Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals PART XXXXX

[Cosmix]

Well, there's a decent chance he gets a third Norris this year. That pretty much guarantees a HHoF induction of it isn't already guaranteed regardless of what he does going forward.

If he keeps up his pace this year, he'll be one of only a handful of Dmen to hit 100 pts, and alone with Orr as the only ones to do it on a team with no other 100pts player (Esposito had 99, Meier is on pace for 77). I could be wrong, but I think he'd also be the only Dman aside from Orr to lead the league in ES pts too.

In terms of personal accomplishments, he's right up there with some greats. If he adds some team success all bets are off (hard not to wonder what his legacy would already look like had we beat the Pens)

Karlson was already robbed a third Norris trophy.

 

[JD1]

Karlsson falls in that category of the most skilled, arguably the best single seasons, definitely offensively, but his accomplishments don't equal Alfie or Chara.

If he goes to a contender, keeps up this performance, gets his 1000 points, another Norris, etc., then he'll be there with them. And shut up everyone that hated on him for not gifting Melnyk a discount.

Well, he won 2 Norris trophies while in Ottawa. On a personal level, imo that's the single most impressive player feat in the history of the franchise.

Is there a DMan out there with 2 Norris trophies that isn't in the hall?

Daniel Alfredsson was a good player. He eventually got in the hall, but there really wasn't ever a point in time where he was considered the best but being the best is a title Karlsson held for a few years.

 

[JD1]

Talent is talent. If I have to win a game give me the three prior mentioned players. And likely give me Alfie after chara and Hossa. Karlsson is a greatly talented player. But. Chara and hossa are chara and hossa. I mean….

What did Hossa ever win without more prominent players playing in front of him? He had a long and healthy career and eventually settled into a situation where he had Kane, Toews and Keith playing in front of him

 

[Tuna99]

NHL: Pierre Dorion, DJ Smith, the stink that they have left behind

Ott: Tyler Ennis, Scott Gomez, Mikel Bodker, one of Cedric Paquette’s dogs.

 

[GCK]

I'm focusing solely on their ability win hockey games.

Alfredsson was my favourite Senator and Chara and Hossa not far behind.

But in terms of pure hockey talent, making their teammates better, and winning their teams game, they do not hold up to EK. Karlsson is in a higher tier. Even amongst HoF players pool, Karlsson is a special talent.

Team accomplishments are a lazy way to look at it.

There is no world where Alfie, EK or Hossa hold a candle to Chara in helping a team win.

 

[DueDiligence]

I'm focusing solely on their ability win hockey games.

Alfredsson was my favourite Senator and Chara and Hossa not far behind.

But in terms of pure hockey talent, making their teammates better, and winning their teams game, they do not hold up to EK. Karlsson is in a higher tier. Even amongst HoF players pool, Karlsson is a special talent.

Team accomplishments are a lazy way to look at it.

So Karlsson an elite offensive talent but average in his own end is better than Chara who was an elite defensive talent, elite physically and above average offensively? Chara is on of the few defensemen you would put out on the ice in every situation at the end of the game.
And plus/minus, though it is discounted by some people, it still worth noting that Karlsson is a career minus 79 and Chara is a career plus 301.

 

[guyzeur]

So Karlsson an elite offensive talent but average in his own end is better than Chara who was an elite defensive talent, elite physically and above average offensively? Chara is on of the few defensemen you would put out on the ice in every situation at the end of the game.
And plus/minus, though it is discounted by some people, it still worth noting that Karlsson is a career minus 79 and Chara is a career plus 301.

that could be argue. What is Chara plus minus when not playing for neither Boston nor Ottawa? Both were really good when Chara was playing for them.

 

[Micklebot]

So Karlsson an elite offensive talent but average in his own end is better than Chara who was an elite defensive talent, elite physically and above average offensively? Chara is on of the few defensemen you would put out on the ice in every situation at the end of the game.
And plus/minus, though it is discounted by some people, it still worth noting that Karlsson is a career minus 79 and Chara is a career plus 301.

