Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals PART XXXXX

[Sens of Anarchy]

How the f*** did St-Louis get that much for an impending UFA?

Brutal trade for the Rangers even though I do believe Tarasenko will fit in well on their top-6, but that's just way too high a price to pay for what as of now is a rental.

Its not outrageous.. retained half his Cap.
Check this out.

NHL trade deadline: History of first-round draft picks dealt for players | Sporting News Canada

www.sportingnews.com

Looks pretty average.
Its the silly season
The whole Metro has to respond to these big deals. Going to be some creative deals

 

[L'Aveuglette]

A 1st round pick, 3rd/4th and a contract balancer 'prospect' is too much to pay for a top-6 forward and a 5/6 defensive defenseman?

They got Tarasenko and Mikkola for the same price Florida paid for Ben Chiarot.

I'm not seeing how that's a huge haul, am I missing something?

Maybe "brutal" is too harsh a word but I don't think the Rangers should be handing out a first round pick for a rental who's having an off year.

also, yeah I missed the part about retaining half his salary so that does make it slightly better I guess.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Tarasenko is a winger and has 10 goals and 29 points in 38 games this year.

Duchene is a center and had 27 goals and 58 points in 50 games when he was dealt, and scoring was lower in 2018/19.

Duchene deserved to get a much better return. Not really comparable to Tarasenko.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Tarasenko is a winger and has 10 goals and 29 points in 38 games this year.

Duchene is a center and had 27 goals and 58 points in 50 games when he was dealt, and scoring was lower in 2018/19.

Duchene deserved to get a much better return. Not really comparable to Tarasenko.

Tarasenko has a championship and a pretty stellar playoff goal scoring career. Duchene had 2 playoff games on his resume before getting traded to Columbus. There's a pretty large gulf in their values when you look at the larger picture.

 

[Wallet Inspector]

How the f*** did St-Louis get that much for an impending UFA?

Brutal trade for the Rangers even though I do believe Tarasenko will fit in well on their top-6, but that's just way too high a price to pay for what as of now is a rental.

"That much"
Bro it's a late 1st then a bunch of nothing.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Tarasenko has a championship and a pretty stellar playoff goal scoring career. Duchene had 2 playoff games on his resume before getting traded to Columbus. There's a pretty large gulf in their values when you look at the larger picture.

If you think Tarasenko has more value than Duchene did in 2018/19, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[DJB]

One of my favourite things to read is to see Hale use any recent trade, compare it to one the Sens made to simply shit on Dorion.

It’s like clockwork

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Tarasenko is a winger and has 10 goals and 29 points in 38 games this year.

Duchene is a center and had 27 goals and 58 points in 50 games when he was dealt, and scoring was lower in 2018/19.

Duchene deserved to get a much better return. Not really comparable to Tarasenko.

Duchene got a much better return:

- Two conditional 1sts for Duchene, top 3 protected, vs a conditional 1st and conditional 3rd for Tarasenko. The 1st will almost certainly be lower than the one we got.
- Abramov & Davidsson vs Skinner & Blais. Both guys clearly had more value, were top 5-6 prospects in the CBus system, and were seen as legit NHL prospects. Blais seems like a league min player and Skinner has spent more time in the ECHL this year than the A.

In summation:
- Higher, less protected 1st
- Possibility of additional 1st
- Much better prospects
- No retention

We also didn't send a big, solid, physical, 5/6 DMan to Columbus in addition. So yeah, as you said, not really comparable.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Duchene got a much better return:

- Two conditional 1sts for Duchene, top 3 protected, vs a conditional 1st and conditional 3rd for Tarasenko. The 1st will almost certainly be lower than the one we got.
- Abramov & Davidsson vs Skinner & Blais. Both guys clearly had more value, were top 5-6 prospects in the CBus system, and were seen as legit NHL prospects. Blais seems like a league min player and Skinner has spent more time in the ECHL this year than the A.

