Speculation: Trade Speculation Part III

[Bleedred]

I'm fine with getting rid of Tallinder for a 5th round pick. I'd like to do better, but if that's it then fine. That's $3.375 million we can use on a forward next year hopefully.

 

[New Jersey Devils]

With the current expendable assets we have, there wouldn't be anything we would get in return that would help the team ASAP.

 

[Bleedred]

With the current expendable assets we have, there wouldn't be anything we would get in return that would help the team ASAP.

I'd be willing to throw in some expendable prospect defensemen. Urbom, Burlon. Those guys are expendable to me. There's a high chance neither of them ever play for us at the NHL level. A very good chance none of them play at the NHL level. Merrill, Scarlett, Severson, those two guys. Then hopefully guys like Fayne, and Greene are in our long term future.

 

[apice3*]

Exactly my point... "something" for Tallinder will turn out to be a career AHL'er and a 5th round pick, at most.

What good does that do to our current team? That's not exactly the type of asset management I was looking for when you said that we could get something around the deadline.

We traded a 4th round pick for Poni and a 5th rounder for Loktionov. Who's to say we can't flip the "career AHL-er and 5th round pick, at most" for a roster player that does help the team.

And by the way, Tallinder and Volchenkov would both fetch more than that, especially Tallinder.

 

[apice3*]

With the current expendable assets we have, there wouldn't be anything we would get in return that would help the team ASAP.

Ridiculous. We've already added two pieces to help the team this season without even including any players.

 

[NJDevs26]

ROR would have been claimed 100%. Its just a strange situation with the lockout and his holdout overlapping.

The reason teams dont offer sheet is because you basically do the negotiating for your opponent, and in this case, Calgary helped a team they're fighting for a playoff spot sign a top 6 player.

Something like three out of fifteen offer sheets have been 'successful' in terms of the team throwing out the offer sheet actually getting the player. If it's any kind of good player, it generally will be matched.

However, you can make life more difficult for your competitor down the road by doing it. You think GM's lost respect for Wilson sheeting Hjalmarsson on the cap-strapped Blackhawks, forcing them to let Niemi go (and conveniently scooping him up)? That was an example of one offer sheet that actually served a purpose, despite not getting the player.

And I agree with DATW that no 'politics' would have stopped teams claiming ROR, especially when you know other teams are doing it too, maybe not 100% of GM's would have claimed him considering the number of teams that need to shed cap space next year but certainly a majority would have.

 

[NJDevs26]

And when a GM wants a certain item voted on by the BoG, you don't want to the team that was a complete *******.

Corporate politics are pretty serious business dude. You just don't get my point. You're bordering on hostility, without even a willingness to see my point of view.

I can say with near certainty that Lou wouldn't have put in a claim for RoR. And he'll ALWAYS make the team better.

Edit: It's not being able to acquire RoR for "free" if there's an intangible asset being moved - you're negotiating ability and respectability at the table of GMs. These guys are serious politicians.

Politics? How about the politics of a team whose owner was a major hawk during the CBA negotiations having their own GM be the one to throw out this offer sheet? Not to mention the double-talk out of Minnesota's owner over the summer about wanting to fix the system before and after shelling out $200 million for two hockey players. That's two examples off the top of my head where politics didn't apply.

GM's in particular don't give a **** about politics if a free opportunity to improve their team is there. Especially GM's whose own job is on the line.

 

[apice3*]

Something like three out of fifteen offer sheets have been 'successful' in terms of the team throwing out the offer sheet actually getting the player. If it's any kind of good player, it generally will be matched.

However, you can make life more difficult for your competitor down the road by doing it. You think GM's lost respect for Wilson sheeting Hjalmarsson on the cap-strapped Blackhawks, forcing them to let Niemi go (and conveniently scooping him up)? That was an example of one offer sheet that actually served a purpose, despite not getting the player.

And I agree with DATW that no 'politics' would have stopped teams claiming ROR, especially when you know other teams are doing it too, maybe not 100% of GM's would have claimed him considering the number of teams that need to shed cap space next year but certainly a majority would have.

Yeah offer sheets don't happen often and they rarely go unmatched.

I also believe the politics have no bearing. It may apply to no name players and guys like that, but all bets are off for a stud top 6 guy.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

We traded a 4th round pick for Poni and a 5th rounder for Loktionov. Who's to say we can't flip the "career AHL-er and 5th round pick, at most" for a roster player that does help the team.

And by the way, Tallinder and Volchenkov would both fetch more than that, especially Tallinder.

Do you watch either of them play and are you aware of their contracts? Any team with a half Pejorative Slured person for a scout would steer clear of those bozos. We should've dealt them ASAP after the cup run when they had significantly higher value. At this point well probably just be dumping their contracts in a trade and in return receive a 4th or 5th rounder.