Plus minus isn't worth noting, it's more a measure of the team the player is on than the player. Chara was -27 with the islanders and +30 the next year after joining the sens. When he left a strong Sens team for a rebuilding Bruins team he went from +17 to minus 21 overnight. Play lots of mins on a bad team, rack up minuses. Play lots of mins on good teams, rack up the pluses.

People discount plus minus for a reason, particularly when presented as you did.

 

[Que]

Debating Chara v.s EK is akin to splitting hairs or comparing apples to oranges.

It really comes down to the system the team plays and the players around them.

Hockey trade stuff, you think EK and Brady talked it out during the all-star weekend? I can’t imagine a reality where they didn’t at least spend 5 minutes musing about the idea.

 

[Sun God Nika]

Debating Chara v.s EK is akin to splitting hairs or comparing apples to oranges.

It really comes down to the system the team plays and the players around them.

Hockey trade stuff, you think EK and Brady talked it out during the all-star weekend? I can’t imagine a reality where they didn’t at least spend 5 minutes musing about the idea.

I don’t think EK needs much convincing , he wants to come back to ottawa or at the very least will waive his NMC for Ottawa. The number 1 problem with it is the salary cap and what core piece we would have to move out to accommodate him. I just don’t see it happening for that reason.


Also I love finally being able to bitch about the cap hampering us. If your reading this Euge F U

 

[DueDiligence]

Plus minus isn't worth noting, it's more a measure of the team the player is on than the player. Chara was -27 with the islanders and +30 the next year after joining the sens. When he left a strong Sens team for a rebuilding Bruins team he went from +17 to minus 21 overnight. Play lots of mins on a bad team, rack up minuses. Play lots of mins on good teams, rack up the pluses.

People discount plus minus for a reason, particularly when presented as you did.

Yes but a plus/minus difference of almost 400 goals over 2 careers does indicate something about the 2 players.

Both were really good when Chara was playing for them.

Maybe Chara had a lot to do with that???

 

[Micklebot]

Yes but a plus/minus difference of almost 400 goals over 2 careers does indicate something about the 2 players.


Maybe Chara had a lot to do with that???

It indicates they played on different teams.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

I wouldnt mind picking up Adam Erne.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

What did Hossa ever win without more prominent players playing in front of him? He had a long and healthy career and eventually settled into a situation where he had Kane, Toews and Keith playing in front of him

And even before that there were zero questions about his play lol. Zero.

Even chara won with great players. I’m not saying they won by themselves.

And I’m not saying they are better than karlsson because they won cups and he didn’t. That is not what I’m saying

 

[Sun God Nika]

Put me on team Saaros / Demko

I know Matt Murray trade will trigger PTSD but Murray never had regularly season success and only got hot at the right times behind prime Malkin and Crosby .

Demko and especially Saaros are proven all world athletes that just by their presence alone should shave off around 5% of goals against

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Well, he won 2 Norris trophies while in Ottawa. On a personal level, imo that's the single most impressive player feat in the history of the franchise.

Is there a DMan out there with 2 Norris trophies that isn't in the hall?

Daniel Alfredsson was a good player. He eventually got in the hall, but there really wasn't ever a point in time where he was considered the best but being the best is a title Karlsson held for a few years.

Doesn't look like it at first glance at the list. Karlsson is the only play to win more than one since Lidstrom was playing. If he wins another this year, he'll have 3. He should have Doughty's too. Definitely an incredible feat.

Sometimes I think we just forget how insanely good he was the further we get from his seasons in Ottawa.

 

[Micklebot]

Doesn't look like it at first glance at the list. Karlsson is the only play to win more than one since Lidstrom was playing. If he wins another this year, he'll have 3. He should have Doughty's too. Definitely an incredible feat.

Sometimes I think we just forget how insanely good he was the further we get from his seasons in Ottawa.

Keith has two around the same years as Karlsson won his, Lidstrom was still playing when both won their first and had retired for their 2nd.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Keith has two around the same years as Karlsson won his, Lidstrom was still playing when both won their first and had retired for their 2nd.

