Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals PART XXXXX

[SweSensFan]

It's a tough nut to crack, we are already one of the top teams in xGF, SCF, and HDCF per 60 all situations, so what adjustments can we really make to score more? I guess we over pass from time to time and would be better served to get the puck on net. On the flip side, things are more apparent when it comes to preventing goals against, we allow a lot of chances, and we have some chaotic moments that appear preventable.

You're right that we need to score more goals, and that we are preventing them at a respectable level, but when it comes to tangible actions/changes that can be taken to improve future results, I think there is more that can be done to improve the defensive play.

Biggest thing that will help on both fronts imo is getting Norris back, but that's out of our hands.

We need to score more dirty goals on 5vs5, only 4 goals and 31st place in the league in scoring on rebounds, only Edmonton are behind us. Fine to score the pretty goals on pp but in 5vs5 there will not be enough opportunities, we need to play harder in front of the net!

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Well he's waiver eligible next season so it's pretty much a given that if he's going to be viewed as a long term piece he needs to take a step this year, same goes for Thomson though last I heard he hasn't had a great season (though it's been a while since I've heard anything about his progress)

Acknowledged but that was not the question.

I guess we will find out very soon if he was papered down or sent down. I have not heard anything on this.

 

[Micklebot]

The thing is us not finishing well is not indictive of either talent nor effort. That means it's basically a mixture of luck and most importantly system. If we have a better system we'd finish much better 5om5 which means boom we'd be deadly.

Can you elaborate on how the system impacts finishing on chances created?

I get how changes to the system might create more chances, or better chances, but the xGF, SCF, and HDCF data already suggests we are creating a good volume and quality of chances.

Idk, I'm not seeing systemic issues offensively, I see us not capitalizing on chances, having some guys slotted too high due to injuries hurting the 2nd and 3rd lines, but the chances are there most nights. We have been guilty of overpassing lately, which might be tied to a lack of confidence, trying get the perfect play because things haven't been going in.

 

[Micklebot]

We need to score more dirty goals on 5vs5, only 4 goals and 31st place in the league in scoring on rebounds, only Edmonton are behind us. Fine to score the pretty goals on pp but in 5vs5 there will not be enough opportunities, we need to play harder in front of the net!

Ok, so we aren't scoring on rebounds, but we do have the 8th most rebound shots on goal at 5v5, how do you propose we increase our sh% on rebounds, outside of "play harder" since play harder isn't really a system.

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

Just a small piece to comment on this morning.

PD has been trying to trade Zaitsev since the summer, it’s become a priority now because they want to use the cap space on another D.

They really wanted JBD to take the next step this season, but the ankle sprain has derailed that for the moment.

I am assuming its a priority now because they have a deal in place for a potential Dman?

 

[Sun God Nika]

Interesting thought. (for me atleast)

Would you guys be comfortable throwing in Boucher in as a sweetener with Zaitsev to clear his caphit?

I am not as down as this board on Boucher. I think he can be a solid third liner in a few years.

 

[bert]

I am assuming its a priority now because they have a deal in place for a potential Dman?

Unless they plan on trading Debrincat they arent adding a D man.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Acknowledged but that was not the question.

I guess we will find out very soon if he was papered down or sent down. I have not heard anything on this.

Update: I just heard on 1200 JR said that JBD has been sent down. He thought it might have been a paper transaction but it was not.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Just a small piece to comment on this morning.

PD has been trying to trade Zaitsev since the summer, it’s become a priority now because they want to use the cap space on another D.

They really wanted JBD to take the next step this season, but the ankle sprain has derailed that for the moment.

Thought he played well coming back from the injury.

Unless they plan on trading Debrincat they arent adding a D man.

I don’t know if this is true. It’s very clear they’ve been trying to acquire a d man for a while without moving debrincat.

And it’s still their objective

 

[Micklebot]

Update: I just heard on 1200 JR said that JBD has been sent down. He thought it might have been a paper transaction but it was not.

If they plan on playing Holden and Brannstrom ahead of him it makes sense, get him icetime in Belleville over sitting in the press box. I'm not thrilled that we're playing Holden over him but I don't think it's too big of a deal.

 

[aragorn]

We need to score more dirty goals on 5vs5, only 4 goals and 31st place in the league in scoring on rebounds, only Edmonton are behind us. Fine to score the pretty goals on pp but in 5vs5 there will not be enough opportunities, we need to play harder in front of the net!

I imagine guys like Ostapchuk & Boucher will help with rebound goals.

 

[aragorn]

The top 8, the goaltending and the PK/PP. We're top 10 with both special teams.

Idk what to say about Joseph. He's been the only guy on the line that's not playing above slot. Let's see how he does with properly slotted linemates before he takes a huge amount of criticism.

Defence. You know the numbers are very clear: in order to improve we need to score more. 17th in the league in Ga/60, which includes being near the top in empty netters against. 10. We've given up 10 empty netters. I can recall 1 game giving up 2, so 9 games we've lost by a goal.

How would a goal look in 6 of those games? It'd look like 8-10 more points which would look like a playoff position

The fact that they have so many empty net goals against is an indication that they have been in a lot of one goal games & have improved dramatically from last yr where they got blown out much more often. As they age some of their young player mistakes should go away & the defensive part of their game should improve, at least I hope so.