 

[apice3*]

Do you watch either of them play and are you aware of their contracts? Any team with a half Pejorative Slured person for a scout would steer clear of those bozos. We should've dealt them ASAP after the cup run when they had significantly higher value. At this point well probably just be dumping their contracts in a trade and in return receive a 4th or 5th rounder.

I agree we should have been dealing someone in the offseason but if you think Tallinder is only worth a 5th you are incredibly naive. I'm not expecting Corey Perry in exchange but I've watched enough hockey in my lifetime to tell you teams overpay at the deadline.

And once again, a 4th and 5th rounder has landed us Poni and Loki. So Lou can possibly flip that "4th or 5th" you claim Tallinder is worth and steal another player, which after a little work, results in Tallinder being swapped for a 2nd/3rd liner. Everyone on this board takes that deal and runs.

 

[NJDevs26]

The difference between Tallinder and the other guys you mentioned is Tallinder had two years and almost $7 million left on his contract. He had almost no value in the offseason after missing much of the second half. I think Lou wanted him to play and up his value by the time almost half the money came off toward the deadline but it hasn't seemed to help the cause much.

 

[apice3*]

Tallinder = 1 more season, 3.4 cap hit, healthy scratch
Zidlicky last year = 1 more season, 4 mil cap hit, healthy scratch

Zidlicky fetched a 2nd, a conditional 3rd, an NHL d-man, an OK prospect, and an AHL player at the deadline.

Don't tell me Tallinder can only bring in a 5th at the deadline. Their situations and contracts are similar, and since Lou is a better GM, he can probably get even more than the Wild did for Zidlicky.

 

[hlaverty06]

STL seems to be honing in on Kulemin, Lou needs to ****ing do something

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

I wonder if Lou will go back to Jets and ask about Antropov.

I know he would be a one year stop gap but he had his best season to date in Atlanta playing with Kovalchuk. He can play both center and wing. And he is more suited to a top 6 role than Ponikarovsky or Matteau.

Plus, i dont think he will cost that much. Either a 3rd round pick or Winnipeg could use a veteran dman like Tallinder given Enstrom injury and Tallinder would be a better player than Clitsome or their rookie Postma.

 

[aboriginal]

antropov is sooooo bad tho. gahh

 

[Bologna 1]

As much as I love volch if Lou could.pull a sather I would be ecstatic

 

[CerebralGenesis]

A 5th would be stupid if that is all we could get. Better off holding the body til the offseason then.

 

[Bleedred]

A 5th would be stupid if that is all we could get. Better off holding the body til the offseason then.

Well yeah if all we can get is a 5th then I don't care if it's done in the offseason. It's nothing personal against Tallinder, and he might have played his best game of the season last night. It's just that we have too much money tied up in defensemen like DATW says. Too much money tied up in defensemen, and not enough in forwards.

 

[Oroku Saki*]

Volchenkov for Ryan Murphy. DATW's head asplodes.

 

[Devils Dominion]

Nick Foligno,pry him away from Columbus.

 

[Saugus]

Lou should have signed Semin when he had the chance. I was saying it all offseason. Huge mistake by Lou. If Lou offered him 1 year 7 million he woulda been a Devil

I still don't think he would have been a good fit here.

Volchenkov for Ryan Murphy. DATW's head asplodes.

That would be comical. I'd rather flip Volch for forward help though.

 

[Tretyak 20]

Volch isn't going anywhere. He's the only veteran physical presence we have on the back line. Same reason Zidlicky isn't getting moved. Tallinder is most likely the odd man out (unless someone makes an offer Lou can't refuse for Fayne or Greene).

...And the idea that Tallinder will only bring back a 5th is comical. Devils fans can really be like Eeyores sometimes.

 

[DatBoyJPP]

Who cares about veteran physical presence when he gets a penalty and coned every game? It's clockwork

 

[Tretyak 20]

Lou cares about veteran physical presence, and a lot of those penalties won;t be called come playoff time.

 

[Bleedred]

You guys don't wanna hear this and I really don't wanna think about this, but it could be a reality. It could come down to having to trade Fayne if we wanna get anything good. Fayne probably has more value than Tallinder anyway. He's younger, and is a on a much better contract. In fact he's on a very good contract. Tallinder is on a not very good contract that has another year remaining. Fayne is on a bargain contract that has another year remaining. I'd be open to doing it if it were another younger player that has another year left on their contract after this.

Sometimes you gotta compromise. Hopefully I'm wrong but having seen a lot of trades go down that I never expected, I've seen some shockers. I hope we can get something without the use of Fayne. I'm really adamant about trading away a couple prospect defensemen. Not Merrill or Gelinas though, but take Urbom and Burlon if you want.