Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals PART XXXXX

[Ouroboros]

He’s a decent nhl player. I remember posts like yours about Hoffman and Paul too.. it’s these kinds of players that have a greater chance of becoming something

Who do you think the Ottawa senators are? What do we do?

I think he’s perfect a guy to play with pinto and Joseph. Also a big shot option on pp2. And defensively reliable. This team needs to start building back the depth we lost with formenton Paul and brown. He’s a good candidate to at least try

He's not a decent NHL player though. He's a guy that got overhyped 5 years ago by scoring some perimeter goals in the KHL. Since then he's mostly been a mediocre offensive producer at the AHL and NHL level, and he has little utility if he isn't scoring.

His defensive metrics on the JFresh card look like a statistical aberration to me. When you dig into his microstats it doesn't make much sense. He's awful at entries, exits, retrievals and has a bad possession rate. Low end passer/distributor too. Suspect he grades out decently due to being spoon-fed soft minutes against bad competition.

Very few of Ottawa's top-6 players are penalty killers - Tkachuk, Batherson, DeBrincat, and Pinto don't play there. Giroux goes out for faceoff's and then hops off. So this places a heavy burden on the bottom-6 to pick up the slack. Motte, Joseph, Kelly, Kastelic, Gambrell and Watson all chip in here. If Norris returns in January you don't even have a slot for Tolvanen on the second PP unit. We have no possible use for a player like that.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

He's not a decent NHL player though. He's a guy that got overhyped 5 years ago by scoring some perimeter goals in the KHL. Since then he's mostly been a mediocre offensive producer at the AHL and NHL level, and he has little utility if he isn't scoring.

His defensive metrics on the JFresh card look like a statistical aberration to me. When you dig into his microstats it doesn't make much sense. He's awful at entries, exits, retrievals and has a bad possession rate. Low end passer/distributor too. Suspect he grades out decently due to being spoon-fed soft minutes against bad competition.

Very few of Ottawa's top-6 players are penalty killers - Tkachuk, Batherson, DeBrincat, and Pinto don't play there. Giroux goes out for faceoff's and then hops off. So this places a heavy burden on the bottom-6 to pick up the slack. Motte, Joseph, Kelly, Kastelic, Gambrell and Watson all chip in here. If Norris returns in January you don't even have a slot for Tolvanen on the second PP unit. We have no possible use for a player like that.

Stutzle also has started killing penalties. I’m sure tolvanen can do the same.

We had motte on Pp 2 while norris was healthy I’m sure we can find a spot for tolvanen and his shot.

He had 22 points in 40 games not long ago.

If we were like…..decent I would agree. But we are shit. When a higher skilled guy who seemingly doesn’t have atttitude issues or isn’t a brainless defensive player becomes available. It’s usually worth a look

 

[R2010]

He's not a decent NHL player though. He's a guy that got overhyped 5 years ago by scoring some perimeter goals in the KHL. Since then he's mostly been a mediocre offensive producer at the AHL and NHL level, and he has little utility if he isn't scoring.

His defensive metrics on the JFresh card look like a statistical aberration to me. When you dig into his microstats it doesn't make much sense. He's awful at entries, exits, retrievals and has a bad possession rate. Low end passer/distributor too. Suspect he grades out decently due to being spoon-fed soft minutes against bad competition.

Very few of Ottawa's top-6 players are penalty killers - Tkachuk, Batherson, DeBrincat, and Pinto don't play there. Giroux goes out for faceoff's and then hops off. So this places a heavy burden on the bottom-6 to pick up the slack. Motte, Joseph, Kelly, Kastelic, Gambrell and Watson all chip in here. If Norris returns in January you don't even have a slot for Tolvanen on the second PP unit. We have no possible use for a player like that.

Micah has him as really good defensively too. His model is more 'mechanistic' than JFresh's.

I would claim him.

 

[Bileur]

Stutzle also has started killing penalties. I’m sure tolvanen can do the same.

We had motte on Pp 2 while norris was healthy I’m sure we can find a spot for tolvanen and his shot.

He had 22 points in 40 games not long ago.