Without Talbot the goaltending becomes suspect, they either need to re-sign him for a few yrs or start looking for a replacement who is as good or hopefully better. They also need JBD to step up next yr & take a regular spot & they will need a stud defensive defenceman at some point. They have plenty of good prospects to fill out the bottom six & the top six is pretty much set.

 

[JD1]

It's a tough nut to crack, we are already one of the top teams in xGF, SCF, and HDCF per 60 all situations, so what adjustments can we really make to score more? I guess we over pass from time to time and would be better served to get the puck on net. On the flip side, things are more apparent when it comes to preventing goals against, we allow a lot of chances, and we have some chaotic moments that appear preventable.

You're right that we need to score more goals, and that we are preventing them at a respectable level, but when it comes to tangible actions/changes that can be taken to improve future results, I think there is more that can be done to improve the defensive play.

Biggest thing that will help on both fronts imo is getting Norris back, but that's out of our hands.

System adjustments can have positive or negative effects on xGF, SCF and HDCF, but not GF per se. Guys need to put the puck in the net.

Simply shooting more frequently on 2 on 1s would be a start. A missed pass doesn't impact HDCF or xGF but it's a clear scoring opportunity

The thing is us not finishing well is not indictive of either talent nor effort. That means it's basically a mixture of luck and most importantly system. If we have a better system we'd finish much better 5om5 which means boom we'd be deadly.

No, it doesn't mean system

 

[Samsquanch]

Unless they plan on trading Debrincat they arent adding a D man.

I dunno, if they manage to dump Zaitsev then I can see them adding another D fore sure. Or at least the dollars will be there if they find a deal that works for them.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Interesting thought. (for me atleast)

Would you guys be comfortable throwing in Boucher in as a sweetener with Zaitsev to clear his caphit?

I am not as down as this board on Boucher. I think he can be a solid third liner in a few years.

No but if we can't improve the D without doing it then we have to do it.

Not improving the D means we go nowhere.

 

[aragorn]

Everyone in our top six right now have shown they can score & if we add Norris he has shown he can score as well. With the addition of Norris that would push Pinto down a line which means we add a scorer to the bottom six. If Formenton returns he has shown in the past that he can score as well & would be a good addition to Pinto. If Sokolov graduates next yr he has shown he can score in the AHL & if added to those two could create another scoring line.

The top six is pretty much set & they could already have the makings of a very good 3rd line with Pinto, Formenton, Greig or Sokolov. And they have enough good prospects/players to fill out a 4th line with Kastelic, Ostapchuk, Boucher, Joseph & Kelly. If Talbot is re-signed for another couple of yrs the goaltending could also be set. It's the defence that needs one good offensive defenceman & one good defensive defenceman but whether they can fit them all in their budget is another question.

 

[GCK]

If they plan on playing Holden and Brannstrom ahead of him it makes sense, get him icetime in Belleville over sitting in the press box. I'm not thrilled that we're playing Holden over him but I don't think it's too big of a deal.

If JBD was going to sit tonight for Brannstrom then it makes sense. Belleville plays 2 games this week. I think JBD is back up before we head out on the road.

 

[JD1]

The fact that they have so many empty net goals against is an indication that they have been in a lot of one goal games & have improved dramatically from last yr where they got blown out much more often. As they age some of their young player mistakes should go away & the defensive part of their game should improve, at least I hope so.

Without Talbot the goaltending becomes suspect, they either need to re-sign him for a few yrs or start looking for a replacement who is as good or hopefully better. They also need JBD to step up next yr & take a regular spot & they will need a stud defensive defenceman at some point. They have plenty of good prospects to fill out the bottom six & the top six is pretty much set.

The one goal games are definitely indicative of us being in games and not being blown out.

But most here harp on improving our defence/goals against. That's achievable but results are relatively harder to obtain given that our offence is worse.

It's far easier to take something and move it from the back of the pack to the middle than moving something from the middle of the pack to the top of the pack.

Everyone wants another D. It's somewhat of a league wide generic statement

Look at our offence. A bunch of guys pacing in the 28-32 range. It's not cutting it. That's not getting it done. Go back to the summer and we were talking about having a top 10 offence. Goals for at even strength, we are 29th. SJ is 10th at 2.67/60 compared to our 2.07/60. The difference is .6 goals per game. We've played 37 games, and that difference is 22 goals.

Our goal differential is -4. Those 22 goals put us at +18. Where you figure +18 puts you in the standings? I'm willing to take a wild guess that in the modern NHL there has NEVER been a team that ends +18 and misses the playoffs. Buffalo is trending which would be the most buffalo thing ever.

The irony of it is if we were a top 10 5 on 5 goal scoring team, in here the talk would be about our improved defensive performance

 

[Senator Stanley]

Interesting thought. (for me atleast)

Would you guys be comfortable throwing in Boucher in as a sweetener with Zaitsev to clear his caphit?

I am not as down as this board on Boucher. I think he can be a solid third liner in a few years.