In summation:
- Higher, less protected 1st
- Possibility of additional 1st
- Much better prospects
- No retention

We also didn't send a big, solid, physical, 5/6 DMan to Columbus in addition. So yeah, as you said, not really comparable.

Yeah Duchene got a better return, albeit still a disappointing one.

Abramov and Davidson were longshots and I think the Sens knew it at the time. Same goes for the conditional 1st - don't think anyone was banking on that ending up being transferred.

The big draw was the mid 1st we got from a team that wasn't even a guaranteed to make the playoffs instead of a late 1st from a contender. Shame it ended up getting wasted on a major reach in Lassi.

In another scenario the Blue Jackets fall short of the playoffs and the Sens end up with someone like Newhook or Krebs instead. Obviously zero chance our size queen scouting staff would have drafted Caufield but he would have been available too.

 

[Hale The Villain]

One of my favourite things to read is to see Hale use any recent trade, compare it to one the Sens made to simply shit on Dorion.

It’s like clockwork

Man deserves to be shit on.

Day his incompetent ass is canned I'll start getting seriously excited about the future of his franchise.

 

[GCK]

If you think Tarasenko has more value than Duchene did in 2018/19, I don't know what to tell you.

Duchene was considered a “problem”.

 

[SpezDispenser]

"That much"
Bro it's a late 1st then a bunch of nothing.

Thought the same. Pretty average return.

 

[JD1]

One of my favourite things to read is to see Hale use any recent trade, compare it to one the Sens made to simply shit on Dorion.

It’s like clockwork

My favourite Hale move is looking back at an entire off season of trades and acquisitions, highlighting the single player transaction out of literally hundreds that was the most beneficial to the acquiring team and pointing to that move as the obvious thing that Dorion should have done.

 

[Alex1234]

He can also play other gms. The Karlsson and debrincat trades are huge wins.

Dorion is interesting that way. Hits some home runs but strikes out just as often.

The Reggie Jackson of GMs?

 

[Daffy]

Sens getting Dumba today. I can feel it in my plums.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Sens getting Dumba today. I can feel it in my plums.

I hope those plums are bad

 

[Micklebot]

I hope those plums are bad

Admittedly I haven't followed Dumba close enough to have a great feel on his future, only knowing that he hasn't looked the same this year at all.

What happened for his play to drop off so much, was it purely this year or a more gradual decline? I know he had a puncture lung and broken ribs last year, those don't seem like career altering injuries though

I wonder about whether this is the player going forward, or if like Karlsson, he just needs to get/stay healthy to look like he did 4 years ago.

Is this an opportunity to buy low, extend him for a reasonable cap hit and reap the rewards, or is it more like Hamonic where the grind has broken down a once effective player and what remains just isn't the same.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

A 1st round pick, 3rd/4th and a contract balancer 'prospect' is too much to pay for a top-6 forward and a 5/6 defensive defenseman?

They got Tarasenko and Mikkola for the same price Florida paid for Ben Chiarot.

Chiarot was hilarious because the entire world came together to overrate him.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Admittedly I haven't followed Dumba close enough to have a great feel on his future, only knowing that he hasn't looked the same this year at all.

What happened for his play to drop off so much, was it purely this year or a more gradual decline? I know he had a puncture lung and broken ribs last year, those don't seem like career altering injuries though

I wonder about whether this is the player going forward, or if like Karlsson, he just needs to get/stay healthy to look like he did 4 years ago.

Is this an opportunity to buy low, extend him for a reasonable cap hit and reap the rewards, or is it more like Hamonic where the grind has broken down a once effective player and what remains just isn't the same.

As far as I understand, the injury that precipitated his downfall was fighting M. Tkachuk in 2019 and tearing his pectoral muscle and the downfall has been gradual.

I could definitely see Dumba rebounding, I just don't see him signing for cheap. Teams are desperate for RHD and some team will have the exact same thought process as the start of your final paragraph. Some REALLY mediocre DMen have gotten money that I'm not comfortable giving to Dumba:
- Chiarot, 4 x 4.75
- Gudbranson, 4 x 4
- DeAngelo, 2 x 5
- Ristolainen, 5 x 5.1

I can't see him taking less than DeAngelo and I just wouldn't pay that. If he can be extended in the 3-4m range, I'd be happy to add him... just cant see that unfolding.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

If you think Tarasenko has more value than Duchene did in 2018/19, I don't know what to tell you.

