Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals PART XXXXII

[Puikiou]

Still don't understand how and why we didn't trade for Marino... Especially with the new AGM coming from Pittsburgh. He'll be this year's Devon Toews with less offense and NJ only paid Ty Smith (who is horrible defensively) + 2nd for him... within the same division.

Big NO to trading Pinto or Greig for 3 years of Chychrun. Can't re-sign him for 8 x 8 after his current deal and let's not pretend that Chychrun is some defensive stalwart. He's VERY questionable in his own zone at times. A less physical, more offensive Trouba with similar IQ. Nevermind the fact that he's injury prone (currently healing from a broken ankle, several concussions, etc.).

It's a recipe for a disaster if he costs more to acquire than a 1st + 2/3 of Brännström/Järventie type prospects.

 

[Cosmix]

This is a common misconception held by fans and media.

League rank

GF 26th
GA 22nd

Change required to rank 16th (league median)

GF 26 more goals
GA 15 fewer goals

Change required to rank 10th in the league

GF 46 more goals
GA 32 fewer goals

Scoring was the bigger issue statistically last season.

I agree; however, improvement in both GA and GF are required to become a playoff team.

 

[Dan Patrick]

Still don't understand how and why we didn't trade for Marino... Especially with the new AGM coming from Pittsburgh. He'll be this year's Devon Toews with less offense and NJ only paid Ty Smith (who is horrible defensively) + 2nd for him... within the same division.

Pretty simple explanation if we were in on Marino we likely offered something along the lines of Brannstrom+2nd and NJ offered Smith+2nd and Pit liked the former offer better. Maybe they asked us to bump our pick up to a 1st or add something else to make up the difference and we said no and so they go with NJ's offer. I imagine most deals go something like this, trades don't happen in a vacuum and just because you want a player or go after a guy doesn't mean you won't be out bid or out negotiated.

 

[Micklebot]

This is a common misconception held by fans and media.

League rank

GF 26th
GA 22nd

Change required to rank 16th (league median)

GF 26 more goals
GA 15 fewer goals

Change required to rank 10th in the league

GF 46 more goals
GA 32 fewer goals

Scoring was the bigger issue statistically last season.

It's funny, because you look at things like xGF (19th) or SCF (19th) and we do better offensively, 26th in xGA/60 and SCA/60 all situations)

Now, is that because we got good goaltending, or our shooters suck? I think the impression that we need more help defending than on offence comes from watching us play rather than stats watching, but that's just my personal opinion, and I could be wrong, maybe people get it from the fancy stats...

 

[bicboi64]

Pretty simple explanation if we were in on Marino we likely offered something along the lines of Brannstrom+2nd and NJ offered Smith+2nd and Pit liked the former offer better. Maybe they asked us to bump our pick up to a 1st or add something else to make up the difference and we said no and so they go with NJ's offer. I imagine most deals go something like this, trades don't happen in a vacuum and just because you want a player or go after a guy doesn't mean you won't be out bid or out negotiated.

Not that it matters at all, but I'd have offered Brannstrom and a prospect like JBD or Lassi and hope that would have been enough unless the Pens were really high on Smith. Marino would look mighty good in our blueline right now

 

[Dan Patrick]

Not that it matters at all, but I'd have offered Brannstrom and a prospect like JBD or Lassi and hope that would have been enough unless the Pens were really high on Smith. Marino would look mighty good in our blueline right now

I think i would have rather added futures to a hypothetical deal than guys who are close to being NHL starters. I feel like as a GM one of the hardest lines to walk is not overpaying and especially if you dont have a great relationship trading with a particular GM then you might only have one shot to make an offer for a player you want. Your job is to take shots at players you want without insulting the other team and also while not giving away assets you didnt need to. I personally think Ron Hextal is kind of an idiot when it comes to being a GM and very easily see a situation where he got primary offers from NJ and Ott and just went with the one he liked most. No trying to start a bidding war just take the better of the two first offers and move on with your day.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

On Saturday during intermission Friedman also said that Arizona had asked for Pinto and that Dorion was in no way interested in giving Pinto up. So, is this something that Friedman said on Sunday? Can you post a link?

No i think that was all part of the same quote. Ottawa is interested. It continues to be discussed. Arizona initial ask is pinto ottawa not down for that

 

[TeamRenzo]

I hope the Sens target dmen other than JC, he's a good player but their ask is sky high and we have no business trading our blue-chip prospects.

 

[aragorn]

I'm not sure Ott needs Chychrun although he would be a good add, what I don't like is what they would have to give up to get him. There are a few prospects/players I would trade for him & a number I would not. I would not trade Formenton, Pinto, Kleven, Kastelic, JBD or Sanderson. I would consider moving in a package any of Jarventie, Joseph, Kelly, Thomson, Brannstrom, Crookshank or Lodin plus a pick or two. But I don't think they need him at this time especially if Sanderson emerges as a potential star which it looks like he could. They just need to find the right partner for him & that could be JBD.

