Rumor: Trade Rumours Thread XIV: Rangers gauging interest on Callahan/Girardi

[NYR Viper]

Boyle is maybe overpayed by a couple of hundred, big deal. I'd take Boyle over Dorsett, less injured and would give his right arm for Rangers. Apparently a good locker room guy, you need those...and well yeah, he do actually have a higher PPG. And good at FO.


Regarding Stralman; if we can sign him at around 3-3,5, it's a no brainer, at that cap hit he is tradable or worth keeping if he continue to play like this.

Miller&Fasth are not being blocked, as usual, their spot is for them to take.

If I were Stralman, there is no way I take 3-3.5. If Girardi signs who is left on defense as a UFA? Dan Boyle? Matt Niskanen? Matt Greene? He will cash in.

 

[NYR Viper]

Why in the world would the rangers give Callahan 8 years under any circumstances?

Perhaps the thing I love most is the glossed over notion that "they can trade him in 3-4 years". Seen it a lot around here.

The reality of the situation is if the rangers don't want Callahan at age 33-34, nobody else will either

I really hate that line of thinking.

If you want to get rid of him in 4 years because you think he will start to be overpaid, why sign him to an 8 year deal? Makes no sense.

 

[Punxrocknyc19*]

i think the 3 players Rangers are scouting from the Avalanche are:


Jamie McGinn
Cody McLeod
Ryan O'Reilly (long-shot)

 

[Jackpot]

Yeah, I think Girardi's "demands" are more than reasonable. Sather should quit ****ing around and sign the guy.

Question you have to ask yourself, his contract demands are okay, but does he fit the system?

 

[NYR Viper]

i think the 3 players Rangers are scouting from the Avalanche are:


Jamie McGinn
Cody McLeod
Ryan O'Reilly (long-shot)

I don't think the Avs move either of the last 2. They just re-signed McLeod and he was wearing an 'A' the last time I saw him.

McGinn, maybe Barrie.

McGinn makes a lot of sense for the way AV wants to play and what the team needs. Size, strength, speed, still young, cost controlled.

 

[Matt4776]

Question you have to ask yourself, his contract demands are okay, but does he fit the system?

This is something I worry about. I love Girardi more than most on this board, and he is my second favorite player on this team behind Hagelin. But, I don't think a top-6 of McDonagh, Staal, Moore (on the left) and Girardi, Klein, and Stralman/McIlrath has enough offense.

Despite what people say about Staal bolting to Carolina, I think he's our future captain and he'll be here long-term. We just acquired Klein, so I don't think we'll see him move. The organization is still high on the skill-set of McIlrath, so he'll be a 3rd pairing staple for this team. I also love what Stralman brings to the team and the cost he does it at.

We need an OFD in the worst way on the right side.

 

[NYR Viper]

This is something I worry about. I love Girardi more than most on this board, and he is my second favorite player on this team behind Hagelin. But, I don't think a top-6 of McDonagh, Staal, Moore (on the left) and Girardi, Klein, and Stralman/McIlrath has enough offense.

Despite what people say about Staal bolting to Carolina, I think he's our future captain and he'll be here long-term. We just acquired Klein, so I don't think we'll see him move. The organization is still high on the skill-set of McIlrath, so he'll be a 3rd pairing staple for this team. I also love what Stralman brings to the team and the cost he does it at.

We need an OFD in the worst way on the right side.

Eh, they need an offensive d-man but people forget that Staal was showing more offense when he was last healthy. He was on pace for 35-40 points. He knows what to do. He is a good skater.

Moore has quite a bit of offense as well, they just need him to "get it". I think he will being paired with Klein.

I'm not overly worried about the offense from the back-end as long as they can quickly and effectively move the puck out of their own zone.

 

[Fitzy]

I still would like Byfuglien on the right side regardless of what happens with G.

Girardi
Byfuglien
Klein

COuld be a good set.

 

[EpicDing]

If we manage to land an OFD like Byfuglien or Green, this is probably one of the best D corps in the league.

 

[Matt4776]

I still would like Byfuglien on the right side regardless of what happens with G.

Girardi
Byfuglien
Klein

COuld be a good set.

I love Byfuglien for the PP. He's a pretty ****** defenseman, though.

Maybe he could be masked playing with McDonagh or Staal?

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I really hate that line of thinking.

If you want to get rid of him in 4 years because you think he will start to be overpaid, why sign him to an 8 year deal? Makes no sense.

There should be a rule in any front-office in sports. If you have to "support" a signing with "And if it doesn't work out, we can always trade him," just stop right there. Its a dead end.

 

[Ola]

James Mirtle ran the numbers. $75M cap for 15-16. $80M for 16-17.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...two-years/article15627506/#dashboard/follows/

Those numbers were with a stronger Canadian dollar in late November.

Allan Walsh‏@walsha10 dec
The NHL Board of Governors were advised today by the League that the Upper Limit to the Salary Cap should be set at $71M+ for next season.