I think tarasenko has the better name. Duchene came with some baggage in terms of his past teams . Tarasenko is like big shiny scorer. Who has a cup

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Chiarot was hilarious because the entire world came together to overrate him.

Chiarot isn't as bad as some say, he's a decent 5 who can play up in the lineup... but I dont think the difference between him and a guy like Jan Ruuta is big.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Chiarot isn't as bad as some say, he's a decent 5 who can play up in the lineup... but I dont think the difference between him and a guy like Jan Ruuta is big.

You don’t pay a big price in a trade for a decent 5.

You also should give decent 5s big contracts.

 

[Micklebot]

As far as I understand, the injury that precipitated his downfall was fighting M. Tkachuk in 2019 and tearing his pectoral muscle and the downfall has been gradual.

I could definitely see Dumba rebounding, I just don't see him signing for cheap. Teams are desperate for RHD and some team will have the exact same thought process as the start of your final paragraph. Some REALLY mediocre DMen have gotten money that I'm not comfortable giving to Dumba:
- Chiarot, 4 x 4.75
- Gudbranson, 4 x 4
- DeAngelo, 2 x 5
- Ristolainen, 5 x 5.1

I can't see him taking less than DeAngelo and I just wouldn't pay that. If he can be extended in the 3-4m range, I'd be happy to add him... just cant see that unfolding.

For what it's worth, I find a lot of the guys that get overpaid in the eyes of fans are the really big guys, Chiarot, Gudbranson, Ristolainen all fit the mold. DeAngelo is a huge pts producer, and was coming off a 65pts pace and his flaws were hidden in a Carolina system so again I don't think he's a comparable for Dumba who is struggling and has been plagued by injuries.

I see Dumba's situation closer to Hamonic, coveted top 4 D for years, had to take less when his play fell off around contract time. That said, Hamonic was a touch older and had the Covid thing hanging over his head I think.

Time will tell I suppose, I agree with you that 3-4 range is where I'd top out for him though.

 

[Micklebot]

You don’t pay a big price in a trade for a decent 5.

You also should give decent 5s big contracts.

I mean, he compared him to Rutta, so the assumption is a similar contract of 2.75x3 adjusted for however much you think Chariot is better would be fair.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

You don’t pay a big price in a trade for a decent 5.

You also should give decent 5s big contracts.

I agree, I just listed him as a mediocre player who is paid way too much. Just pointing to the middle ground between people who say oh, he's an awesome top 4 guy and the others who call him one of the worst DMen in the league.

Chiarot is a guy you pay a 2nd round and/or 2.5-3.25m per year for.

For what it's worth, I find a lot of the guys that get overpaid in the eyes of fans are the really big guys, Chiarot, Gudbranson, Ristolainen all fit the mold. DeAngelo is a huge pts producer, and was coming off a 65pts pace and his flaws were hidden in a Carolina system so again I don't think he's a comparable for Dumba who is struggling and has been plagued by injuries.

I see Dumba's situation closer to Hamonic, coveted top 4 D for years, had to take less when his play fell off around contract time. That said, Hamonic was a touch older and had the Covid thing hanging over his head I think.

Time will tell I suppose, I agree with you that 3-4 range is where I'd top out for him though.

I think Hamonic is a bit of a unique case in that he has a long history of being very picky about where he plays/wanting to play in Western Canada. Not to mention Dumba has much more offensive cache. Plus, as you mentioned, the Covid thing.

Also, while you are right that 3/4 are big DMen, 3/4 are also RHD and the 4th has played some RD. Big guys get overpaid... but so do RHD.

I don't hate Dumba, I think he has a chance of being a #4 again, I just dont see a world in which his salary wants and what we can afford to pay him jive.