Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals PART XXXXX

[HSF]

Just listened to the Ray and Dregs podcast from a few days ago and there was some pretty interesting stuff said about Debrincat...

According to Dreger, there is 'a little bit of heat developing around Debrincat, similar to Pierre-Luc Dubois in Winnipeg'. Apparently there is a perception that he's not interested in sticking around in Ottawa.

How wild is it that the Sens have still yet to have any sort of substantive talks with his agent? I feel like I can see where this is headed, and it's probably Debrincat just accepting his 9M QO and walking himself to the market next summer.

Not that wild when you consider who our GM is. Some reason other teams can get contracts done right after a trade....see stone and Horvat but for Ottawa its always a wait and see approach.

The only saving grace would be if a new GM comes into place early summer and is able to convince DBC to stay. I think having a vet GM would help

 

[SensFan1010]

Id be willing to give Debrincaat 8.5x8, might be a bit of an overpayment but its not easy to come by a winger who can score like he can and we need success now not in years to come. I think the management knows there under fire rn and will do whatever it takes to sign this guy long term.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Debrincat has been way too inconsistent for me to give him the big, longterm money he is likely looking for.

His season can be broken down as such:

5g 14pts -6 in 18 games
8g 22pts -2 in 18 games
4g 5pts -8 in 14 games

Cat has been a + player in 12 of our 50 games, and has been a -2 or worse 7 times - totalling -18 over these games. Over 50% of his points (21 out of 41) have been on the PP. He's 4th on the team in goals, 5th in points, and 2nd last in +/-.

Is he a very good, unique, valuable player? Absolutely. Do I want to retain him? Absolutely. Would it hurt to trade him without receiving an impact player in return? Absolutely.

Should he be our highest paid player? Absolutely not.

Id be willing to give Debrincaat 8.5x8, might be a bit of an overpayment but its not easy to come by a winger who can score like he can and we need success now not in years to come. I think the management knows there under fire rn and will do whatever it takes to sign this guy long term.

He is our #4 winger in pts, #3 in goals, and #7 our of 8 in +/-. 2nd in TOI, 2nd in PP TOI.

 

[HSF]

Debrincat has been way too inconsistent for me to give him the big, longterm money he is likely looking for.

His season can be broken down as such:

5g 14pts -6 in 18 games
8g 22pts -2 in 18 games
4g 5pts -8 in 14 games

Cat has been a + player in 12 of our 50 games, and has been a -2 or worse 7 times - totalling -18 over these games. Over 50% of his points (21 out of 41) have been on the PP. He's 4th on the team in goals, 5th in points, and 2nd last in +/-.

Is he a very good, unique, valuable player? Absolutely. Do I want to retain him? Absolutely. Would it hurt to trade him without receiving an impact player in return? Absolutely.

Should he be our highest paid player? Absolutely not.


He is our #4 winger in pts, #3 in goals, and #7 our of 8 in +/-. 2nd in TOI, 2nd in PP TOI.

We should really be looking at his whole body of work and not just the small sample size of him playing here with a poor coaching staff

I would take the gamble of signing him and letting him figure it out under a new coach. Giroux is someone who won't be here longterm so that winger money will drop

 

[Big Muddy]

Id be willing to give Debrincaat 8.5x8, might be a bit of an overpayment but its not easy to come by a winger who can score like he can and we need success now not in years to come. I think the management knows there under fire rn and will do whatever it takes to sign this guy long term.

I would think relative to other positions, it's actually easier to acquire a good winger. For example, it's much harder to acquire a good RD.

Debrincat is 81st in the league in points, and 67th in goals with 7 of his 17 goals scored on the PP.

He's 5th in scoring even on our own team.

I could see why it would be difficult decision if Debrincat wants Brady or Stutzle money. Based on his play, a sub $8 m contract seems more in line with his production.

