Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals PART XXXXX

[GCK]

The Leafs top 4 are low 40s or so aren't they... comparatively our top 4 up front with DeBrincat at 9 would be about 33

I said top 6 not top 4. Bunting is under 1M and they shuffle the other winger between Kerfoot and a bunch of guys under 1M.

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

I wouldnt mind a swing on Jansen Harkins on waivers, depending on how far out our guys are from returning. Low-event 4th liner/extra forward and a very good AHLer - not sure we could get him down, but if we could, he'd be a much needed addition.

Yep, can’t be worse than Gambrell. Currently outproducing basically all of our bottom 6.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

I think Sens still looking to get Chychrun ...moving Zaitsev is a must...until he is off the books its not happening

Tbh, I can see Sens going after Chychrun and then trading Chabot. Would be risky but would solve $$$ issues and we'd get back similar player(who likely has injury risk too).

Don't think I would be for it because in 2 years, Chabot's contract will look like a bargain and Chychrun will be looking at more.

 

[aragorn]

The top 8 pt producers are basically carrying this team along with the goaltending. If they were to re-sign DeBrincat & Formenton & promote Sokolov for next season they would have 3 lines set. Sokolov IMO would bring much more offence to the 3rd line than Joseph has been able to. They should also have Ostapchuk, Greig, Boucher & Jarventie in Belleville waiting for a callup along with Luccini & Chartier if they decide to re-sign as callups.

Tkachuk - Norris - Giroux
DeBrincat - Stutzle - Batherson
Formenton - Pinto - Sokolov
Kelly - Kastelic - Joseph/Gambrell

Defence is going to continue to be a point of contention, IMO they will have to upgrade the 3rd pairing at the least. Kleven could eventually replace Brannstrom on that 3rd pairing LD spot to give them more size & toughness & a PK player, but who knows when he will be NHL ready. Maybe they will add two vets for that 3rd pairing if they can move Zaitsev out & if they don't re-sign Hamonic. I don't see them playing Brannstrom with either JBD or Thomson, they need to upgrade from Brannstrom as well. NJD have two UFA defencemen who could both help Ottawa in Severson RD & Graves LD.

Chabot - Zub
Sanderson - JBD
Brannstrom - Hamonic/Thomson

Should be interesting to see if Talbot is re-signed & for how much? Maybe they will make a move for Hellberg again if he is available. Sens will need good goaltending again next yr or it will be much of the same.

Talbot - Forsberg

 

[HSF]

I think it’s more about paying the top 6 about 45M which matches the leafs. The leafs have the 2 best players out of both top 6 groups.

I think Stuztle will be marner level but at center. No one touches matthew but the sens also are clearing out Giroux's 6.5 in 2 more season so that number drops. The Sens can build a very strong top 6 which is deep. Its a good move to make.

 

[GCK]

I think Stuztle will be marner level but at center. No one touches matthew but the sens also are clearing out Giroux's 6.5 in 2 more season so that number drops. The Sens can build a very strong top 6 which is deep. Its a good move to make.

The other thing we don’t have is guys like Spezza and Gio playing on league minimum deals.

 

[HSF]

The other thing we don’t have is guys like Spezza and Gio playing on league minimum deals.

yup but they will need cheap vets which is possible to get if the cap stays flat this summer

Sens need to show they are good and you need a good GM who can sell vets on this team

 

[GCK]

yup but they will need cheap vets which is possible to get if the cap stays flat this summer

Sens need to show they are good and you need a good GM who can sell vets on this team

Who are the cheap capable vets who signed for 1M around the league this past offseason. We got Motte at 1.35, who else.

 

[Big Muddy]

no its seems like the narrative by some here is that it will be hard to keep players cause we will need to sign cheap players to fill out the bottom 6.

Thats the norm in the nhl for teams near the cap. It is not easy but when is running an NHL team easy

You are better off keeping stars and spending less on the bottom guys

LOL. It has nothing to do with that.

I look at the numbers in #1,217 and see that it's within $250k of the cap ceiling with a number of assumptions and risks noted.

I'm assuming that I along with everyone else (you included) wants to have Debrincat and Talbot (or comparable goalie) which have been incorporated in that projection. So yes, the strategy or goal is to keep the stars obviously.

The rest of the players are already under contract, or are very low cost/ELC players. There were 6 sub $900 k forwards listed, plus one (1) at $925, and 2 sub $900 k defenders. So, saying that there will be cheap players filling out the bottom six is not a new idea or concept. It has already been incorporated in the projection.

So, then I look back over the assumptions (risks) and note that there's no wiggle room for injuries, no performance bonuses, and assumptions that getting rid of Zaitsev and Joseph won't involve taking salary back. So, I conclude that it might work, and it might not, and it will depend on how the assumptions/risks pan out. All of this doesn't include finding a good dman to play with Sanderson for $3.1 m.

