending.. the UFA market is shrinking year after year with quality players because teams are locking up their own.. so if we dont pay them.. we're only going to get a poor-man's version of these guys and over pay so its counter productive.. trades are harder and harder to make

..I am just tired of that same old response on here.. no one knows what their demands are, and everything is speculation from fans all the way up to credible media folks.. give me solid proof of what the demands are and things can be said from there..

Slats keeps things very low key and quiet, and we as fans feel like we have entitlement to understand whats going on behind close doors.. The only thing that can be said is never takes care of his own and thats what pisses me off the most.. its always a battle

How many years and how much money? What do you consider market value?

 

[CommaSynapse]

Some hypothetical trades that don't hurt us this much this year and stocks us up (not saying I don't like these guys and that other team will bite without additional sweeteners - have to balance out contract numbers). Easier to think about if we weren't moving up the standings as we are and potential chemistry issues.

Anaheim: RHD Vatenen, Palmieri, Maroon, 2nd for Girardi, Dorsett, Bourque

San Jose: Tennyson, Nieto, O'reagan for MDZ, Boyle, Pouliot

Carolina: Faulk for Staal plus later pick or lower prospect

Leaves us with:

krieds-step-Nash
hags-Richards-cally
Palmieri-brassard-zuc
Maroon-Moore-Nieto
(Carcillo, miller - 1st call)

McD-Tennyson
Faulk-Vatenen
Moore-Stralman
(Falk)

I've never heard of Tennyson before now. I've read good things, but 2 assists in 4 games is what his career consists of. I can't see him assuming first pairing RD duties already based solely on that. Potential is there, sure.

I feel that Carolina would have to be crazy to trade Faulk for Staal given Staal's injury history with the extra being only a low pick or minor prospect.

Boyle has been good for us on the PK and on the fourth line. He's a guy who tends to turn it up during the playoffs. Pouliot has found some chemistry. Trading Boyle, Pouliot, and MDZ for relatively unproven guys could bite us down the line.

Anaheim is doing great--I don't see them trading 3 roster players for a #1 d-man, a fourth liner, and a prospect. The production does not equal out, never mind them adding a second.

 

[Profet]

Time to make some moves?

Going by the old saying, nows the time to make some moves and sell while value is high.

So who's perceived value is higher than their actual value?

Names on my list:
Brassard, Pouliot

 

[Ola]

How many years and how much money? What do you consider market value?

12m per combined, the longer terms the better.