Speculation: Trade Speculation Part V

[Traitor Zach]

Considering the forward problems the team already has and no help coming from within as we learned the hard way this season, I can see Lou giving out ridiculous contracts to both Elias and Clarkson.

My hope though is Elias looks at a 3 year deal in the 6m per range. Ideally, I'd like to see if we can get him for a but under that, at maybe 5-5.5m per, because while Elias has put up points the past few years, he is going to decline here eventually and in fact his skating/speed is showing very subtle signs of him slowing down in that respect. He is going to be 37 the start of next season.

I'm not sure I see what team is going to offer Clarkson a really big deal. Maybe the Isles if they finally decide to spend? I don't see our rivals able to outbid us considering their cap situations (Rangers, Pens, Flyers, Bruins). I don't see a team like Montreal interested now that they have Prust and may very well bring Colby Armstrong back for another year (Therrien favorite) to man the 4th line.

I'm not sure I see the Leafs being interested in Clarkson really, although I think Clarkson himself wouldn't mind going back home to Toronto. I'd see if we could keep Clarkson for 4 for 16. Anything more, and I'd start cringing. If the per year hit has to increase, I'd keep the years to minimum. Clarkson is a guy who could very easily fall off a cliff performance wise and probably will at some point.

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

I honestly value Clarkson a ton lower than most of you guys. He's a poor skater, struggles to receive passes, handles the stick at an average level, and can't hit the broad side of the barn from outside the crease. Giving Clarkson $6,000,000 would make him the 50th highest player in hockey.

Taylor Hall, Jordan Eberle, Joe Thornton , Scott Hartnell, Mike Green, Tyler Myers, Nik Backstrom, and Jordan Stall are players he would be tied with.

Even the 5 million dollar group with Kesler, Krejci, Spezza and others inspires more long-term or short-term faith than David Clarkson.

$4.5 is my ceiling for Clarky. I readily admit I might be undervaluing him but I just don't see much there but a really solid grinder. Clarky ideally is on a third line. I don't see much more than that in him.

 

[Bleedred]

Spezza is on a $7 million a year contract, but yeah I know what you mean and agree. $5 million for Clarkson is looking insane at this point.

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

Spezza is on a $7 million a year contract, but yeah I know what you mean and agree. $5 million for Clarkson is looking insane at this point.

That's his cap hit. He'll be down to $5 million next season (but I understand your point).

 

[NJDevs26]

Lucic got $6 million per on a 3-year extension, when he 'wasn't' a UFA, and one of the few UFA's worth a darn to boot.

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

Lucic got $6 million per on a 3-year extension, when he 'wasn't' a UFA, and one of the few UFA's worth a darn.

Yup. It really doesn't make sense to pay Clarky all that money. It will suck when he's in Toronto and we have Matteau learning on the job on the third line but we're better off long term. We really, truly are.

 

[NJDevs26]

I'm saying if you guys don't think Clarkson's getting $5+ offers from other teams you're nuts. The only team he'd sign less than a $5 offer is with us. I think we could get him on a 5-22.5 unless he goes UFA and gets something completely astronomical for him. Lucic is the closest comparable, a better player than Clarkson obviously but the most comparable skill set.

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

I'm saying if you guys don't think Clarkson's getting $5+ offers from other teams you're nuts. The only team he'd sign less than a $5 offer is with us. I think we could get him on a 5-22.5 unless he goes UFA and gets something completely astronomical for him. Lucic is the closest comparable, a better player than Clarkson obviously but the most comparable skill set.

I disagree that the skill-set is comparable (skating, shooting namely). Clarky has his value and I'd love to have him. I'm prepared to let him walk if someone offers him more than 5. And even 5 is pushing it.

 

[NJDevs26]

Yup. It really doesn't make sense to pay Clarky all that money. It will suck when he's in Toronto and we have Matteau learning on the job on the third line but we're better off long term. We really, truly are.

Not if you keep losing guys, taking years to replace them by developing other players then losing those guys in UFA too because they get too pricey. There's no way to avoid going over budget when you're paying guys who get to UFA. At 'some' point you have to go over budget a bit or you become the Edmonton Oilers. Kovy they were able to avoid going over cap budget at the expense of real dollars - and other penalties.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Lucic got $6 million per on a 3-year extension, when he 'wasn't' a UFA, and one of the few UFA's worth a darn to boot.