So, in conclusion, what I am really saying is that all of the nice things we'd like (Debrincat, another good goalie, and another top RD) might not be feasible. It might work, it might not. It can go either way depending on how the assumptions pan out. It seems like achieving 2 of those 3 goals has high probability of occurring and is the more sure scenario.

 

[Big Muddy]

Who are the cheap capable vets who signed for 1M around the league this past offseason. We got Motte at 1.35, who else.

Yep, it's going to be very hard to do that.

Most of these roster/salary projections already had lots (8) of inexpensive (sub $900 k) players or ELCs filling out the bottom six (and the bottom part of defense). Is the goal to not go with ELCs to save $50k (or thereabouts) with a low end free agent? And, is 8 inexpensive players not enough? Why do we bother drafting if we don't plan on playing the players we draft?

 

[HSF]

Who are the cheap capable vets who signed for 1M around the league this past offseason. We got Motte at 1.35, who else.

krejci 1mill/1year
johnson 950k/1year
helm 1.25
cousins 2 years at 1.1per
acciari 1.25mill
bjugstad 900k
lewis 800k
Poolman 750k
johansson 1.1mill
benning 1.25 mill
janmark 1.2mill

just a few when i quickly went down the list of signing . there are more on it. All those guys can fill a 4th line role easily

We also have Greig, Kastelic, kelly who will fill 3/5 spots. Maybe Boucher aswell. Motte could stick around

 

[HSF]

LOL. It has nothing to do with that.

I look at the numbers in #1,217 and see that it's within $250k of the cap ceiling with a number of assumptions and risks noted.

I'm assuming that I along with everyone else (you included) wants to have Debrincat and Talbot (or comparable goalie) which have been incorporated in that projection. So yes, the strategy or goal is to keep the stars obviously.

The rest of the players are already under contract, or are very low cost/ELC players. There were 6 sub $900 k players listed, plus one (1) at $925k. So, saying that there will be cheap players filling out the bottom six is not a new idea or concept. It has already been incorporated in the projection.

So, then I look back over the assumptions (risks) and note that there's no wiggle room for injuries, no performance bonuses, and assumptions that getting rid of Zaitsev and Joseph won't involve taking salary back. So, I conclude that it might work, and it might not, and it will depend on how the assumptions/risks pan out. All of this doesn't include finding a good dman to play with Sanderson for $3.1 m.

So, in conclusion, what I am really saying is that all of the nice things we'd like (Debrincat, another good goalie, and another top RD) might not be feasible. It might work, it might not. It can go either way depending on how the assumptions pan out. It seems like achieving 2 of those 3 goals has high probability of occurring and is the more sure scenario.

so a whole bunch of nothing. It could work or it could not work? Yes you are right in that sense. If we have the right people in place then it should work. Injuries aren't a huge issues as the season goes. There will be cap savings on the way with injuries and playing around with the roster size at the start of the season. Also I would say the goaltending situation is up in the air. There could be ways to find savings there is Forsberg is just a backup

it will take a good staff and GM as other teams and could potentially even have to use LTIR space. Excited to see new ownership implement changes

 

[UglyPuckling]

The Leafs top 4 are low 40s or so aren't they... comparatively our top 4 up front with DeBrincat at 9 would be about 33

I think Pinto is an obvious bridge and I don't think he gets 3m on a bridge which is a number I see floated here occasionally. He's got pretty limited leverage.

We already have 4 core players at around $8 m or more. Sanderson & Debrincat would make it six and we'd be around $49 m total I'd guess with those six.

I noticed that 2 players (similar situation) on St. Louis had $2.8 m x 2 year bridges. Allowing for higher taxes and 2 years of inflation, I came up with $3 m.

 

[Big Muddy]

so a whole bunch of nothing. It could work or it could not work? Yes you are right in that sense. If we have the right people in place then it should work. Injuries aren't a huge issues as the season goes. There will be cap savings on the way with injuries and playing around with the roster size at the start of the season. Also I would say the goaltending situation is up in the air. There could be ways to find savings there is Forsberg is just a backup

it will take a good staff and GM as other teams and could potentially even have to use LTIR space. Excited to see new ownership implement changes

Nothing LOL. So, on the injury situation, now we can't have an injury too early in the season.? I'd call that a risk. And, there were additional risks - multiple risks.

Regarding goalies, I think looking at #1,229 (free agent goalies) would be useful.

Less than 10% of NHL teams have less than 22 players. Must be a reason for that.

Also, your list (#1,261) only had 2 players that were sub $900k. The roster/salary projections (#1217 is worth a closer look) that have been posted that I've been referring to already had eight (8) sub $900 k players plus one at $925k.

