Speculation: Trade Thread Part XII

[Trxjw]

No, in this particular case, I said what I said, in the manner that I said it, to quell further discussion that we may potentially lose these guys for nothing once free agency begins LIKE Fla or Nash lost two of their top UFAs.

There's no way to guarantee that.

We are a prestigious club. Players love playing in this city. We've had relative success and it has been sustained relative success. We have the money. We have a GM who overpays on his FAs. Add 2 + 2 together. I see no reason for people to continue to drive home the point that we may lose these two particular guys for nothing if we don't trade them.

It is highly unlikely we lose either guy for nothing. It may be worse to sign them to gross contracts, but I'm not arguing what is the better course of action. In any event, the likelihood of them walking at the ending of the season is slim to none.

Furthermore, there's a mentality on this board to be negative no matter what happens. There is no winning. It's bad if we keep them. It's bad if we trade them.

Truth is, we don't know what will be the right decision. There are large risks associated with moving them and large risks associated with keeping them and giving them raises.

Recognize that we're in a **** situation no matter what and that even if you get what you want it may be the wrong decision.

I see what you're saying, but I don't agree with it. We've let key pieces of the team walk away before without overpaying them. Despite whatever allure NYC might have, there are plenty of other alluring things out there for players. Money, a better chance to win a cup, warmer climate, better place to raise a family, less pressure, etc, etc, etc.

It's a possibility no matter how much fluff you throw at it.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

I see what you're saying, but I don't agree with it. We've let key pieces of the team walk away before without overpaying them. Despite whatever allure NYC might have, there are plenty of other alluring things out there for players. Money, a better chance to win a cup, warmer climate, better place to raise a family, less pressure, etc, etc, etc.

It's a possibility no matter how much fluff you throw at it.

When was the most recent example of this? And were the guy(s) the captain and assistant captain with excellent locker room reps?

 

[OverTheCap]

When was the most recent example of this? And were the guy(s) the captain and assistant captain with excellent locker room reps?

Jagr and Shanahan.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Jagr and Shanahan.

Shanahan was 39/40 when he left us and had only been with us for 3 seasons. He had also noticeable regression in his play and was believed to be out of the league in the coming seasons. We wanted to get younger.

Jagr had been with us for 5 seasons and wanted something like 7 million to remain with us at the age of 35.

Difference in both.

 

[Trxjw]

When was the most recent example of this? And were the guy(s) the captain and assistant captain with excellent locker room reps?

So now there's a "player of significance" requirement attached to your point? Prust walked and was paid by the Canadiens. Great teammate and locker room guy. Why didn't Sather overpay for him? Or is that okay because he wasn't a lifelong Ranger that wore a letter?

Jagr is indeed another example, but none of that matters. Past precedence has little do to with the point at hand.

 

[TheRightWay]

Shanahan was 39/40 when he left us and had only been with us for 3 seasons. He had also noticeable regression in his play and was believed to be out of the league in the coming seasons. We wanted to get younger.

Jagr had been with us for 5 seasons and wanted something like 7 million to remain with us at the age of 35.

Difference in both.

So then how the hell do you want us to provide a "recent example" of this? Our recent captains have been Jagr (old) and Drury (on a lifetime contract and oldish). Our assistants have been Staal (we'll see next year), Girardi (we'll see this year), Shanahan (old), Prospal (old), Naslund (old), Gomez (traded). You're not exactly giving us much to work with here.

 

[OverTheCap]

Shanahan was 39/40 when he left us and had only been with us for 3 seasons. He had also noticeable regression in his play and was believed to be out of the league in the coming seasons. We wanted to get younger.

Jagr had been with us for 5 seasons and wanted something like 7 million to remain with us at the age of 35.

Difference in both.

This a good example of Sather not willing to overpay a key player. Even though Jagr was 35-years-old, he led the team with 71 points. He was a better player and our biggest offensive threat, and more important to that team's success than Girardi or Callahan are to this team - yet Sather let him walk.

As Trxjw said, what Sather has done in the past matters little in this situation, but there are certainly are instances of Sather letting important players walk away for nothing - no matter how many times you try to move the goal posts and insist "this doesn't count."

