Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals PART XXXXX

[bert]

Call me crazy but I think it might be in our best interest to move Talbot at the deadline.

He's 35, so really not a long term investment, and right now there are a bunch of contending teams with a weakness in net who might pay a premium for an experienced guy on an expiring contract.

At the very least I don't think Talbot is that good where keeping him is essential.

He's just not in the budget with or without Zaitsev. I think they always thought Soogard would be the back up next year. Injuries have derailed his development this year a little. Maybe he plays alot of games in the second half. Foraberg moves better than Talbot and has less blow up games. Hopefully he goes on a run here.

The sens have cap space right now. They don't need to dump Zaitsev. The only plausible scenario is if they feel they need to make sure they have room next year because they are extending the Cat.

It will cost less to move Zaitsev next year. Just do it then.

They're gonna have to bridge Pinto maybe for 3 or 2 years.

5 million in dead money comes off the books the following year. That's all going to go to Sanderson. The next 2 years are tricky but if the sens can get through them they should be fine after that as everyone will be locked in and the cap will keep going up. That's when the team will be ready to really push all the best players will be in their primes. They need these prospects and young players to be effective on their ELC's the next two seasons.

 

[GCK]

He's just not in the budget with or without Zaitsev. I think they always thought Soogard would be the back up next year. Injuries have derailed his development this year a little. Maybe he plays alot of games in the second half. Foraberg moves better than Talbot and has less blow up games. Hopefully he goes on a run here.

The sens have cap space right now. They don't need to dump Zaitsev. The only plausible scenario is if they feel they need to make sure they have room next year because they are extending the Cat.

It will cost less to move Zaitsev next year. Just do it then.

They're gonna have to bridge Pinto maybe for 3 or 2 years.

5 million in dead money comes off the books the following year. That's all going to go to Sanderson. The next 2 years are tricky but if the sens can get through them they should be fine after that as everyone will be locked in and the cap will keep going up. That's when the team will be ready to really push all the best players will be in their primes. They need these prospects and young players to be effective on their ELC's the next two seasons.

Whether they agree to smooth the cap or not, 2024/25 should be almost a 90M cap. That’s when having our core locked up should start paying dividends.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Probably going to need five (5) sub $900 k forwards on the 3rd & 4th lines if we sign Debrincat & Talbot and that's with Zaitsev gone.

shouldnt be an issue

if the cap is still flat this year a lot of guys will sign for cheap to just play in the league

Exactly. Good ones too.

Look at #1217 - carefully. That roster already includes 6 players under $900 k & 1 at $925k (plus Sanderson of course).

It's very tight plus there were some risks that were identified.

Might want to stay away from that easy button for a bit.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Who say's we're re-signing Talbot?

Totally agree. And it would be consistent with giving Forsberg the contract he got, which is too much for a backup. I'd rather trade Talbot and not have to give away assets to dump Zaitsev in order to fit D-Cat.

Free agent goalie list isn't exactly long or impressive:

Quick
Talbot
Jarry - he''l sign again with Pittsburgh
--------------------
Reimer
Jones
Korpisalo
Raanta
Soderblum

Only the ones under the dotted line are paid under $3.5 m now & 3 of them aren't that good or on Talbot's level. Slim pickings.

 

[DrEasy]

Free agent goalie list isn't exactly long or impressive:

Quick
Talbot
Jarry - he''l resign with Pittsburgh
--------------------
Reimer
Jones
Korpisalo
Raanta
Soderblum

Only the ones under the dotted line are paid under $3.5 m now & 3 of them aren't that good or on Talbot's level. Slim pickings.

I wonder if we'd have been better off this year just keeping Gus and C. Brown instead of trading Gus for Talbot. Similar cap hit.

At some point, when you pay Forsberg about $3M/yr you should expect him to be your #1 goalie (or just don't sign him if you don't trust him, and trade for Talbot instead).

So for next year I'd just roll the dice and go with Forsberg + Sogaard. Keep the asset required to dump Zaitsev.

 

[guyzeur]

I wonder if we'd have been better off this year just keeping Gus and C. Brown instead of trading Gus for Talbot. Similar cap hit.

At some point, when you pay Forsberg about $3M/yr you should expect him to be your #1 goalie (or just don't sign him if you don't trust him, and trade for Talbot instead).

So for next year I'd just roll the dice and go with Forsberg + Sogaard. Keep the asset required to dump Zaitsev.

I'm not being very confident we can make the playoffs with these 2

 

[Big Muddy]

1. Goalie situation

Not sure about our goalie situation. It would save some money for sure if Talbot is not re-signed. But, are they confident with Soogard backing up Forsberg? Unless they give Soogard a bunch of NHL games between now and the end of the season, he doesn't have much of an NHL resume. And finding another decent goalie for under $3.7 m might be possible, but doesn't look that easy to me.