And, I don't understand why people talk about money coming off the books 2+ years from now when the ($83.5 m) cap crunch is next season. The Senators can make the cap work while addressing other needs even if they resign Debrincat, but I think it will be interesting to see how they prioritize and distribute the available cap.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

Debrincat has been way too inconsistent for me to give him the big, longterm money he is likely looking for.

His season can be broken down as such:

5g 14pts -6 in 18 games
8g 22pts -2 in 18 games
4g 5pts -8 in 14 games

Cat has been a + player in 12 of our 50 games, and has been a -2 or worse 7 times - totalling -18 over these games. Over 50% of his points (21 out of 41) have been on the PP. He's 4th on the team in goals, 5th in points, and 2nd last in +/-.

Is he a very good, unique, valuable player? Absolutely. Do I want to retain him? Absolutely. Would it hurt to trade him without receiving an impact player in return? Absolutely.

Should he be our highest paid player? Absolutely not.


He is our #4 winger in pts, #3 in goals, and #7 our of 8 in +/-. 2nd in TOI, 2nd in PP TOI.

It's pretty safe to assume his current numbers aren't reflective of his progression as a whole so why use them exclusively to justify his next contract?

I have no doubt he can get back to a 35-40 goal player if he remains in Ottawa, playing with Stutzle or Norris. No doubt he isn't a defensive stalwart but you can't expect every player to excel at both ends.

 

[Tuna99]

Just listened to the Ray and Dregs podcast from a few days ago and there was some pretty interesting stuff said about Debrincat...

According to Dreger, there is 'a little bit of heat developing around Debrincat, similar to Pierre-Luc Dubois in Winnipeg'. Apparently there is a perception that he's not interested in sticking around in Ottawa.

How wild is it that the Sens have still yet to have any sort of substantive talks with his agent? I feel like I can see where this is headed, and it's probably Debrincat just accepting his 9M QO and walking himself to the market next summer.

Matt Duchene vibes

 

[Alex1234]

What you posted that I responded to was that this might be taking time because of back and forth between prosecutors and defence attorneys.

Again I'm not a justice expert but what you're suggesting isn't really plausible. Sure the players can have lawyers making statements on their behalf but that's not holding up charges being laid. Charges being laid are at the sole discretion of the crown. Once those charges are laid, the crown provides defense attorneys with disclosure which informs the defense strategy.

But right now, no, defense attorneys and the crown are not negotiating whether charges should be laid which I believe was the implication you made. If it wasn't, my bad

Never said that
Discussions happen all the time
I know how it works don't worry

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

It's pretty safe to assume his current numbers aren't reflective of his progression as a whole so why use them exclusively to justify his next contract?

I have no doubt he can get back to a 35-40 goal player if he remains in Ottawa, playing with Stutzle or Norris. No doubt he isn't a defensive stalwart but you can't expect every player to excel at both ends.

I have no doubt about that either, but I do think he is a guy who will fade for stretches (as most guys do) and I don't think there is much chance of him being our best or even 2nd best player for any significant stretch of his contract.

He's an amazing player, there are other teams where I can justify paying him $8.5m+ without much hesitation, but I still definitely hesitate as to whether it makes sense for us. I could even see Debrincat aiming for a shorter-term deal (2-4yrs) around his QO... he would finish that stretch firmly in his prime, super established, and the cap landscape will be far more favourable than it is now. He's been a super durable player and he's bet on himself his entire career.

I would love to retain Debrincat, but its really hard for me to see how we can pay him what he wants, deserves, and can get.

 

[TonySoprano11]

Seven years ago to the day we traded for Dion Phaneuf. How do you think that turned out for us?

Ottawa acquired defenceman Dion Phaneuf, forward Matt Frattin, forward Casey Bailey, forward Ryan Rupert and defence prospect Cody Donaghey from the Toronto Maple Leafs in exchange for defenceman Jared Cowen, forwards Colin Greening, Milan Michalek and Tobias Lindberg as well as Ottawa’s second-round pick in the 2017 NHL Draft.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Yes it certainly does help his point, but the problem is that DeBrincat hasn't performed in a way that helps his contract status. He simply hasn't put the biscuit in the basket. If he had another 10 goals, and he damn near could just on converting half of his blatant misses, we'd probably have several more points and we'd really be in the thick of a race.