Boucher is probably more valuable in the eyes of the Sens organization than any other organization in the league, given where we selected him, which means he's probably not the right guy to use as a sweetener. If we see him as an A-level prospect, it doesn't make sense to trade him to a team that only values him as a B-level prospect.

 

[Micklebot]

If JBD was going to sit tonight for Brannstrom then it makes sense. Belleville plays 2 games this week. I think JBD is back up before we head out on the road.

DJ likes Holden on his bottom pair to provide a PK option and when defending a lead and with Brannstrom back I think JBD was the odd man out.

JBD missed a lot of time to the high ankle sprain so getting him as much game time as possible right now is key, but I agree he should be back soon.

 

[aragorn]

The one goal games are definitely indicative of us being in games and not being blown out.

But most here harp on improving our defence/goals against. That's achievable but results are relatively harder to obtain given that our offence is worse.

It's far easier to take something and move it from the back of the pack to the middle than moving something from the middle of the pack to the top of the pack.

Everyone wants another D. It's somewhat of a league wide generic statement

Look at our offence. A bunch of guys pacing in the 28-32 range. It's not cutting it. That's not getting it done. Go back to the summer and we were talking about having a top 10 offence. Goals for at even strength, we are 29th. SJ is 10th at 2.67/60 compared to our 2.07/60. The difference is .6 goals per game. We've played 37 games, and that difference is 22 goals.

Our goal differential is -4. Those 22 goals put us at +18. Where you figure +18 puts you in the standings? I'm willing to take a wild guess that in the modern NHL there has NEVER been a team that ends +18 and misses the playoffs. Buffalo is trending which would be the most buffalo thing ever.

The irony of it is if we were a top 10 5 on 5 goal scoring team, in here the talk would be about our improved defensive performance

Everyone in our top six can score right now & if we add Norris to that it gets even better & we push Pinto down a line where he can improve that line. If Formenton returns next yr he would be another goal scorer who can compliment Pinto. If Sokolov graduates he could be added to those two to create another scoring line. They also have three other good young potential NHL players coming in Ostapchuk, Greig & Boucher that should improve the bottom six. Goal scoring I don't think will be a problem, injuries though seem to be with this team.

These guys are mostly all young & still learning how to be great hockey NHL players. Those stats are today, but what is the future going to look like for these guys who have yet to enter their prime & reach their potential? While we all want them to be great now it takes time & as they reduce their young player mistakes & get better offensively IMO this team will start to become more consistent & more effective. They also need to re-sign Talbot or find another goalie as good which won't be easy & improve the defence.

 

[armani]

Zaitsev holds JBD’s spot. If they can’t trade Zaitsev, they might send him down again after giving JBD reps at Belleville. Even if Ottawa is able to replace Zaitsev with a solid NHL top-4, I still see JBD up at some point to take a spot on the 23-man roster.

JBD is the closest to graduate, he doesn’t bring much offence but he is steady and ready to bring his game to the next level.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Formenton is never going to play in the NHL again.

 

[HSF]

Interesting thought. (for me atleast)

Would you guys be comfortable throwing in Boucher in as a sweetener with Zaitsev to clear his caphit?

I am not as down as this board on Boucher. I think he can be a solid third liner in a few years.

zero chance

value aside the optics will look bad

 

[Micklebot]

The one goal games are definitely indicative of us being in games and not being blown out.

But most here harp on improving our defence/goals against. That's achievable but results are relatively harder to obtain given that our offence is worse.

It's far easier to take something and move it from the back of the pack to the middle than moving something from the middle of the pack to the top of the pack.

Everyone wants another D. It's somewhat of a league wide generic statement

Look at our offence. A bunch of guys pacing in the 28-32 range. It's not cutting it. That's not getting it done. Go back to the summer and we were talking about having a top 10 offence. Goals for at even strength, we are 29th. SJ is 10th at 2.67/60 compared to our 2.07/60. The difference is .6 goals per game. We've played 37 games, and that difference is 22 goals.

Our goal differential is -4. Those 22 goals put us at +18. Where you figure +18 puts you in the standings? I'm willing to take a wild guess that in the modern NHL there has NEVER been a team that ends +18 and misses the playoffs. Buffalo is trending which would be the most buffalo thing ever.

The irony of it is if we were a top 10 5 on 5 goal scoring team, in here the talk would be about our improved defensive performance

Here's the real question though, how do we improve our GF, what do we do to improve.

The levers available to enact change areas important as where we currently stand. Outside of getting Norris back, I don't see much we can do to improve the offense, at least not directly. We already get the chances, our top 6 forwards are all capable of finishing even if they haven't been getting it done 5v5 lately.

So what do we do to improve GF?

On the flip side, I think we can do more to improve personnel on the back end, we can do more to limit rebound chances and DZ giveaways.

Interestingly from an xGF perspective

xGF/60 2.35 (23rd) last year vs 2.85 (6th) this year
xGA/60 2.66 (25th) last year vs 2.65 (18th) this year

To me at least this aligns more with the eye test than the actual goals do, I see more improvement offensively than defensively. League scoring is on the rise so I intuitively see the rankings as more indicative than the raw per 60 numbers,