Allan Walsh‏@walsha6 jan
1 year ago today, the NHL's 3rd lockout in history came to an end. Where are we now? Upper Limit projected to be near $80M within 2 seasons.

The Cap will only go from 71m to 75m between 14/15 and 15/16? That is the PA bumper with zero percent growth. I also think 80m is a tad high for 15/16, but the new TV money is coming into play.

Many are predicting that the floor in 15/16 will be what the cap is today.

Also, when predictions is made, they are made pretty good but they obviously don't speculate on which teams will go deep in the PO's. If you predict number X, and then get a lower Y, the numbers guy don't want to stand there saying that he thought Chicago would go deep while it turned out to be PHX and Anaheim playing the conference finals in the West. On the other side of that coin, we all know that the number reported by the league to its owners has been around a mil low every single year. Why? Big market teams goes deep.

We don't know if the NHL has hedged against the Loonie either. I believe its even stipulated in the CBA that the NHL can put some money in a fund to hedge against currency cost. The loonie was real high, don't seem that much of a reach.

Those Mirtle numbers is a joke BTW. He is counting on a 5 percent growth, the NHL's avg growth is 7 percent. Mirtle is not counting on the PA bumper. Despite the NHL averering 7% growth on avg during the worst financial crash ever, Mirtle seem to think he is going on a limb when counting on 5% growth over the course of the CBA. His numbers are also from November 2013.

The world has a debt crisis. The only way to get out of it is to get some inflation going, let the inflation eat up some debt, and do the right things in general. You know. Nobody will let their economy go the Japan route with zero inflation / border line deflation. People have learned, they will print money. Japan was afraid that they couldn't buy up half of the US anymore if they printed money, well China blew past them like no tomorrow and now even they have started to print money.

A business is also not growing like the industrial avg. Many many many business rise and fall flat all the time. When you grow, you grow. 9% on avg during decent years? My point is just, expect growth. Expect a lot of it.

I don't know if we can bank on 80 in two years, seems a bit high but so is the new TV-deal. But bank on a cap around 90m in 17/18. That is just 4 years down the road. How will expension effect the cap? A team in Hamilton will push it up, a team in Bettman territory can push it down some. Will it be a wash-out?

 

[OverTheCap]

There should be a rule in any front-office in sports. If you have to "support" a signing with "And if it doesn't work out, we can always trade him," just stop right there. Its a dead end.

Seems to Sather's mantra when signing free agents to multi-year deals- Gomez, Gaborik, Kotalik, and Rozy all traded during the duration of their contract. Redden, Drury, and in all likelihood, Richards, bought out. Apparently some fans must think this is a normal way to approach long-term contracts and forget that players are usually signed with the expectation that they will be effective throughout the length of their contract rather than trade bait about halfway through the term.

 

[Fitzy]

I love Byfuglien for the PP. He's a pretty ****** defenseman, though.

Maybe he could be masked playing with McDonagh or Staal?

Only if Staal knew to not ump in or pinch at any time. McDonagh I'd feel more comfortable with because of his ability to cover the ice, but that means we no longer can use him in a real shutdown pairing. Technically you could partner Staal-Girardi for that.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

The Cap will only go from 71m to 75m between 14/15 and 15/16? That is the PA bumper with zero percent growth. I also think 80m is a tad high for 15/16, but the new TV money is coming into play.

Many are predicting that the floor in 15/16 will be what the cap is today.

Also, when predictions is made, they are made pretty good but they obviously don't speculate on which teams will go deep in the PO's. If you predict number X, and then get a lower Y, the numbers guy don't want to stand there saying that he thought Chicago would go deep while it turned out to be PHX and Anaheim playing the conference finals in the West. On the other side of that coin, we all know that the number reported by the league to its owners has been around a mil low every single year. Why? Big market teams goes deep.

We don't know if the NHL has hedged against the Loonie either. I believe its even stipulated in the CBA that the NHL can put some money in a fund to hedge against currency cost. The loonie was real high, don't seem that much of a reach.

Callahan at 8 years/and around 6M per would be overpaid if there was no cap at all.

 

[Matt4776]

Only if Staal knew to not ump in or pinch at any time. McDonagh I'd feel more comfortable with because of his ability to cover the ice, but that means we no longer can use him in a real shutdown pairing. Technically you could partner Staal-Girardi for that.

As tempting as that is, I still wouldn't really want a defensive liability to be on our first pairing. He's better off as a RW that plays the point for the PP. If we're going to be paying over 5M for a 3rd line RW, though, it's going to be for Ryan Callahan, and not Dustin Byfuglien.

It's a shame too, cause he would really help our PP.

 

[Trxjw]

All of this "it'll be an acceptable cap hit based on the cap going up" talk makes one huge assumption, and that is that Callahan's play will remain at the current level throughout the duration of his contract. With a reduced role on both special teams, and an aging body, I can't for a second believe that his production will go anywhere but down.