Sure, we'd all like to sign Debrincat, Talbot (or equivalent) and add quality to our defense, but I'll stick with what I said before, namely that we are far more likely to achieve only 2 of those 3 objectives. I'd love if my conclusion is wrong. Hope for the best.

 

[HSF]

So, on the injury situation, now we can't have an injury too early in the season.? I'd call that a risk. And, there were additional risks - multiple risks.

Regarding goalies, I think looking at #1,229 (free agent goalies) would be useful.

Less than 10% of NHL teams have less than 22 players. Must be a reason for that.

Also, your list (#1,261) only had 2 players that were sub $900k. The roster/salary projections that have been posted that I've been referring to already had six (6) sub $900 k players plus one at $925k.

Sure, we'd all like to sign Debrincat, Talbot (or equivalent) and add to our defense, but I'll stick with what I said before, namely that we are far more likely to achieve only 2 of those 3 objectives

Teams start with less players at the start of the year to fit under the cap. Same reason why Toronto was able to call players up after they opened up LTIR with Muzzin

Its a risk sure but better to maximize the talent on your team and worry about fitting in 4th liners if needed. Again who said being a GM is an easy jobs? The top teams skirt the cap and know how to do it very very well and have the staff in place to understand that

Ottawa should be in that category for a couple of years if they want to contend. the sens can absolutely fit in DBC and Talbot ( I don't think he is a must) for next year then a bunch of cap opens up and the cap goes up (I still think we may see the cap go up more this offseason)

There is no issue with filling out the roster with cheap contracts if you want to keep your talented players

 

[Big Muddy]

Teams start with less players at the start of the year to fit under the cap. Same reason why Toronto was able to call players up after they opened up LTIR with Muzzin

Its a risk sure but better to maximize the talent on your team and worry about fitting in 4th liners if needed. Again who said being a GM is an easy jobs? The top teams skirt the cap and know how to do it very very well and have the staff in place to understand that

Ottawa should be in that category for a couple of years if they want to contend. the sens can absolutely fit in DBC and Talbot ( I don't think he is a must) for next year then a bunch of cap opens up and the cap goes up (I still think we may see the cap go up more this offseason)

There is no issue with filling out the roster with cheap contracts if you want to keep your talented players

I understand these broad concepts that you keep stating. Everyone does.

The cheap contracts you keep referring to have already been incorporated in these projections, so no idea why you keep repeating it. If you look at post #1217, 8 players were sub $900k: #7, 9, 10, 11, 12, 18, 21 & 22.

Its the details particularly when it comes to risks and multiple optimistic assumptions where the differences lie. There's been a lot of good posts with roster & salary projections. Not sure straying away from those numbers (they are more logical & compelling) and repeating what's already been said will add much more at this point.

 

[Que]

I think our two highest value targets might be Kevin Hayes and Kevin Shattenkirk. I’m also curious about Hoglander and Louzon.

Imo we need help in the bottom 6, size and a reliable top 4D.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

IMO any help to the bottom 6 should be good bargain. Max I'd spend is 2 million a la Jarnkrok.

Our priority is to get someone like TB did with McDonagh.

 

[JD1]

The top 8 pt producers are basically carrying this team along with the goaltending. If they were to re-sign DeBrincat & Formenton & promote Sokolov for next season they would have 3 lines set. Sokolov IMO would bring much more offence to the 3rd line than Joseph has been able to. They should also have Ostapchuk, Greig, Boucher & Jarventie in Belleville waiting for a callup along with Luccini & Chartier if they decide to re-sign as callups.

Tkachuk - Norris - Giroux
DeBrincat - Stutzle - Batherson
Formenton - Pinto - Sokolov
Kelly - Kastelic - Joseph/Gambrell

Defence is going to continue to be a point of contention, IMO they will have to upgrade the 3rd pairing at the least. Kleven could eventually replace Brannstrom on that 3rd pairing LD spot to give them more size & toughness & a PK player, but who knows when he will be NHL ready. Maybe they will add two vets for that 3rd pairing if they can move Zaitsev out & if they don't re-sign Hamonic. I don't see them playing Brannstrom with either JBD or Thomson, they need to upgrade from Brannstrom as well. NJD have two UFA defencemen who could both help Ottawa in Severson RD & Graves LD.

Chabot - Zub
Sanderson - JBD
Brannstrom - Hamonic/Thomson

Should be interesting to see if Talbot is re-signed & for how much? Maybe they will make a move for Hellberg again if he is available. Sens will need good goaltending again next yr or it will be much of the same.

Talbot - Forsberg

The top 8, the goaltending and the PK/PP. We're top 10 with both special teams.

Idk what to say about Joseph. He's been the only guy on the line that's not playing above slot. Let's see how he does with properly slotted linemates before he takes a huge amount of criticism.