He's much better than Clarkson in every way in my opinion. He's got no luck scoring this year (shooting percentage is nearly half his career norm), but I think he's way better and nearly worth the money. I dont think Clarky is worth more than 4 but I'd be fine giving him 4.5. 5 would be too much.

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

Not if you keep losing guys, taking years to replace them then losing those guys in UFA too. At 'some' point you have to go over budget a bit. Kovy they were able to avoid going over cap budget at the expense of real dollars - and other penalties.

While I do agree, you have to pick and choose what players you go over the budget for. Parise? Sure. No doubt. You give him whatever he wants because that's a heck of a player. I don't buy the whole "he's not worth 98 million dollars" nonsense. He most certainly is.

But Clarkson? You can find another. You really can. It would not surprise me if Matteau is a better version of Clarky in 3 years.

 

[Bleedred]

Not if you keep losing guys, taking years to replace them by developing other players then losing those guys in UFA too because they get too pricey. There's no way to avoid going over budget when you're paying guys who get to UFA. At 'some' point you have to go over budget a bit or you become the Edmonton Oilers. Kovy they were able to avoid going over cap budget at the expense of real dollars - and other penalties.

Yup. What makes us better if we never are gonna sign UFA's other than Lou's bargain bin specials like Bobby Butler?

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

Sorry to stray from the topic a bit but does anyone else think Lou should start trading guys he feels he might lose? I know Parise was tough to trade last year because of injuries/palyoff run but we could have gotten quite the haul for him.

I would NOT be opposed to trading Clarkson in a package for a top 6 forward. Maybe we trade with a team that is in pseudo-playoff contention and would pull the trigger on a deal if we throw in Clarky. If they throw us a pick back and the player is worth it, why not?

 

[NJDevs26]

While I do agree, you have to pick and choose what players you go over the budget for. Parise? Sure. No doubt. You give him whatever he wants because that's a heck of a player. I don't buy the whole "he's not worth 98 million dollars" nonsense. He most certainly is.

But Clarkson? You can find another. You really can. It would not surprise me if Matteau is a better version of Clarky in 3 years.

Well fair enough, that's kinda the argument I've been railing against all year - how people are saying we're better off without the contract (ignoring if we 'had' re-signed him, it would not be for $98 million anyway), while we struggle to score goals and make the playoffs a season after getting to the Finals, in one of Marty/Lou's last seasons.

Yeah the Parise contract would be bad from years 5 on probably, but you don't know what kind of team or organization you'll have in year 5 on anyway considering Marty/Elias/Lou could all be gone by then. Or what a $7.5 million cap hit would really mean if the cap shoots back up in the $70-80 or more million range. Parise's contract may not be nearly as bad as people think, except for all the up-front money since he's not getting paid on the back end as much and a $7.5 cap hit on a $85-90 million cap isn't as crippling as one on a $64 million cap.

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

Yup. What makes us better if we never are gonna sign UFA's other than Lou's bargain bin specials like Bobby Butler?

Look at how successful the Devils have been pulling off under-the-radar deals and signing "bargain bin" guys. We are one of the most well-run organizations in hockey and have had sustained success for nearly two decades.

I understand the frustration but let's not pretend that Lou's way doesn't/hasn't work/worked.

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

Well fair enough, that's kinda the argument I've been railing against all year - how people are saying we're better off without the contract (ignoring if we 'had' re-signed him, it would not be for $98 million anyway), while we struggle to score goals and make the playoffs a season after getting to the Finals, in one of Marty/Lou's last seasons.

Yeah the Parise contract would be bad from years 5 on probably, but you don't know what kind of team or organization you'll have in year 5 on anyway considering Marty/Elias/Lou could all be gone by then. Or what a $7.5 million cap hit would really mean if the cap shoots back up in the $70-80 or more million range. Parise's contract may not be nearly as bad as people think, except for all the up-front money since he's not getting paid on the back end as much and a $7.5 cap hit on a $85-90 million cap isn't as crippling as one on a $64 million cap.

I am in complete agreement and this was always my stance on Zach. He was worth every penny if not more to the Devils. And hiding behind the contract is disingenuous, in my opinion. We suffered a great loss and we feel it every single PK, every single PP, and every single shootout.

