Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals PART XXXXX

[bert]

Just to echo this statement, it was Murray that was the GM when Alfie left. Dorion would have been AGM at that time, which means he would have some involvement in support of Murray but ultimately as most have mentioned, I believe that Melnyk was the one behind the scenes low-balling Alfie on the last contract and the reason that Alfie left for Detroit. When Alfie came back to learn the ropes under Murray, there was very likely still bad blood between Alfie and Melnyk and is the reason why Alfie left as a non-player/executive. I don't think Dorion had anything to do with Alfie leaving, either as a player or as an executive.

I dont think Dorion cared to have Alfie in the arena from what I have heard... Insecurities I believe. A large reason along with Melnyk he took a hiatus from the team.

 

[TheNewEra]

This team needs JBD to step up & become the 2nd pairing RD, that way Zub could play with Chabot & it would push Hamonic down to the 3rd pairing where he likely belongs. I'm not a fan of Brannstrom on the 3rd pairing & would prefer a bigger tougher mobile bruiser, maybe Heatherington for a yr until Kleven is NHL ready & pushes him out. Or better yet, sign the best we can in the off season for a yr or two.

Yeah we need JBD to step up big time.

While I am a fan of Brannstrom its clear he isnt going to get a top 4 slot here so if a change needs to be made that is fine with me. The issue is that Brannstrom will probably resign for cheap/cheapish and at the very least he moves the puck and has some how become decent defensively. If the plan is to resign DBC and potentially Talbot then we need players taking bargain deals and if we are signing someone external then that is less likely.

Brannstrom is more impactful then heatherington and while i would also like a good dman that can hit at the same time we cant be making our defense any weaker.

If we can get an upgrade on Bran that will hit and sign for 1.5 million or less then sign me up.

It is why players like JBD/Grieg/Kastelic/Bran/hell even Kelly hold value for us. NHL talent for cheap

 

[DJB]

Don't recall who was saying it, but I thought the claim in the past was Alfie doesn't get along with Dorion, not the other way around.

Can admit no idea on Alfies feelings towards Dorion.

Absolutely without a shred of doubt clearly know his feelings towards Melnyk. Loathed the man

 

[Good in Osgoode]

I dont think Dorion cared to have Alfie in the arena from what I have heard... Insecurities I believe. A large reason along with Melnyk he took a hiatus from the team.

I can buy that as I think that PD's insecurities were the reason that Pierre McGuire was kicked out the door after less than a year.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I dont think Dorion cared to have Alfie in the arena from what I have heard... Insecurities I believe. A large reason along with Melnyk he took a hiatus from the team.

Alfie has been at the rink a lot more since EM passed away, he said he also comes in now to see the trainers/therapists.

Seems like it was EM as the problem.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

I think this is a fan forum opinion that is not shared in the NHL world.

I personally think that people look at the fruits of one’s labour to pass judgment, and our young team looks great so far.

In here you have posters holding on to ‘Stepan and Gudbranson’ as their reasoning for “Dorion Sucks”. Two insignificant moves that have no baring in the rebuild beyond a 2nd round pick.

I’m just glad that we got to see a half season and off season where Dorion could finally work unhindered, for those who still have an open mind on the subject it certainly added a wealth of perspective both on the various stages of the rebuild, and the way the team ran under EM…

… and what a period of time it has been; Norris, Stutzle, Zub all signed to long deals, DBC and Talbot traded for, Motte and Giroux signed, not to mention Sanderson finally added to the roster, and not a single core player lost from the team in the process.

I think new owners, and a new POHO will look at the big picture and base their decisions on the state of the team and of the overall rebuilding process, and not get bogged down by a few failed insignificant trades and signings that had zero implications in the short or long term.

No offense but I think that it might THIS ^^^ opinion that is confined to message boards. I know for a fact that Dorion is not thought of as a good GM among hockey writers. While I don't know any hockey execs personally ( I do know some hockey writers) I doubt Dorion's body of work has them thinking he's done a good job the last half dozen years.

Let me ask this hypothetical question: if we fired Dorion tomorrow, when do you think another team would hire him as a GM? To me that is not even a when question but a very big IF question. Going on missing the playoffs for 6 years and some of the most baffling trades in the league during that time. NHL execs, the good ones at least, don't miss that kind of thing.