If we were like…..decent I would agree. But we are shit. When a higher skilled guy who seemingly doesn’t have atttitude issues or isn’t a brainless defensive player becomes available. It’s usually worth a look

Tolvanen already was getting a taste with only 9 fewer seconds of SHTOI/G than Timmy.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Grab Tolvanen off waivers .. Trade Watson for Puljujarvi if the Oil goes for that.. they seem motivated to move him.
That will revamp our bottom 6
L3 Tolvanen Brassard Puljujarvi
L4 Motte Kastelic Joseph

Pinto slides into the 3 hole when Norris comes back,
The chasm between the top 6 and bottom 6 is narrowed.
I know we are giving up some grit with Watty but .. its a cheap , expedient way to make improvements

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Tolvanen already was getting a taste with only 9 fewer seconds of SHTOI/G than Timmy.

There you go

 

[BankStreetParade]

Grab Tolvanen off waivers .. Trade Watson for Puljujarvi if the Oil goes for that.. they seem motivated to move him.
That will revamp our bottom 6
L3 Tolvanen Brassard Puljujarvi
L4 Motte Kastelic Joseph

Pinto slides into the 3 hole when Norris comes back,
The chasm between the top 6 and bottom 6 is narrowed.
I know we are giving up some grit with Watty but .. its a cheap , expedient way to make improvements

I'd barely characterize him as gritty. He's been MIA on the agitation and hard-hitting front, just like his linemate Kelly.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Tolvanen can PK, but he cant replace Watson.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Tolvanen can PK, but he cant replace Watson.

I am not too worried about replacing Watson on the PK. May take some reps but I think the Sens should be grooming Pinto to PK

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

I am not too worried about replacing Watson on the PK. May take some reps but I think the Sens should be grooming Pinto to PK

I agree that Pinto should be groomed to PK, but there are very few guys in the league who block shots like Watson and consistently get great results on the PK like Watson.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I agree that Pinto should be groomed to PK, but there are very few guys in the league who block shots like Watson and consistently get great results on the PK like Watson.

For sure that's a strength of his game and he has been good.

 

[Micklebot]

I agree that Pinto should be groomed to PK, but there are very few guys in the league who block shots like Watson and consistently get great results on the PK like Watson.

Watson is on the 2nd unit, he was last year too but he's been leaned on a bit more this year with Brown, Paul and Formenton all gone.

I think we have a few options that could step into his role on the PK, Kastelic, Pinto, and when healthy, Norris could all see time. Stutzle could see more time as well.

Are any of those guys as good on the PK, idk, but I do feel like we might be exaggerating how good Watson is in the role, his last 3 seasons in Nsh didn't show him as spectacular, just a typical penalty killer, since then for us, he's been effective though, so idk...

 

[DaveMatthew]

Watson is on the 2nd unit, he was last year too but he's been leaned on a bit more this year with Brown, Paul and Formenton all gone.

I think we have a few options that could step into his role on the PK, Kastelic, Pinto, and when healthy, Norris could all see time. Stutzle could see more time as well.

Are any of those guys as good on the PK, idk, but I do feel like we might be exaggerating how good Watson is in the role, his last 3 seasons in Nsh didn't show him as spectacular, just a typical penalty killer, since then for us, he's been effective though, so idk...

Definitely exaggerated.

Watson is 4th amongst forwards in SH icetime on a team that is average on the PK (17th in the league).

He's a fine PKer because of his willingness to block shots, but he's not indispensable by any means. It's unlikely he's back next year, and it'll be pretty easy to fill his spot, IMO.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Definitely exaggerated.

Watson is 4th amongst forwards in SH icetime on a team that is average on the PK (17th in the league).

He's a fine PKer because of his willingness to block shots, but he's not indispensable by any means. It's unlikely he's back next year, and it'll be pretty easy to fill his spot, IMO.

Ok, I'm exaggerating. Sure. Why don't you take a guess as to Watson's goals against per 60, and where it ranks in the league, since coming over here? Y'know, since I'm definitely exaggerating.

 

[aragorn]

Matter is listed at 6"4" and 200 lbs. Not sure if he is worth Formenton. What is your view of Matier?