Guys like him are coveted around the league because they're hard to find, but they're also extremely expensive to retain because some team desperate for intangibles will drastically overpay. Clarkson, Drury, Holik, Malone, etc. These guys get stupid money and never live up to the contract because they're either not worth it, or their bodies give up on them.

He's not a $6M per year player right now. That's not going to somehow change as he gets older.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

All of this "it'll be an acceptable cap hit based on the cap going up" talk makes one huge assumption, and that is that Callahan's play will remain at the current level throughout the duration of his contract. With a reduced role on both special teams, and an aging body, I can't for a second believe that his production will go anywhere but down.

Guys like him are coveted around the league because they're hard to find, but they're also extremely expensive to retain because some team desperate for intangibles will drastically overpay. Clarkson, Drury, Holik, Malone, etc. These guys get stupid money and never live up to the contract because they're either not worth it, or their bodies give up on them.

He's not a $6M per year player right now. That's not going to somehow change as he gets older.

Agreed. I dont know if he ever was a $6M player even when he was at his best which, as you mentioned, isn't right now -- and almost certainly won't be going forward.

 

[Tawnos]

All of this "it'll be an acceptable cap hit based on the cap going up" talk makes one huge assumption, and that is that Callahan's play will remain at the current level throughout the duration of his contract. With a reduced role on both special teams, and an aging body, I can't for a second believe that his production will go anywhere but down.

Uh... what? It makes the assumption that Callahan's play will decline, but that's okay because the relative amount of cap space he takes up will decline as well.

I'm curious to know something. A lot of people keep on saying that Callahan is not a $6m player. I'd like to know what exactly that is based on.

 

[Trxjw]

I don't think Richards is as important on the PP as it seems. He's more or less a passenger out there while guys like Brassard and Zuccarello make the dynamic plays. The same way Richards played off of Boyle, MSL and Lecavalier in Tampa, and again with Riberio and Eriksson in Dallas.

However, that doesn't mean we don't need a new point presence when he's gone. Byfuglien is a scrub defensively. I'd stay away. Green is better defensively, but he's very expensive. If we retain Girardi at $5.5M, we can't afford to have another $6M defender on the roster.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Clarkson, Drury, Holik, Malone, etc. These guys get stupid money and never live up to the contract because they're either not worth it, or their bodies give up on them.

I don't disagree. The only caveat I see is the guys you mentioned all left their current teams to take huge money elsewhere.

 

[Matt4776]

Uh... what? It makes the assumption that Callahan's play will decline, but that's okay because the relative amount of cap space he takes up will decline as well.

I'm curious to know something. A lot of people keep on saying that Callahan is not a $6m player. I'd like to know what exactly that is based on.

The other 6M players in the league.

http://capgeek.com/leaders/?type=CAP_HIT

Every player that is above 6M is either much better than Ryan Callahan, or, was much better than Ryan Callahan when his respective deal was signed.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

All of this "it'll be an acceptable cap hit based on the cap going up" talk makes one huge assumption, and that is that Callahan's play will remain at the current level throughout the duration of his contract. With a reduced role on both special teams, and an aging body, I can't for a second believe that his production will go anywhere but down.

Guys like him are coveted around the league because they're hard to find, but they're also extremely expensive to retain because some team desperate for intangibles will drastically overpay. Clarkson, Drury, Holik, Malone, etc. These guys get stupid money and never live up to the contract because they're either not worth it, or their bodies give up on them.

He's not a $6M per year player right now. That's not going to somehow change as he gets older.

Seriously. The Rangers themselves have made this mistake multiple times with guys like Drury and Holik and yet people want them to give Cally a Holik/Drury contract? Because somehow there's some difference between signing a guy who played last year in Buffalo or NJ as an UFA to a 7-year $42MM contract and re-upping one of our current players to that same 7-year $42MM contract? Somehow the fact that he's home-grown will magically protect him from breaking down and becoming an albatross against the cap? Does not compute.

 

[NYR Viper]

Uh... what? It makes the assumption that Callahan's play will decline, but that's okay because the relative amount of cap space he takes up will decline as well.

I'm curious to know something. A lot of people keep on saying that Callahan is not a $6m player. I'd like to know what exactly that is based on.

While this is true, I am going to venture a guess that towards the end of his contract, his play will be deteriorating faster than the cap will be rising. I have seen these types of players enough over the years to feel I have a good idea of what will happen to him as a player.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Uh... what? It makes the assumption that Callahan's play will decline, but that's okay because the relative amount of cap space he takes up will decline as well.

I'm curious to know something. A lot of people keep on saying that Callahan is not a $6m player. I'd like to know what exactly that is based on.

Well, for starters, that an overwhelming # of players making $6M per year are better than Ryan Callahan.

In regards to his cap hit vs. increasing cap space, I think its a pretty poor argument. Its basically placating the thought that Callahan's play will decline, but its OK to overpay him because there will be more room to do so.