Dorion has certainly done some good things but his overall work is more on the negative side of the ledger.

But hey maybe I'm wrong.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Alfie has been at the rink a lot more since EM passed away, he said he also comes in now to see the trainers/therapists.

Seems like it was EM as the problem.

EM's issues probably led to some other infighting at times, but I'm sure they all knew who the real problem was. Alfie probably realized nothing would change until EM was gone and checked out for the time being.

 

[bert]

Alfie has been at the rink a lot more since EM passed away, he said he also comes in now to see the trainers/therapists.

Seems like it was EM as the problem.

It was a combination

 

[Ice-Tray]

No offense but I think that it might THIS ^^^ opinion that is confined to message boards. I know for a fact that Dorion is not thought of as a good GM among hockey writers. While I don't know any hockey execs personally ( I do know some hockey writers) I doubt Dorion's body of work has them thinking he's done a good job the last half dozen years.

Let me ask this hypothetical question: if we fired Dorion tomorrow, when do you think another team would hire him as a GM? To me that is not even a when question but a very big IF question. Going on missing the playoffs for 6 years and some of the most baffling trades in the league during that time. NHL execs, the good ones at least, don't miss that kind of thing.

Dorion has certainly done some good things but his overall work is more on the negative side of the ledger.

But hey maybe I'm wrong.

Okie dokie!

 

[Alex1234]

Don't recall who was saying it, but I thought the claim in the past was Alfie doesn't get along with Dorion, not the other way around.

No surprise here

 

[Que]

I believe (and I could be wrong) Dorion was handling contract negotiations at the time Alfredsson left the team.

I’m now going to speculate that Melnyk drew a fiscal hard line and it was Dorion who had to ‘negotiate’ with Alffy. Things did not go well, fast forward and here we are today.

We’re going to need a RD this season. I’m worried for Zaitsev. His feet are just so broken and at some point you have to put your physical health over your career.

Edit:

Shattenkirk makes a lot of sense. I know as a team we’ve looked at him before. Also read the Flyers might buyout Hayes in the off-season? I wonder if they would retain 50% and trade him here? Would save Philly money and cap and gives us size and grit.

 

[JD1]

That cross ice pass by Stutzle in overtime came to within an inch of being picked off & going the other way with no one back to stop them. He has to stop making dangerous risky plays like that & he has to shorten his shifts sometimes too especially when he is getting tired & been on too long. He is an example of a player trying too hard to do too much that can sometimes hurt the team, but he was flying in OV.


This team needs JBD to step up & become the 2nd pairing RD, that way Zub could play with Chabot & it would push Hamonic down to the 3rd pairing where he likely belongs. I'm not a fan of Brannstrom on the 3rd pairing & would prefer a bigger tougher mobile bruiser, maybe Heatherington for a yr until Kleven is NHL ready & pushes him out. Or better yet, sign the best we can in the off season for a yr or two.

We talking this year or next?

Next year, I see Zub and Sanderson playing together and getting the hard minutes. They're both better defensive players than Chabot. Zub makes short smart passes and Jake can pass and carry a puck out of the zone.

That means we need JBD to play the silent partner to Chabot.

One of the critical things this team needs in order to make a leap forward is Sanderson being a better defensive player than Chabot and having a partner and matchups that recognize that.

 

[JD1]

I can buy that as I think that PD's insecurities were the reason that Pierre McGuire was kicked out the door after less than a year.

McGuire never should have been invited thru the door.

 

[JD1]

Ok, so we're getting new ownership. That's great. Hopefully it's a consortium with deep pockets.

Is new ownership going to take the reigns and immediately fire Dorion? I hope not. Wtf do any of the ownership candidates know about professional hockey?

The smart play #1 is a new ownership group hiring an experienced hockey man above Dorion to conduct a detailed review top to bottom and making decisions based on that review

Smart play #2 might be to discretely inquire around the league about the people we have in hockey ops while focussing their attention on the business side of building up the fan base and preparations for a new arena.

There's a cadre of folks in here that want their pound of flesh. But listening to the fanatics on a message board probably isn't the best way to go when making billion dollar plus business decisions

 

[Micklebot]

We talking this year or next?

Next year, I see Zub and Sanderson playing together and getting the hard minutes. They're both better defensive players than Chabot. Zub makes short smart passes and Jake can pass and carry a puck out of the zone.