2. Next years roster

It's seems very likely that there will be a lot of ELC and/or very low salary players on the roster next year. I haven't seen anyone disputing that. That doesn't seem like a novel idea, or isn't new information. Most of the posters that have posted 2023-24 rosters have already incorporated a lot (6+) of ELCs & low cost players.

 

[DrEasy]

1. Goalie situation

Not sure about our goalie situation. It would save some money for sure if Talbot is not re-signed. But, are they confident with Soogard backing up Forsberg? Unless they give Soogard a bunch of NHL games between now and the end of the season, he doesn't have much of an NHL resume. And finding another decent goalie for under $3.7 m might be possible, but doesn't look that easy to me.

2. Next years roster

It's seems very likely that there will be a lot of ELC and/or very low salary players on the roster next year. I haven't seen anyone disputing that. That doesn't seem like a novel idea, or isn't new information. Most of the posters that have posted 2023-24 rosters have already incorporated a lot (6+) of ELCs & low cost players.

Well, if we're out of playoff contention by the deadline, it's an easy call to trade Talbot to get some asset for him and bring up Sogaard and get him some experience sharing the net with Forsberg. If he acquits himself well, then we can just keep that tandem for next year. If not, then sure we should be on the hunt for another goalie.

 

[Big Muddy]

Well, if we're out of playoff contention by the deadline, it's an easy call to trade Talbot to get some asset for him and bring up Sogaard and get him some experience sharing the net with Forsberg. If he acquits himself well, then we can just keep that tandem for next year. If not, then sure we should be on the hunt for another goalie.

I'm all for Sogaard getting some NHL ice time. I'd like to see some AHL forwards get some ice time with the big club as well. There's a good chance that some of these guys have a shot at a roster spot next year given the cap situation, so not a bad idea to see what we've got.

There's a couple of things I don't know. The first = Is Dorion/DJ trying to salvage the year so he'll go with a more experienced roster thinking that gives him the best chance to win?

The 2nd is IF they don't want Sogaard to be the 2nd goalie next year, how easy will it really be to find a better goalie? And, I suppose, if it's a legit tender with experience, what's the cost, and will we save any money? Bird in hand versus bird in the bush I guess.

So, I guess I just know what the questions should be versus the answers. This is going to be a really interesting off season.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Until we significantly improve defensively, I'd want to keep any goalie who has shown the ability to keep up with us.

I'm not sure we can "afford" to give up on Talbot. I'd like to since he is unsigned but we kind of need a 1A/1B since losing a bunch of games to bad goaltending, likely due to one of our goalies is a young/cheap backup, could be deadly to making the playoffs.

 

[SensFactor]

I think Sens still looking to get Chychrun ...moving Zaitsev is a must...until he is off the books its not happening

 

[DrEasy]

I'm all for Sogaard getting some NHL ice time. I'd like to see some AHL forwards get some ice time with the big club as well. There's a good chance that some of these guys have a shot at a roster spot next year given the cap situation, so not a bad idea to see what we've got.

There's a couple of things I don't know. The first = Is Dorion/DJ trying to salvage the year so he'll go with a more experienced roster thinking that gives him the best chance to win?

The 2nd is IF they don't want Sogaard to be the 2nd goalie next year, how easy will it really be to find a better goalie? And, I suppose, if it's a legit tender with experience, what's the cost, and will we save any money? Bird in hand versus bird in the bush I guess.

So, I guess I just know what the questions should be versus the answers. This is going to be a really interesting off season.

Yes, the bolded is the risk with my proposed approach. My contention is that we shouldn't try too hard to find one. If one falls into our lap for cheap, sure. Otherwise roll the dice with what we have, as long is it means we get to sign D-Cat and we don't have to lose assets just to dump Zaitsev.

 

[DrEasy]

Until we significantly improve defensively, I'd want to keep any goalie who has shown the ability to keep up with us.

I'm not sure we can "afford" to give up on Talbot. I'd like to since he is unsigned but we kind of need a 1A/1B since losing a bunch of games to bad goaltending, likely due to one of our goalies is a young/cheap backup, could be deadly to making the playoffs.

The problem I have with a 1A/1B situation, is that for every game you have a lot of $$$ sitting on your bench doing nothing. If you trust enough either goalie to be in nets half the time, why not have him in nets for 75% of the time, with a cheap backup/prospect taking care of the rest for much cheaper?