 

[Micklebot]

Still don't understand how and why we didn't trade for Marino... Especially with the new AGM coming from Pittsburgh

Have you considered that our AGM's familiarity with Marino might actually be part of why we didn't trade for him?

Marino looked like a good fit to me but not one I'm losing sleep over

 

[dumbdick]

I don't want any part of Chychryn at the prices being thrown around here. I certainly don't want to sell low on guys like Pinto Greig or Boucher.

Too many forward stars is a great problem to have.

Let them develop into studs buried on the 3rd line. Then lock them up to cheapish deals based on their low usage. THEN you promote them up the lineup.

If we had brought in some stopgap top 6 UFAs at centre the last two years, Norris would be a 20 goal 3C that we just locked up to term at $4.5M. Then we could have unloaded those stopgap assets for futures, promoted Norris up the roster and watched him hit 40 on one of the best deals in the league.

We've got the depth to bring up Formenton, Greig, Pinto and Boucher exactly the same way.

Overload on depth, bury everyone a bit further down the lineup than they belong, and just watch the dividends accrue.

 

[Cosmix]

I'm not sure Ott needs Chychrun although he would be a good add, what I don't like is what they would have to give up to get him. There are a few prospects/players I would trade for him & a number I would not. I would not trade Formenton, Pinto, Kleven, Kastelic, JBD or Sanderson. I would consider moving in a package any of Jarventie, Joseph, Kelly, Thomson, Brannstrom, Crookshank or Lodin plus a pick or two. But I don't think they need him at this time especially if Sanderson emerges as a potential star which it looks like he could. They just need to find the right partner for him & that could be JBD.

I agree with trading Jarventie, Kelly, Brannstrom, Crookshank or Lodin; however, I want to retain Joseph, & Thomson in addition to your retentions of Formenton, Pinto, Kleven, JBD and Sanderson. If Arizona definitely wants our first round pick in 2023, I would not be adding much more than 1 or 2 of those current assets.

 

[Bevans]

I don't want any part of Chychryn at the prices being thrown around here. I certainly don't want to sell low on guys like Pinto Greig or Boucher.

Too many forward stars is a great problem to have.

Let them develop into studs buried on the 3rd line. Then lock them up to cheapish deals based on their low usage. THEN you promote them up the lineup.

If we had brought in some stopgap top 6 UFAs at centre the last two years, Norris would be a 20 goal 3C that we just locked up to term at $4.5M. Then we could have unloaded those stopgap assets for futures, promoted Norris up the roster and watched him hit 40 on one of the best deals in the league.

We've got the depth to bring up Formenton, Greig, Pinto and Boucher exactly the same way.

Overload on depth, bury everyone a bit further down the lineup than they belong, and just watch the dividends accrue.

Counter argument. Norris plays down the line up. Ottawa doesn't realize how good he is. Trades him for veteran help. He becomes NYR 1C.

 

[Wallet Inspector]

Still don't understand how and why we didn't trade for Marino... Especially with the new AGM coming from Pittsburgh. He'll be this year's Devon Toews with less offense and NJ only paid Ty Smith (who is horrible defensively) + 2nd for him... within the same division.

Big NO to trading Pinto or Greig for 3 years of Chychrun. Can't re-sign him for 8 x 8 after his current deal and let's not pretend that Chychrun is some defensive stalwart. He's VERY questionable in his own zone at times. A less physical, more offensive Trouba with similar IQ. Nevermind the fact that he's injury prone (currently healing from a broken ankle, several concussions, etc.).

It's a recipe for a disaster if he costs more to acquire than a 1st + 2/3 of Brännström/Järventie type prospects.

Agreed on Marino but it's possible Pittsburgh just really likes Ty Smith, and would prefer him to any of our prospects(that we'd be willing to trade anyways).

 

[GCK]

Chychrun would help us defensively, sure, but that's not his bread and butter. I don't get paying a premium for a guy who plays a very similar (but worse) game to Chabot, especially when we have Sanderson. This assumption by some that he can step in and excel at RD is way too nonchalant, too.

This ignores the fact that we've added Giroux and Debrincat... which makes it not very useful for analysis.

It was in response to what our #1 need was going into the summer being D. CJ was going on about how we need to shave 50 goals against off our total to be a playoff team, how lazy was that comment, that would put us 4th best in the league. I honestly believe the team D could be adequate to make the playoffs IF DJ and co. can get some structure implemented. I was in the wait until DJ has a decent roster to evaluate him, well the clock started ticking last week. If DJ can’t get it done take the 16M you were going to spend on Chykrun and get Trotz in here for 3 years, he’d help more than 1 single D man.