That means we need JBD to play the silent partner to Chabot.

One of the critical things this team needs in order to make a leap forward is Sanderson being a better defensive player than Chabot and having a partner and matchups that recognize that.

If JBD is ready for that responsibility I think it is the ideal setup, but it's a lot to ask. Thomson will be waiver eligible as well, he's likely going to either be traded or on the roster next year. I could see him used similarly to Brannstrom on the bottom pair, not sure if I'd want them together though unless he takes a significant step.

It will be interesting to see how we handle next year, Talbot, DeBrincat, Brannstrom, JBD, and Pinto all need new contracts, we have about 21 mil in cap space to sign them and fill out the rest of the roster. If we manage to dump Zaitsev that adds another 4.5

We will probably be relying a lot on internal growth for any progression next year, or I suppose, better health and a new coach.

I wonder if we trade Forsberg and Joseph, make room for Sogaard as backup and one of Crookshank, Greig or Sokolov on the third line. It would open up about as much as trading Zaitsev would.

 

[Loach]

Ok, so we're getting new ownership. That's great. Hopefully it's a consortium with deep pockets.

Is new ownership going to take the reigns and immediately fire Dorion? I hope not. Wtf do any of the ownership candidates know about professional hockey?

The smart play #1 is a new ownership group hiring an experienced hockey man above Dorion to conduct a detailed review top to bottom and making decisions based on that review

Smart play #2 might be to discretely inquire around the league about the people we have in hockey ops while focussing their attention on the business side of building up the fan base and preparations for a new arena.

There's a cadre of folks in here that want their pound of flesh. But listening to the fanatics on a message board probably isn't the best way to go when making billion dollar plus business decisions

That's probably been done already. You don't buy a NHL team, which needs a new arena built, and wait to decide who you have working for you. That would be bonkers. As soon as the new owner is decided things will change in the first 10 days. No waiting until the paper work is done in the summer.

 

[Alex1234]

Rest assured the group paying 800MM$ for a franchise is not going to keep the actual clowns lol

 

[Micklebot]

Ok, so we're getting new ownership. That's great. Hopefully it's a consortium with deep pockets.

Is new ownership going to take the reigns and immediately fire Dorion? I hope not. Wtf do any of the ownership candidates know about professional hockey?

The smart play #1 is a new ownership group hiring an experienced hockey man above Dorion to conduct a detailed review top to bottom and making decisions based on that review

Smart play #2 might be to discretely inquire around the league about the people we have in hockey ops while focussing their attention on the business side of building up the fan base and preparations for a new arena.

There's a cadre of folks in here that want their pound of flesh. But listening to the fanatics on a message board probably isn't the best way to go when making billion dollar plus business decisions

The league often helps new owners find guys. I suspect what will happen is the league will assist new ownership get a POHO in place, someone like Mike Gilles. Friedman reported a while back when Melnyk was searching for a POHO that we'd been getting assistance from another teams senior exect to find one, I'd heard it was Detroit's but can't remember where I heard that. Friedman also reported we'd approached Lombardi, Francis, Yzerman, Linden and Nieuwendyk but we're turned down on all counts, I suspect none of them were interested in working with Melnyk at a time when the teams future still looked fairly uncertain. Alfie has been thrown around but seems a bit like fan fiction as he doesn't seem to have the resume imo.

Dorion will be hard pressed to stick around with a new POHO in place if it's someone as regarded as those above imo, he might survive the rest of the season but I can't see him being in place by the draft, all those guys will have someone they trust in mind to take over.

 

[GCK]

Ok, so we're getting new ownership. That's great. Hopefully it's a consortium with deep pockets.

Is new ownership going to take the reigns and immediately fire Dorion? I hope not. Wtf do any of the ownership candidates know about professional hockey?

The smart play #1 is a new ownership group hiring an experienced hockey man above Dorion to conduct a detailed review top to bottom and making decisions based on that review

Smart play #2 might be to discretely inquire around the league about the people we have in hockey ops while focussing their attention on the business side of building up the fan base and preparations for a new arena.

There's a cadre of folks in here that want their pound of flesh. But listening to the fanatics on a message board probably isn't the best way to go when making billion dollar plus business decisions

I would be shocked if the leading bidders don’t have a consultant in place who has identified 2 or 3 GM candidates to hire.