 

[Fitzy]

When we dealt for Jagr, Washington paid half his cap hit. Unfortunately he missed the option target for another year. (I think Nylander flat out declined his)

Jagr didn't want to take a paycut. We offered 1 year 6 mil, as I recall, he wanted 8 mil per. He wanted to be the highest paid player above Gomez and Drury. The Rangers were in on Hossa and he went to Detroit. They turned to Jagr, he was offended and said no, then they turned to plan C: Mr. Naslund. And the rest is history.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

So now there's a "player of significance" requirement attached to your point? Prust walked and was paid by the Canadiens. Great teammate and locker room guy. Why didn't Sather overpay for him? Or is that okay because he wasn't a lifelong Ranger that wore a letter?

Jagr is indeed another example, but none of that matters. Past precedence has little do to with the point at hand.

I think it's a little more ridiculous for everyone to start comparing Cally and Girardi to "other UFA's" and "Jagr and Shanahan".

More ridiculous than me claiming that Jagr nor Shanahan are adequate answers to the question I posed. Maybe I should have been a little bit more specific.

The situations aren't reminiscent. Jagr wanted money. That's where his heart lied. Shanny's heart lied in Detroit. He was at the end of his career. Neither had a prolonged or strong relationship with the Rangers organization.

I don't care about these hypothetical arguments. Poke "holes" in my argument on this matter all you want. It's delusional to think that the Rangers will let go two players so revered in the locker room walk away for nothing. It's not comparable to a small market team that can't allure free agents to stay/come or can't financially afford their demands. It's not comparable to keeping two mercenaries, one of which was a step away from retirement, another who clearly was interested in money over team.

I'm not going to argue about this any more, simply because, this is constantly a topic of discussion with no resolution in sight for the foreseeable future. I'm not going to get into a discussion about what I think the team should do or shouldn't do. It doesn't matter. I'm a fan of the team but this is a **** situation. We could trade one of these players or both of these players, get dud prospects/players in return, and the hockey world can ridicule us and call it karma that we didn't give our core players their due diligence. We could opt to keep both of them, give them high raises, and both can regress by the midway point of their contracts. Arguing so vehemently for either side is pointless because neither you, nor i, nor any other passionate fan on this board knows what the future holds.

 

[Vitto79]

Sny rangers blog quoting Lebrun on tsn that nyr feels they can sign girardi and he's not being shopped

 

[LeetchisGod]

Sny rangers blog quoting Lebrun on tsn that nyr feels they can sign girardi and he's not being shopped

Makes sense. Our RD situation is abysmal without him.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Sny rangers blog quoting Lebrun on tsn that nyr feels they can sign girardi and he's not being shopped

As Silverfish said, we can win without Cally and Boyle, but not Girardi.

 

[Blueshirt Believer]

eh, I'm not sure about Girardi. If he is giving a considerable discount to stay, I'm cool with it I guess.

 

[Cassano]

eh, I'm not sure about Girardi. If he is giving a considerable discount to stay, I'm cool with it I guess.

I'm not sure why Girardi is obliged to give this franchise a discount when he can easily make more on better teams around the league.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

eh, I'm not sure about Girardi. If he is giving a considerable discount to stay, I'm cool with it I guess.

You've been spoiled.

 

[Blueshirt Believer]

You've been spoiled.

No, not really. He is a good Dman, but he has lapses in his game and isn't worth it for more than 5+(which he will easily get in the open market). If he wants to stay because he loves NY for 4-4.5 million...fine. But, I don't think he would sign for that cheap(I could be wrong).

 

[BlueshirtBlitz]

As Silverfish said, we can win without Cally and Boyle, but not Girardi.

We can win without Girardi, too.

If Girardi can get talented young talent, not shopping him but shopping Cally and Boyle is a mistake.

 

[Blueshirt Believer]

I'm not sure why Girardi is obliged to give this franchise a discount when he can easily make more on better teams around the league.

I never said he was obliged. He can do whatever he wants...

 

[Ola]

When we dealt for Jagr, Washington paid half his cap hit. Unfortunately he missed the option target for another year. (I think Nylander flat out declined his)

Jagr didn't want to take a paycut. We offered 1 year 6 mil, as I recall, he wanted 8 mil per. He wanted to be the highest paid player above Gomez and Drury. The Rangers were in on Hossa and he went to Detroit. They turned to Jagr, he was offended and said no, then they turned to plan C: Mr. Naslund. And the rest is history.