 

[JD1]

It was in response to what our #1 need was going into the summer being D. CJ was going on about how we need to shave 50 goals against off our total to be a playoff team, how lazy was that comment, that would put us 4th best in the league. I honestly believe the team D could be adequate to make the playoffs IF DJ and co. can get some structure implemented. I was in the wait until DJ has a decent roster to evaluate him, well the clock started ticking last week. If DJ can’t get it done take the 16M you were going to spend on Chykrun and get Trotz in here for 3 years, he’d help more than 1 single D man.

I agree with the stats you posted. I posted the same stats last week. 14 less goals against and we're at the league median. And we had the 13th best pk.

We had something like the 22nd best PP and need another 30 or so goals to be average.

Both need improvement but the O needs to improve more. There's probably something to be said for moving the puck out of our zone better, but the flip side to that is I'd expect our deeper forward pool to be more able to maintain possession in the O zone as opposed to the one and done we've seen so much of the last few years.

 

[bert]

I'd give up 3 firsts.

1st in 2023 (top 2 protected)
Grieg
Brannstrom

I would also give up a 2nd for them to take Zaitsev

So in total

To Ottawa
Chychrun

To Arizon
1st,
2nd
Greig,
Brannstom,
Zaitsev

Way too much. Grieg with Zaitsev and one of the d men sure. But that's it.

 

[bert]

Still don't understand how and why we didn't trade for Marino... Especially with the new AGM coming from Pittsburgh. He'll be this year's Devon Toews with less offense and NJ only paid Ty Smith (who is horrible defensively) + 2nd for him... within the same division.

Big NO to trading Pinto or Greig for 3 years of Chychrun. Can't re-sign him for 8 x 8 after his current deal and let's not pretend that Chychrun is some defensive stalwart. He's VERY questionable in his own zone at times. A less physical, more offensive Trouba with similar IQ. Nevermind the fact that he's injury prone (currently healing from a broken ankle, several concussions, etc.).

It's a recipe for a disaster if he costs more to acquire than a 1st + 2/3 of Brännström/Järventie type prospects.

I really don't think he is comparable to Trouba. Not close to as good defensively, or nearly as physical doesn't shoot right and doesn't bring captain level leadership. Trouba is actually a perfect fit here. Clearly he is not available.

I will agree Chychrun is not the right fit here. Not a natural RD and yes will price himself out. Not a natural shut down d either. That's what the sens need. He does fill a void in terms of being large/clear the front of the net and the ability to play in the top 4. But at the cost and the lack of a long term future he isn't the answer.

I really think at this point the sens need a coaching staff that is willing to just play the best players on the back end, see what they have and evaluate from thete. Thomson and JBD should play if they show better than Hamonic, Holden and Zaitsev. If this doesn't happen I think it could cost DJ his job.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

It was in response to what our #1 need was going into the summer being D. CJ was going on about how we need to shave 50 goals against off our total to be a playoff team, how lazy was that comment, that would put us 4th best in the league. I honestly believe the team D could be adequate to make the playoffs IF DJ and co. can get some structure implemented. I was in the wait until DJ has a decent roster to evaluate him, well the clock started ticking last week. If DJ can’t get it done take the 16M you were going to spend on Chykrun and get Trotz in here for 3 years, he’d help more than 1 single D man.

Thats my worry with DJ. He hasn't been able to implement a solid defensive system to offset a limited blueline.

He has the horses now to score goals. But can he get them to play stellar defense?

If he can't... time to bring in another guy

 

[Loach]

Thats my worry with DJ. He hasn't been able to implement a solid defensive system to offset a limited blueline.

He has the horses now to score goals. But can he get them to play stellar defense?

If he can't... time to bring in another guy

We brought in offensive guys to play defensive. Makes no sense.

 

[Korpse]

We brought in offensive guys to play defensive. Makes no sense.

We brought in players who can compliment the players we already have. No sense in getting defensive minded players to play along side Stutzle. Even when looking for a defensemen they have been mentioned alongside names that are capable puck movers. Ideally it is also someone who can handle their own but a competent puck mover is priority. Someone who can help move the puck forward and alone the talented players to do what makes them best. The maturation of the team defensively will take time, in the present they will be an attacking oriented team.

 

[Sens Vader]

Lets get Nic Hague

 

[GCK]

Lets get Nic Hague

Why ?

 

[Wondercarrot]

We brought in offensive guys to play defensive. Makes no sense.

You don’t think offensive guys need to play both ways, and part of a structured system on defence?
That makes no sense.

The question is wether or not DJ has a good system, or can properly get guys to play it.
Jacques Martin had a very soundly structured team that played great team defence and far from hindering offence, it allowed us to be the highest scoring team in the league. We were devastating on the counter attacks. Etc.

This isn’t the 80’s. All players who want to win are expected to play both ways, play within the defensive structure, the use their offensive genius and freelance when they have the puck.

 

[Sens Vader]

Why ?

Just thought we would be much cheaper to acquire than Chychrun , and if we're willing to play guys on their offside could be a fit

He would be someone where we can improve the defense but also not break the bank, so we can still target a RHD later on if we're in the playoff race and someone becomes available

I like his potential