I agree, and I think he’s a guy that should be paid in line with the rest of the guys on the team, not his QO.

But he plays a solid all around game, and has great hands and motor. I think he was gripping the stick too tight early, perhaps because he takes a while to adjust to big moves, but either way, at least you can see how the guy scored 40 multiple times, and could again.

I also don’t see him as a guy who would fade in the playoffs or become a perimeter player.

In the end he has to want to stay, and the price has to fit with Stu and Brady.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I agree the Senators should trade Debrinca if he is not willing to sign a long term contract at about $8M AAV.

However I have doubts that Dorion would do that given his approach with Stone. Dorion can be played.

I think he learned his lesson there (hope). Besides, Stone was different. He was a long time player who made overtures about wanting to stay right up until the end.

With DBC you have to figure that they know or will know sooner than later if he wants to stay, and if he does, I don’t see why the contract would be that big a sticking point unless DBC really thinks he’s a 9million dollar player. If he doesn’t, the there is absolutely no reason for him to be on the roster on opening night, and other teams would be happier to have a crack at him before he signs his QO.

Anyways, comes down to management and DBC’s camp obviously, but I have faith that they will get it sorted properly.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Seven years ago to the day we traded for Dion Phaneuf. How do you think that turned out for us?

Ottawa acquired defenceman Dion Phaneuf, forward Matt Frattin, forward Casey Bailey, forward Ryan Rupert and defence prospect Cody Donaghey from the Toronto Maple Leafs in exchange for defenceman Jared Cowen, forwards Colin Greening, Milan Michalek and Tobias Lindberg as well as Ottawa’s second-round pick in the 2017 NHL Draft.

Murray credited Dorion with orchestrating that one. I hated it then and I hate it now, even though we had the run with him. One of my least favorite Senators trades ever despite the short term reward.

I think you can trace the need to rebuild back to this trade as the jumping point even though Melnyk's financial decisions were probably going to stop anything in its tracks anways. We should have weathered the short term money instead imo and looked for another D solution.

And honorable mention to the very similar type deal for Zaitsev/Brown. Terrible in hindsight considering we moved Brown for a 2nd and were stuck with Zaitsev after all that. A 2nd that probably needs to be used this summer to shed the Zaitsev contract. We should have just let Ceci walk.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

I agree the Senators should trade Debrinca if he is not willing to sign a long term contract at about $8M AAV.

However I have doubts that Dorion would do that given his approach with Stone. Dorion can be played.

He can also play other gms. The Karlsson and debrincat trades are huge wins.

Dorion is interesting that way. Hits some home runs but strikes out just as often.

 

[aragorn]

He can also play other gms. The Karlsson and debrincat trades are huge wins.

Dorion is interesting that way. Hits some home runs but strikes out just as often.

Doesn't every GM?

 

[Tuna99]

The trade return for Tarasenko
And seeing what Stone and Duchene got - BRUTAL

 

[bicboi64]

That's a very good trade for the Blues. The Rangers go as far as Shesterkin can carry them unless Gallant stops butchering the development of any young forward.

Blues might try to move Barbashev, Acciari & O'Rielly but if they want to keep O'Rielly who is wants to stay, maybe they do a retool and move a bigger piece. I'd love to try and get Parayko off them. Yes he's 29 and has 7 seasons left on his deal, but he's a legitimate top 4RD and would be our 2nd best defender. We'd have our top 4 locked up long term and wouldn't have to rely on bargain bin or declining vets in our d core.

 

[stempniaksen]

The trade return for Tarasenko
And seeing what Stone and Duchene got - BRUTAL

The Stone trade is what it is at this point, not going to re-hash that one.

How is this any better than what the Sens got for Duchene though?