Defence. You know the numbers are very clear: in order to improve we need to score more. 17th in the league in Ga/60, which includes being near the top in empty netters against. 10. We've given up 10 empty netters. I can recall 1 game giving up 2, so 9 games we've lost by a goal.

How would a goal look in 6 of those games? It'd look like 8-10 more points which would look like a playoff position

 

[Micklebot]

The top 8, the goaltending and the PK/PP. We're top 10 with both special teams.

Idk what to say about Joseph. He's been the only guy on the line that's not playing above slot. Let's see how he does with properly slotted linemates before he takes a huge amount of criticism.

Defence. You know the numbers are very clear: in order to improve we need to score more. 17th in the league in Ga/60, which includes being near the top in empty netters against. 10. We've given up 10 empty netters. I can recall 1 game giving up 2, so 9 games we've lost by a goal.

How would a goal look in 6 of those games? It'd look like 8-10 more points which would look like a playoff position

It's a tough nut to crack, we are already one of the top teams in xGF, SCF, and HDCF per 60 all situations, so what adjustments can we really make to score more? I guess we over pass from time to time and would be better served to get the puck on net. On the flip side, things are more apparent when it comes to preventing goals against, we allow a lot of chances, and we have some chaotic moments that appear preventable.

You're right that we need to score more goals, and that we are preventing them at a respectable level, but when it comes to tangible actions/changes that can be taken to improve future results, I think there is more that can be done to improve the defensive play.

Biggest thing that will help on both fronts imo is getting Norris back, but that's out of our hands.

 

[benjiv1]

Just a small piece to comment on this morning.

PD has been trying to trade Zaitsev since the summer, it’s become a priority now because they want to use the cap space on another D.

They really wanted JBD to take the next step this season, but the ankle sprain has derailed that for the moment.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I think our two highest value targets might be Kevin Hayes and Kevin Shattenkirk. I’m also curious about Hoglander and Louzon.

Imo we need help in the bottom 6, size and a reliable top 4D.

Hayes is making over 7 million, he’s out.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Just a small piece to comment on this morning.

PD has been trying to trade Zaitsev since the summer, it’s become a priority now because they want to use the cap space on another D.

They really wanted JBD to take the next step this season, but the ankle sprain has derailed that for the moment.

Is that JBD tidbit something you have heard?

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

The top 8 pt producers are basically carrying this team along with the goaltending. If they were to re-sign DeBrincat & Formenton & promote Sokolov for next season they would have 3 lines set. Sokolov IMO would bring much more offence to the 3rd line than Joseph has been able to. They should also have Ostapchuk, Greig, Boucher & Jarventie in Belleville waiting for a callup along with Luccini & Chartier if they decide to re-sign as callups.

Tkachuk - Norris - Giroux
DeBrincat - Stutzle - Batherson
Formenton - Pinto - Sokolov
Kelly - Kastelic - Joseph/Gambrell

Defence is going to continue to be a point of contention, IMO they will have to upgrade the 3rd pairing at the least. Kleven could eventually replace Brannstrom on that 3rd pairing LD spot to give them more size & toughness & a PK player, but who knows when he will be NHL ready. Maybe they will add two vets for that 3rd pairing if they can move Zaitsev out & if they don't re-sign Hamonic. I don't see them playing Brannstrom with either JBD or Thomson, they need to upgrade from Brannstrom as well. NJD have two UFA defencemen who could both help Ottawa in Severson RD & Graves LD.

Chabot - Zub
Sanderson - JBD
Brannstrom - Hamonic/Thomson

Should be interesting to see if Talbot is re-signed & for how much? Maybe they will make a move for Hellberg again if he is available. Sens will need good goaltending again next yr or it will be much of the same.

Talbot - Forsberg

Greig should definitely play on the 4th line next year in this scenario.

It's a tough nut to crack, we are already one of the top teams in xGF, SCF, and HDCF per 60 all situations, so what adjustments can we really make to score more? I guess we over pass from time to time and would be better served to get the puck on net. On the flip side, things are more apparent when it comes to preventing goals against, we allow a lot of chances, and we have some chaotic moments that appear preventable.

You're right that we need to score more goals, and that we are preventing them at a respectable level, but when it comes to tangible actions/changes that can be taken to improve future results, I think there is more that can be done to improve the defensive play.

Biggest thing that will help on both fronts imo is getting Norris back, but that's out of our hands.

The thing is us not finishing well is not indictive of either talent nor effort. That means it's basically a mixture of luck and most importantly system. If we have a better system we'd finish much better 5om5 which means boom we'd be deadly.

 

[Micklebot]

Is that JBD tidbit something you have heard?

Well he's waiver eligible next season so it's pretty much a given that if he's going to be viewed as a long term piece he needs to take a step this year, same goes for Thomson though last I heard he hasn't had a great season (though it's been a while since I've heard anything about his progress)