Slats had a 3m option on Nyls, declined it and Nyls got like almost 6 and we signed Drury for 7x7 instead.

I am not suprised if this is talked about in the locker room, Slats forces everyone to take bridge deals etc while he pays expensive UFAs, and we it finally are the homegrown players turn, we dump him. There is just no patient in NY.

 

[itsPLkielbasa]

Keep Girardi and trade Staal.

I think the Hurricanes would slightly overpay for Staal but thats just my opinion.
I would love to get Skinner on this team but doubt that happens. Maybe something around Tlusty + LD or RD. Not sure what the D would be and don't know if the Hurricanes value Tlusty as much as we value Staal.

Maybe that trade with Edmonton will go through and we get Yakupov or some other package from them. Trade deadline isn't too far away.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Yakupov left tonight's game with a head injury, possible concussion.

Doubt he gets traded at this point.

 

[RangerBoy]

Eddie Olczyk was discussing the Rangers on the NBCSN Rangers-Hawks broadcast pre-game show last week with Mike Emrick. Edzo doesn't believe Marc Staal will sign an extension with the Rangers so in his view that makes Girardi a must sign. He talked about the Girardi decision facing the Rangers but he felt the Staal situation comes into play with Girardi. Eddie didn't mention anything about Callahan. Is Staal in play? The Leafs main pro scout/director Steve Kasper was at the game last night. Carolina was scouting the game. Is that the plan? Get Girardi signed and move Staal. The Leafs need Staal more than they need Del Zotto. That would mean the Rangers have a plan in place

 

[TheRightWay]

I think it's a little more ridiculous for everyone to start comparing Cally and Girardi to "other UFA's" and "Jagr and Shanahan".

More ridiculous than me claiming that Jagr nor Shanahan are adequate answers to the question I posed. Maybe I should have been a little bit more specific.

The situations aren't reminiscent. Jagr wanted money. That's where his heart lied. Shanny's heart lied in Detroit. He was at the end of his career. Neither had a prolonged or strong relationship with the Rangers organization.

Okay. So you want us to give you examples of captains/assistant captains in the 27-31 range who were homegrown players or close to it and were up for free agency and left. Can you give us examples of anyone in the last 8 years or so who meets that criteria at all, whether he stayed OR left? I can't think of a single player who fits this criteria. Your demand that we give examples of players similar to Callahan and Girardi who left is inherently ridiculous because there's nobody who meets that criteria in the first place. Can you give me examples of players similar to Callahan and Girardi who were up for free agency and instead were locked up to big contracts?

 

[Ghost of jas]

Eddie Olczyk was discussing the Rangers on the NBCSN Rangers-Hawks broadcast pre-game show last week with Mike Emrick. Edzo doesn't believe Marc Staal will sign an extension with the Rangers so in his view that makes Girardi a must sign. He talked about the Girardi decision facing the Rangers but he felt the Staal situation comes into play with Girardi. Eddie didn't mention anything about Callahan. Is Staal in play? The Leafs main pro scout/director Steve Kasper was at the game last night. Carolina was scouting the game. Is that the plan? Get Girardi signed and move Staal. The Leafs need Staal more than they need Del Zotto. That would mean the Rangers have a plan in place

This does bring an interesting situation. IMO, Staal is the better player when playing at his peak. But, given the depth at LD, (including the development of Skjei), and the lack of depth at RD in the organization, if Girardi is willing to take an agreeable deal, then it might very well be in the Rangers best interest to keep Girardi and move Staal. And, given that Staal still has a year to go on his deal, he may garner more than Girardi would on the trade market.

 

[Rangers ftw]

Girardi has missed 2 games in 8 seasons. Staal has missed 78 games in the 7 seasons. And while being "unlucky" sure is a factor, it still is a factor that need to be taken into account. Staal is a better player, but injuries along with the Carolina factor, trading him makes more sense, if Girardi can be signed to a fair deal. I'd give him 5 years AAV 5,5.