#19 overall => likely pick in the 20's
Davidsson = H. Skinner
Abramov > Blais (VA had perceived upside, Blais is a pure dump)
Nothing < 4th

Throw in the fact the Blues had to retain 50% on Tank and throw in a guy like Mikkola.

It's easy to look back with the power of hindsight because the pieces Ottawa got back are either out of the org or trending in the wrong direction, but on value alone I'm not seeing how the Rangers did better, let alone significantly better.

 

[Ouroboros]

The trade return for Tarasenko
And seeing what Stone and Duchene got - BRUTAL

Doesn't look like a better deal than Dorion got for Duchene.

The Blues had to eat 50% of Tarasenko's salary, send an NHL defenseman along with him, and take back a cap dump just to get a late 1st, a 3rd and a 'prospect' who has spent half of his pro career in East Coast league.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

Doesn't every GM?

Probably to some extent. But Dorion has definitely been one of the more active GMs since he's taken the reigns. In part because of Ottawa's position, going from "contenders" to sellers almost overnight. Then rebuilding, and starting to go for it again. But also because he just seems to like tinkering. I think if someone took the time to put together some kind of chart including all the GMs and the trades they've made, he'd be near the top of that list.

He's polarizing for a reason.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Probably to some extent. But Dorion has definitely been one of the more active GMs since he's taken the reigns. In part because of Ottawa's position, going from "contenders" to sellers almost overnight. Then rebuilding, and starting to go for it again. But also because he just seems to like tinkering. I think if someone took the time to put together some kind of chart including all the GMs and the trades they've made, he'd be near the top of that list.

He's polarizing for a reason.

And because of what you've described, he's got a lot of big high profile player deals on his resume that a lot of other GM's otherwise wouldn't. Started off with a bang with Zibanejad and has had a lot of big players in and out since then.

He's also credited by Murray for the Phaneuf deal, so between that one, the Duchene acquisition, the Karlsson trade and the Zaitsev/Brown deal, he seems to have quite a few deals with a lot of pieces involved too.

Trading star players and having complicated deals with a lot of moving parts are bound to divide opinions.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

How the f*** did St-Louis get that much for an impending UFA?

Brutal trade for the Rangers even though I do believe Tarasenko will fit in well on their top-6, but that's just way too high a price to pay for what as of now is a rental.

 

[Ouroboros]

How the f*** did St-Louis get that much for an impending UFA?

Brutal trade for the Rangers even though I do believe Tarasenko will fit in well on their top-6, but that's just way too high a price to pay for what as of now is a rental.

A 1st round pick, 3rd/4th and a contract balancer 'prospect' is too much to pay for a top-6 forward and a 5/6 defensive defenseman?

They got Tarasenko and Mikkola for the same price Florida paid for Ben Chiarot.

 

[Micklebot]

How the f*** did St-Louis get that much for an impending UFA?

Brutal trade for the Rangers even though I do believe Tarasenko will fit in well on their top-6, but that's just way too high a price to pay for what as of now is a rental.

I'm not seeing how that's a huge haul, am I missing something?

 

[Tuna99]

The Stone trade is what it is at this point, not going to re-hash that one.

How is this any better than what the Sens got for Duchene though?

#19 overall => likely pick in the 20's
Davidsson = H. Skinner
Abramov > Blais (VA had perceived upside, Blais is a pure dump)
Nothing < 4th

Throw in the fact the Blues had to retain 50% on Tank and throw in a guy like Mikkola.

It's easy to look back with the power of hindsight because the pieces Ottawa got back are either out of the org or trending in the wrong direction, but on value alone I'm not seeing how the Rangers did better, let alone significantly better.

We trade Duchene when he was 27, 58 points in 50 games with 27 goals. And speed, and not a headache like Tarasenko and he’s a Center. And this decay is 10% better then the Lassi Thomson draft which was considered a very weak draft so teams would be more motivated to dump their 1st.

Anyways, didn’t like the Fuch trade coming in or going out.