I was thinking he would make a good 3rd pairing RD at some future point. He plays in all situations for the 67s & is considered one of their better players. Not sure he is worth Formenton either, but Formenton has lost a lot of value over the past yr. There are a few others we could trade instead.

 

[HSF]

lol watson is easily replaceable

Formenton, Paul and Brown were way more important peices for the PK

 

[DaveMatthew]

Ok, I'm exaggerating. Sure. Why don't you take a guess as to Watson's goals against per 60, and where it ranks in the league, since coming over here? Y'know, since I'm definitely exaggerating.

Statistically, Watson ranks behind Joseph, Motte and Kelly as PKer.

He's a fine PKer. He's not amazing. It won't be a major difficulty trying to replace him next season.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Statistically, Watson ranks behind Joseph, Motte and Kelly as PKer.

He's a fine PKer. He's not amazing. It won't be a major difficulty trying to replace him next season.

By what statistic does he rank behind them? Time on ice?

He is a top 10 most effective PKing forward based on his results since coming to Ottawa. Statistically.

 

[HSF]

By what statistic does he rank behind them? Time on ice?

He is a top 10 most effective PKing forward based on his results since coming to Ottawa. Statistically.

Who is ahead of him in the top 10? Which stats?

 

[Philadelphia Collins]

Dylan Gambrell is playing in the top-6, I hope they at least put in a claim for Tolvanen

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Who is ahead of him in the top 10? Which stats?

PP Goals against per 60. He is behind Fast, Trocheck, Bailey, Blueger, Couture, Trenin, and J. Staal. Nichushkin & Pageau round out the top 10.

It's also noteworthy that several of those guys are/were on the same team (Bailey, Pageau; Fast, Trocheck, Staal). Whereas Ottawa doesn't have anyone close to Watson by that metric.

 

[DaveMatthew]

By what statistic does he rank behind them? Time on ice?

He is a top 10 most effective PKing forward based on his results since coming to Ottawa. Statistically.

Joseph and Kelly rank above Watson in xGA/60 on the PK this year.
Joseph and Kelly rank above Watson in xGF/60 on the PK this year.
Joseph and Kelly rank above Watson on SCF% on the PK this year.
Joseph, Kelly and Motte rank above Watson in HDCA/60 on the PK this year.
Joseph and Kelly rank above Watson in HDCF/60 on the PK this year,

What metrics are you looking at? Watson doesn't rank in the top 10 this year, on the PK, in the league in any of them.

Based on the metrics (defensive and offensive), Mathieu Joseph is easily our most effective PKer.

*I didn't include Stützle, Kastelic or Gambrell since they've played 1/3 of the PK minutes (compared to Joseph, Kelly, Motte and Watson), but they all look to be more effective players while shorthanded, based on their underlying numbers, as well. Stützle especially looks like he could be a great, dynamic PKer, so I expect him to get more minutes as this season, and his career, goes on.

 

[Bileur]

Rourke Chartier is currently pencilled in to the third line while Gambrell is on line 2 with DeBrincat as a game time decision.

These debates about Watson are irrelevant. He’s fine on the fourth line. How does it hurt to bring in Tolvanen who might be better than Watson or than someone else? He’ll almost certainly bring more ability on the PP than any of our current non top 6 options.

Worst case waive him again and I’m pretty sure another team lower in the waiver order would take a flyer.

It would be asinine not to put in a claim on Tolvanen.

 

[LuckyPierre]

This roster can no longer be built or shored up using the waiver wire. It sends the wrong message to the leadership core that was pleading for more support. If an upgrade at forward is needed, make a trade. Or bring up Sokolov.

 

[DaveMatthew]

PP Goals against per 60. He is behind Fast, Trocheck, Bailey, Blueger, Couture, Trenin, and J. Staal. Nichushkin & Pageau round out the top 10.

It's also noteworthy that several of those guys are/were on the same team (Bailey, Pageau; Fast, Trocheck, Staal). Whereas Ottawa doesn't have anyone close to Watson by that metric.

Watson ranks 43rd in the league in GA/60 on the PK this year, amongst players with >30:00 PK minutes played.

However, the underlying metrics suggest that there's been luck involved, since his xGA/60 numbers are quite a bit worse.