You are right, not sure how I missed that before. I guess he'll have to get his 3rd and then we can say he's the first since Lidstrom.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Chara and Karlsson are without a doubt the two best individual players to ever play on this team. They were unanimous top 3 players at their position, and top 10 (if not top 5) players in the league, for a period of time. Incredibly unique, rare players.

They'll both (probably) go down as ~top 15 players of all-time at their position.

Alfredsson and Hossa were fantastic, and both are very worthy HHOFers. But neither guy was ever seen as a top 10 player in the league, let alone top 15 at their position of all time.

Chara
Karlsson
---
Alfredsson
Hossa
---
Spezza
Heatley
Yashin

Those would be the tiers.

 

[Cosmix]

Chara and Karlsson are without a doubt the two best individual players to ever play on this team. They were unanimous top 3 players at their position, and top 10 (if not top 5) players in the league, for a period of time. Incredibly unique, rare players.

They'll both (probably) go down as ~top 15 players of all-time at their position.

Alfredsson and Hossa were fantastic, and both are very worthy HHOFers. But neither guy was ever seen as a top 10 player in the league, let alone top 15 at their position of all time.

Chara
Karlsson
---
Alfredsson
Hossa
---
Spezza
Heatley
Yashin

Those would be the tiers.

Lots of "tears" as we did not keep them for their entire careers.

 

[JD1]

And even before that there were zero questions about his play lol. Zero.

Even chara won with great players. I’m not saying they won by themselves.

And I’m not saying they are better than karlsson because they won cups and he didn’t. That is not what I’m saying

Well, you're going to have to speak for yourself on this one. In my view, all those early exits in the 2000s kinda tainted a couple of players for me an Hossa was one of them.

 

[GCK]

Well, you're going to have to speak for yourself on this one. In my view, all those early exits in the 2000s kinda tainted a couple of players for me an Hossa was one of them.

Hossa was Batherson’s age when Muckler traded him. pre 2003 hockey was a different beast and players hit their primes at on older age. 30 points in 37 playoff games in his last 3 seasons with the Sens is impressive.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Well, you're going to have to speak for yourself on this one. In my view, all those early exits in the 2000s kinda tainted a couple of players for me an Hossa was one of them.

Okay. That’s fine and fair. Did it also taint alfie?

Hossa was Batherson’s age when Muckler traded him. pre 2003 hockey was a different beast and players hit their primes at on older age. 30 points in 37 playoff games in his last 3 seasons with the Sens is impressive.

And that’s in martins defensive system. While also being a two way monster.

Then he went to Atlanta and legit babysat his line mates defensively and still put up 100+ point seasons.

Shame he even needs defending if we wouldn’t have traded him his number is definitely in the rafters and so is charts and likely two Stanley cup banners maybe more.

Because while heatley was demanding a trade and redden was falling off a cliff those two were continuing to put up monster seasons. Would have extended our window by almost another decade lol.

Two players like that along with Alfie. Non injury prone. And stayed great for nearly two decades lmao. It’s hilarious we didn’t keep them. Imagine being a juggernaut from 03 to like 2013.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Chara and Karlsson are without a doubt the two best individual players to ever play on this team. They were unanimous top 3 players at their position, and top 10 (if not top 5) players in the league, for a period of time. Incredibly unique, rare players.

They'll both (probably) go down as ~top 15 players of all-time at their position.

Alfredsson and Hossa were fantastic, and both are very worthy HHOFers. But neither guy was ever seen as a top 10 player in the league, let alone top 15 at their position of all time.

Chara
Karlsson
---
Alfredsson
Hossa
---
Spezza
Heatley
Yashin

Those would be the tiers.

Alfie and hossa were no doubt top 10 players in their position at one point or another lol.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

Alfie and hossa were no doubt top 10 players in their position at one point or another lol.

Probably even top-5

This huge love for Chara is a little weird honestly.

I would put him tier 3, not next to Karlsson.