This is BTW something Dorion has done before (pretty much one of his first moves IIRC), when he signed Condon to a 1B goalie contract, then still signed Anderson to a 1A goalie contract. It's absurd. If you trust Anderson, don't sign Condon to such a contract.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

The problem I have with a 1A/1B situation, is that for every game you have a lot of $$$ sitting on your bench doing nothing. If you trust enough either goalie to be in nets half the time, why not have him in nets for 75% of the time, with a cheap backup/prospect taking care of the rest for much cheaper?

I'd say diminishing returns is a real thing here: some goalies drop off a lot when they play too much.

I agree that the ideal is having a strong goalie who can start most nights, but when we extert our goalies this much I'm not confident in our ability to find one.

 

[HSF]

Look at #1217 - carefully. That roster already includes 6 players under $900 k & 1 at $925k (plus Sanderson of course).

It's very tight plus there were some risks that were identified.

Might want to stay away from that easy button for a bit.

i dont understand your point? yes you will need cheap contracts to filll out the roster is that a bad thing when you are keeping star talent?

there is no 'easy' solution but maybe its time for the GM to start doing his job? Other GMs deal with cap crunches all the time

 

[Loach]

i dont understand your point? yes you will need cheap contracts to filll out the roster is that a bad thing when you are keeping star talent?

there is no 'easy' solution but maybe its time for the GM to start doing his job? Other GMs deal with cap crunches all the time

Wait...so is this a new "thing" going on now? Dorion can't do his job right because of the cap?

 

[HSF]

Wait...so is this a new "thing" going on now? Dorion can't do his job right because of the cap?

no its seems like the narrative by some here is that it will be hard to keep players cause we will need to sign cheap players to fill out the bottom 6.

Thats the norm in the nhl for teams near the cap. It is not easy but when is running an NHL team easy

You are better off keeping stars and spending less on the bottom guys

 

[JD1]

The problem I have with a 1A/1B situation, is that for every game you have a lot of $$$ sitting on your bench doing nothing. If you trust enough either goalie to be in nets half the time, why not have him in nets for 75% of the time, with a cheap backup/prospect taking care of the rest for much cheaper?

This is BTW something Dorion has done before (pretty much one of his first moves IIRC), when he signed Condon to a 1B goalie contract, then still signed Anderson to a 1A goalie contract. It's absurd. If you trust Anderson, don't sign Condon to such a contract.

I think the league has evolved to a low 50s / 30 type situation and that's when there's a clear #1. I can't seem to find GS data, only GP data. There were 17 guys that appeared in more than 50 games last year, but that's not starts, some of it is appearances.

We're in a tough spot next year but I hope we find a way to go into the season with two experienced guys

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

I wouldnt mind a swing on Jansen Harkins on waivers, depending on how far out our guys are from returning. Low-event 4th liner/extra forward and a very good AHLer - not sure we could get him down, but if we could, he'd be a much needed addition.

 

[Loach]

no its seems like the narrative by some here is that it will be hard to keep players cause we will need to sign cheap players to fill out the bottom 6.

Thats the norm in the nhl for teams near the cap. It is not easy but when is running an NHL team easy

You are better off keeping stars and spending less on the bottom guys

Can't have too many misses when drafting. High picks need to hit and then hope for a couple others turn into 300-400 game players I guess.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Wait...so is this a new "thing" going on now? Dorion can't do his job right because of the cap?

Yep, there is a cap.

 

[GCK]

no its seems like the narrative by some here is that it will be hard to keep players cause we will need to sign cheap players to fill out the bottom 6.

Thats the norm in the nhl for teams near the cap. It is not easy but when is running an NHL team easy

You are better off keeping stars and spending less on the bottom guys

I think it’s more about paying the top 6 about 45M which matches the leafs. The leafs have the 2 best players out of both top 6 groups.

 

[playasRus]

What're we thinking 36 y.o. Cam Talbot demands in FA?

I can't see it being more than 3M x 1 year, or 2M x 2 years. But instead closer to 2.5M x 1y

 

[GCK]

What're we thinking 36 y.o. Cam Talbot demands in FA?

I can't see it being more than 3M x 1 year, or 2M x 2 years. But instead closer to 2.5M x 1y

4M x 2 if he plays well and hits the market.

 

[JD1]

I think it’s more about paying the top 6 about 45M which matches the leafs. The leafs have the 2 best players out of both top 6 groups.

The Leafs top 4 are low 40s or so aren't they... comparatively our top 4 up front with DeBrincat at 9 would be about 33

I think Pinto is an obvious bridge and I don't think he gets 3m on a bridge which is a number I see floated here occasionally. He's got pretty limited leverage.