 

[Micklebot]

I would be shocked if the leading bidders don’t have a consultant in place who has identified 2 or 3 GM candidates to hire.

I could see it being POHO candidates and letting the POHO identify the next GM but the point remains that it's not new owners coming in and hiring a GM with no input from people with the requisite expertise

 

[JD1]

The league often helps new owners find guys. I suspect what will happen is the league will assist new ownership get a POHO in place, someone like Mike Gilles. Friedman reported a while back when Melnyk was searching for a POHO that we'd been getting assistance from another teams senior exect to find one, I'd heard it was Detroit's but can't remember where I heard that. Friedman also reported we'd approached Lombardi, Francis, Yzerman, Linden and Nieuwendyk but we're turned down on all counts, I suspect none of them were interested in working with Melnyk at a time when the teams future still looked fairly uncertain. Alfie has been thrown around but seems a bit like fan fiction as he doesn't seem to have the resume imo.

Dorion will be hard pressed to stick around with a new POHO in place if it's someone as regarded as those above imo, he might survive the rest of the season but I can't see him being in place by the draft, all those guys will have someone they trust in mind to take over.

Ya I'm aware that Melnyk was looking for a poho and the league was helping with it.

And the league very likely will have a few recommendations for senior hockey people if the new ownership asks for advice.

I'm just less inclined than some on the board to paint PD as a bozo that doesn't belong in the league

I would be shocked if the leading bidders don’t have a consultant in place who has identified 2 or 3 GM candidates to hire.

I would be shocked if they do

 

[Micklebot]

Ya I'm aware that Melnyk was looking for a poho and the league was helping with it.

And the league very likely will have a few recommendations for senior hockey people if the new ownership asks for advice.

I'm just less inclined than some on the board to paint PD as a bozo that doesn't belong in the league

Dorion certainly has a place in the league, I'm not sure it's as a GM, that's a pretty competitive position, but he's certainly got something to offer if he's willing to move down a rung, I just don't see him as having another opportunity as GM waiting for him if/when he gets canned.

 

[aragorn]

We talking this year or next?

Next year, I see Zub and Sanderson playing together and getting the hard minutes. They're both better defensive players than Chabot. Zub makes short smart passes and Jake can pass and carry a puck out of the zone.

That means we need JBD to play the silent partner to Chabot.

One of the critical things this team needs in order to make a leap forward is Sanderson being a better defensive player than Chabot and having a partner and matchups that recognize that.

Yes, we need one of JBD or Thomson to take a big step forward to move into the top 4 but whether either is capable at this time is questionable but IMO JBD is ahead of Thomson. I also think that one of JBD, Thomson or Brannstrom is likely not going to be here next yr & will be traded for an upgrade somewhere. They have to upgrade that right side.

Dorion certainly has a place in the league, I'm not sure it's as a GM, that's a pretty competitive position, but he's certainly got something to offer if he's willing to move down a rung, I just don't see him as having another opportunity as GM waiting for him if/when he gets canned.

Would it surprise you if he is moved up as opposed to moving down? Maybe he gets the President job & another GM is brought in. I'm not advocating for it, but it's another possibility, he's had a number of different jobs in the org & should know the entire org inside & out by now as well as the city & advertisers. He is fluently bilingual, knows city hall & the politicians & knows the media quite well. Food for thought.

 

[Loach]

Ya I'm aware that Melnyk was looking for a poho and the league was helping with it.

And the league very likely will have a few recommendations for senior hockey people if the new ownership asks for advice.

I'm just less inclined than some on the board to paint PD as a bozo that doesn't belong in the league


I would be shocked if they do

I'm not shocked that you would be shocked.

 

[Micklebot]

Would it surprise you if he is moved up as opposed to moving down? Maybe he gets the President job & another GM is brought in. I'm not advocating for it, but it's another possibility, he's had a number of different jobs in the org & should know the entire org inside & out by now as well as the city & advertisers. He is fluently bilingual, knows city hall & the politicians & knows the media quite well. Food for thought.

Personally I find it unlikely. Being fluently bilingual is an advantage only if you're also a good public speaker and Pierre always seems a bit awkward (less so in french, but still).