 

[NJDevs26]

Sorry to stray from the topic a bit but does anyone else think Lou should start trading guys he feels he might lose? I know Parise was tough to trade last year because of injuries/palyoff run but we could have gotten quite the haul for him.

I would NOT be opposed to trading Clarkson in a package for a top 6 forward. Maybe we trade with a team that is in pseudo-playoff contention and would pull the trigger on a deal if we throw in Clarky. If they throw us a pick back and the player is worth it, why not?

No, and no. Organizations don't trade their UFA's to be if they're in the playoffs. Especially in a wide-open season like this. Atlanta kind of did it with Kovy but they were a fringe playoff team at best anyway.

Now if we're 6-7 points back by the deadline, different story. You don't generally trade guys you hope to re-sign though, unless there's some sort of under-the-table agreement a la Thachuk.

 

[Holtz My Bahls]

Yup. What makes us better if we never are gonna sign UFA's other than Lou's bargain bin specials like Bobby Butler?

Also Lou's annual tough guy signing and buyout...

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

No, and no. Organizations don't trade their UFA's to be if they're in the playoffs. Especially in a wide-open season like this. Atlanta kind of did it with Kovy but they were a fringe playoff team at best anyway.

That's precisely why it would be more appealing to another team. If in the unlikely event Bobby Ryan, for example, is on the block you wouldn't throw in Clarkson if the Ducks feel the need have a player that would help them "win now" in return?

It's a terrible, unlikely example because of the players involved but you understand the premise. I'd throw in Clarky without a problem.

 

[Bleedred]

Look at how successful the Devils have been pulling off under-the-radar deals and signing "bargain bin" guys. We are one of the most well-run organizations in hockey and have had sustained success for nearly two decades.

I understand the frustration but let's not pretend that Lou's way doesn't/hasn't work/worked.

Signing Butler when we lost Parise and Sykora was really an adequate replacement right?

I'll wait to the off season to slag Lou to see what he does. The people who say his hands were tied did have a point. There weren't many good options left when Parise left on 4th of July. And the trade market does appear to suck right now. If he lets Clarkson walk without signing a decent UFA, or anybody else then he does deserve crticism in my opinion. We need to sign a UFA winger anyway.

 

[Holtz My Bahls]

No, and no. Organizations don't trade their UFA's to be if they're in the playoffs. Especially in a wide-open season like this. Atlanta kind of did it with Kovy but they were a fringe playoff team at best anyway.

If I remember correctly things went south quickly in Atlanta when Kovy wouldn't sign an extension, the locker room was a divided mess too. That was a once in a lifetime deal that is likely never to happen again, well it probably will once all the #1 overall picks ELC's expire and if not at that point than once they all are UFA's what a **** show that could be.

 

[Scott04]

That's precisely why it would be more appealing to another team. If in the unlikely event Bobby Ryan, for example, is on the block you wouldn't throw in Clarkson if the Ducks feel the need have a player that would help them "win now" in return?

It's a terrible, unlikely example because of the players involved but you understand the premise. I'd throw in Clarky without a problem.

The reason I wouldn't do it (in your example or otherwise), is because the move doesn't accomplish anything for us in the win now sense. In that particular example, getting Bobby Ryan is awesome, but we gain nothing depth-wise if it costs Clarkson to get him. In the example of someone else, it only helps us so much if we have to trade one of our contributing roster players and really shows no commitment to the guy of win now. In which case... whats the point of pursuing such a trade?

 

[Bleedred]

I'd probably do a Clarkson trade for Ryan (They wouldn't though) He is signed into next year, and maybe even the year after?

I think they'd want Henrique or Larsson though.

 

[Marshal Rochambeau]

I'd probably do a Clarkson trade for Ryan (They wouldn't though) He is signed into next year, and maybe even the year after?

I think they'd want Henrique or Larsson though.

With Perry and Getzlaf signed and prospects up the whazoo, Anaheim will have an easier time letting go of Ryan I think. Probably Henrique and a pick/prospect. Trading Clarkson for him would be redundant and I'd rather trade Josefson but Im just being real yano

 

[Devils Trap]

Clarkson + Merrill + Josefson + ???